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RE: Married? Married! - 8/22/2004 9:12:11 AM

Posts: 56
Joined: 6/18/2004
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I notice the discussion has changed somewhat.

Those married and yearning have this thread. I am not without sympathy for them, and in fact I am currently playing with a group of people who are married with spouses at home. As I was adopted into the group, the perameters had already been established. One guy has drifted apart from his wife. They have a poly lifestyle, and she has her own play partners, so it works out. They may get a divorce, or they may stay together for practicality.

The other guy swears his wife is beautiful and he wouldn't trade her in, but she is peaceful with his seeking the lifestyle outside and he keeps things in perspective. He always comes home.

The one submissive marriage I discovered had both spouses seeking Doms/Dommes outside. They tried Domming each other and it didn't work. I am wondering how often this actually occurs (a sub marrying a sub) It stands to reason people would find someone of their own attitude to settle down with.

I have found some great books that might start subs on the road to encouraging their wife to be Dominant. I might remind them that, as always, it is wrong to marry someone then expect them to change. Why I use the term "encouragement' as I think some women who have not realized their potential need a push in the right direction. If they are willing, that is. Again, those subs wishing BDSM can't make their wives change to Dom if they have married a genuine submissive, can they?

"Why Men Love Bitches" by Sherry Argov--good, 'Men are from Mars' type. A vanilla book but it'll pave the way

"The Inner Bitch" by Elizabeth Hilts--funny and an easy read. Another vanilla book but it'll pave the way for BDSM

"Female Domination"-Elise Sutton --very complete maybe too much for a beginner but it explains it all so well a BDSM book

"The Sexually Dominant Woman" by Lady Green-an easy read practical advice (how to tie up) good beginner book

"The Mistress Manual" by Mistress Lorelei--if she's reading this you are home free. Be prepared for bruising.

_____________________________

"I can resist everything except temptation."
--Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

(in reply to ronniferd)

RE: Married? Married! - 8/22/2004 12:19:29 PM

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From: Burlington, Ontario
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I married my first husband when I was 20, we had 2 beautiful children, but the marriage never ran smoothly, well 11 affairs on his behalf and one on mine (because he said the reason he was bedding other women was we had an open marriage - until I took him at his word) It was only after we had been divorced a few years and I had been in & out of a 3 year commonlaw marriage that we discovered by accident we were both subs, it wasn't until then that I had discovered BDSM and so had he without my knowing it. When we realized that we had both been subs without knowing it, we both smacked our foreheads & said "no wonder it never worked".

As a part-time Pro-Domme I know most men who come to Pro-Dommes do so because they are in a vanilla marriage, don't want out of it, but need their submissive side fed from time to time. As far as accepting service & play subs into my stable, I will not accept a man until I have met & talked to his wife. I have one play partner/best friend whose wife knows, approves and knows exactly what he & I do - he always takes his loving home to her. I was interviewing one sub, met he & his wife twice, the 2nd meeting was a tutorial and I gave them a toy, haven't heard from them since, I lost a good sub, but know I improved a marriage.

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to Whipenrod)

RE: Married? Married! - 8/22/2004 8:03:18 PM

Laura

Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
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I don't play with married guys, online or offline. It's simple that way. Plus it keeps it their problem rather than making it mine.

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RE: Married? Married! - 8/22/2004 10:50:30 PM

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Joined: 8/20/2004
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Yes thats better for you...but i must add, you personally. which is not a problem. Although if the spouse knows and has agreed it to be ok, then wheres the hurt? just my opinion too....evreyone has one and is entitled to believe what they will. No harm done! i consider you a friend either way......ronniferd sub boy blue....

(in reply to Laura)

RE: Married? Married! - 8/23/2004 7:37:10 AM

Laura

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From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronniferd

Yes thats better for you...but i must add, you personally. which is not a problem. Although if the spouse knows and has agreed it to be ok, then wheres the hurt?

I can think of a few things. Let's start with spreading STDs (condoms are not 100% and may not always be used in every situation, every time) and work down to the spouse's self esteem. Even if she/ he says yes that doesn't mean it's really ok with them. Or that they won't change their mind once it starts. I've been married. I was also an abused wife. I would have agreed to this due to him pressuring/ convincing me. But I would have hated him, myself and whatever slut he was with.

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RE: Married? Married! - 8/23/2004 9:22:46 AM

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Yes ma'am well put i will definetly give it some thought. Thankyou for your advice ma'am.

(in reply to Laura)

RE: Married? Married! - 8/23/2004 10:36:55 AM

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Joined: 8/20/2004
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Just so everyone knows i have been selected and i am not not interested in finding a Mistress anymore at this time. I will start soon and i am in a state of great expectations here. Just letting everyone know i have been selected for a trail basis. Thankyou collarme !

< Message edited by ronniferd -- 8/23/2004 10:38:20 AM >

(in reply to ronniferd)

RE: Married? Married! - 8/23/2004 8:47:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronniferd

Just so everyone knows i have been selected and i am not not interested in finding a Mistress anymore at this time. I will start soon and i am in a state of great expectations here. Just letting everyone know i have been selected for a trail basis. Thankyou collarme !

Ok.. congrats! I got laid last night... you don't see me posting it on every board! Stop wasting our precious cyberspace.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ronniferd)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/12/2004 3:42:03 PM

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Joined: 10/9/2004
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There is a very easy way to tell whether or not the sub's wife is aware, if marks do not matter, then the spouse knows everything.

If marks matter, then the wife probably does not know.

_____________________________

Chris Green

Matron, sister or nurse wanted,
to administer discipline to unruly patient.

(in reply to Whipenrod)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/17/2004 3:30:12 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
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As a part time Pro Domina, I find that virtually all of My Pro Clients are married. I check about leaving marks, I ask if I can wear perfume, and I know for a fact that even though wives may be aware of these yearnings on their spouse's part, these needs are not being satisfied. So I will. No sex, just a good session. When they want to talk about their wives, and they often do, perhaps the salve their own conscience, I kindly listen. If they want to waste session time on that, it is no skin off my nose. But when a married applies for live-in or casual play, it is a No for Me. It doesn't mean I don't care about the married I am sessioning with, and I often receive roses as well as gifts. But I find I can be kind and personal without getting emotionally involved. It is a perfectly acceptable relationship for Me and, and seems to make the client much more comfortable.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to Whipenrod)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/18/2004 12:09:22 PM

Posts: 265
Joined: 7/21/2004
From: Dayton, OH
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I see that the general consensus among Doms is that play with married males is not acceptable unless the wife knows and approves.
While I can certainly see this point of view, and for most of my life would have clearly agreed, I'm wondering where that leaves me?

I'm married. My wife is ill, and can't have sex. It's chronic, and so no real hope of any change. I remained faithful for many years, trusting in my constant companion, my hand.

We've talked it over. She had no suggestions. She did indicate that she would feel hurt if she knew I was having sex with another. I love her, and wouldn't want to hurt her for the world.

Nevertheless, I feel that I've got a life to live as well. My solution, condem it if you will, is to play with utmost discretion, and only with people I I trust. So far so good.

Just wondering what opinions were on my situation. I'd appreciate polite replies, but please feel free to differ if that's what you believe.

Thanks,
~smile~

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/18/2004 12:24:57 PM

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I suppose for me it comes down to this.. for better or for worse.. in sickness and in health... we take those vows ... Your wife is uncomfortable with you being sexually initmate with another female.. I would say bdsm doesnt necessarily have anything to do with sex..companionship doesnt have to have anything to do with sex. You have to shave in the mirror and only you can say what works or does not work for you.

I can only say that my personal opinion is that I dont play unless I am in contact with the other partner.. thats what works for me.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to smile2cu)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/18/2004 1:24:41 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

hmmm...thinking about this. I sympathize with your situation. As Zan stated in a previous post, there is always the problem with a Pro Domme that the married spouse will begin to see greener pastures. In that case, I lose a client (damn) but it is a minimal risk and it is a business transaction for Me. Playing with people you trust can still create some problems for you. Emotional attachments you do not expect can develop on your side or on their's. I realize you have needs and I don't know how long you have been in this situation. If you only do some BDSM play, sans any actual sexual activity, and then allow your hand to handle the rest, it might be the way you justify this. I can only say, be careful, be safe, and best of luck.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to smile2cu)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/18/2004 8:25:50 PM

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Joined: 6/18/2004
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Dear Everybody From Collarme

Well, It's been a while, and I've played a while.
When I posted this I was of an uncertain opinion--now I have changed.

True--Someone who is in a committed relationship may need a submissive fix once in a while.
As long as I --and HE--understand that--all is well
I have developed several relationships along those lines.
If I need more--then I need to look elsewhere.
What I am giving is not a 'full experience'--no movies, no cuddling, etc.
Sometimes I feel like a therapist
A doctor or (maybe) a prostitute? People call Dominatrix "sex workers"
Maybe I am not giving the relationships (with single guys) I have a chance to mature--this is still very recent.
I see the devoted, most sincere subs seem to be married--
Is this true?
It seems to be based on yearning--are they the hungryiest?
Some of my best times are with them--oddly enough.
Maybe (after the first onslaught of messages almost put me in traction!)
I should test the waters again and 'unhide' my profile and see what turns up. Maybe the single guys will make more of a showing.

Mistress Zanthia--haven't had any 'puppy dog stories' yet--all these seem to be strong, proud men who are submissive at heart.

Again--check back in a year and I'll let you know where I'm at!

--Lady Whipenrod

_____________________________

"I can resist everything except temptation."
--Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

(in reply to ronniferd)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/19/2004 8:30:36 AM

Laura

Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smile2cu

We've talked it over. She had no suggestions. She did indicate that she would feel hurt if she knew I was having sex with another. I love her, and wouldn't want to hurt her for the world.

I'm not criticising you. I just find it interesting that you wouldn't hurt her for the world but you will hurt her to satisfy a sexual(?) need. I realize men tick differently but this is a bit bizarre sounding to me.

Since I last posted on this thread I have met with a married man, no sex, just talk over coffee. He says pretty much the same things about his wife as smile2 above. He loves her, would not hurt her, would not leave her for the world.... but he would screw around on her.

I'm not sure if I will meet married guy again. I know I'm not the first and won't be the last. For me, the option is there and I do miss sex. I don't feel attached to him and I think, knowing he is screwing around, I don't even especially like him. I don't need to like him to use him. In the end his marriage, his personal life are his to deal with, I haven't asked much about them. If this is a temporary/ casual thing what does it matter to me?

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RE: Married? Married! - 10/19/2004 9:56:18 AM

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ChrisGreen's statement on marks is ludicrous! How many "too-long" married couples go days, weeks, or even months without seeing each other naked? There's NO WAY of telling what "the wife" knows or doesn't know unless she tells you precisely that herself!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisGreen

There is a very easy way to tell whether or not the sub's wife is aware, if marks do not matter, then the spouse knows everything.

If marks matter, then the wife probably does not know.

(in reply to ChrisGreen)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/19/2004 1:32:42 PM

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quote:

ChrisGreen's statement on marks is ludicrous! How many "too-long" married couples go days, weeks, or even months without seeing each other naked? There's NO WAY of telling what "the wife" knows or doesn't know unless she tells you precisely that herself!

As a martial artist for most of my adult life, I am trying hard to think of a time in my life when I was not marked up, bruised, in bandages, splints, casted, or otherwise looking like Edward Norton in Fight Club.

On a positive note, I generally gave as good as I got and figured it was all good, clean fun.

Just me, could be wrong, but there ya go.

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to DeerAbbie)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/19/2004 3:55:06 PM

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From: Washington
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quote:

ChrisGreen's statement on marks is ludicrous! How many "too-long" married couples go days, weeks, or even months without seeing each other naked? There's NO WAY of telling what "the wife" knows or doesn't know unless she tells you precisely that herself!

Hubby sees me naked all the time, even after 36 yrs. He even gives me catcalls still

When i was having my affair with my first r/l dom he was usually very careful not to leave marks. However one day he used a riding crop on my ass, which i loved and begged for more. Well the bruises showed up later that night. I had to dress in the bathroom for a week.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to DeerAbbie)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/20/2004 1:03:33 PM

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From: Dayton, OH
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Well, I didn’t honestly expect much of a different response, but am a bit disappointed anyway.

So where to go from here? Jefferson set the precedent: “When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary [to take an action] a decent respect to the opinions of [wo]mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them …”

We have had a good and long-lasting marriage. In this age of easy divorce, I’ve stuck with her despite her illness and a permanently disabled child, where many of our friends have bailed out on much weaker grounds. In my humble opinion, I've been a better than average husband. A few years ago, we attended a co-worker’s wedding, and found we were the 2nd longest married couple there. And the longest married couple were octogenarians. “For better or worse” doesn’t seem to mean much these days.

I waited many years, and thought long and hard about this before taking this course of action. I really don’t see where celibacy would help anybody. Yes, I’m enjoying the sex, actually a lot. I always have. I’d prefer it with her, but that’s not to be. Meanwhile, having made my decision, I’m comfortable with it, have no difficulty looking in a mirror, and believe that all things considered I’ve tried to act honorably.

My Mother-in-law, who in fairness has been a better than average mother-in-law, taught my wife that men aren’t to be trusted. So all of the years I was faithful, my wife assumed I wasn’t. My point is not that this justifies anything, but merely that my wife would not be overly shocked if my discretion should fail and she should find out. She’d just assume I was continuing. (Yes, I know that's kind of sad.)

I’ve been absolutely upfront about my status. If you look at my profile, I mention it prominently, and mention it early in any dialogue. I think the point about attachments is a valid one. I’ve tried to make sure everyone understands about that one. I’m kind, friendly, caring and loving to many people, but not in love with them, and I try to make the distinction clear.

I don’t expect this will change anyone’s mind, but. “appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of [my] intentions”, that’s my story.

~smile~

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

RE: Married? Married! - 10/20/2004 1:15:42 PM

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Well, smile2cu, I am new here, but I do have a LOT of empathy for your situation, and I don't think if you're not falling in love with your partners outside your marriage and your wife can't have sex and you're not throwing it in her face to hurt her, that you're doing anything wrong. It doesn't matter what I (or anyone else, except maybe God, if you believe in God) thinks anyway. Wow, I just probably really exposed my Catholicism in a big way, hehehe! Hmmm, anyway...

My problem is, I am afraid I would very much fall in love with someone if I had a bdsm affair with them outside my marriage - I really feel I need it in my relationship, and I am really doubtful I could keep my love out of it. So, I am trying to work things out w/my partner (who certainly can have sex, so it's not at all really like your situation, although he seems to be able to "take or leave" bdsm, but that could change - hopefully). But if things don't work out sex or bdsm wise, I guess sooner or later, people decide they are at a "jumping off place", or that they are going to stay in their marriage regardless. - susannah

< Message edited by susannah -- 10/20/2004 1:17:50 PM >

(in reply to smile2cu)

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