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RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 11:45:56 AM

LadyHugs

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear ResidentSadist, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Unfortunately, there are many views of what 'mastery' is and or was; and or -can be, should be, would be, etc.

In 'mastering' oneself, it really is a never ending journey--a quest for perfection; which does not stop until life itself does. Some feel, that once a 'Master' this quest/journey stops and one has learned all they will and or can. I disagree with such thoughts however, there are those who will disagree with mine. It must be considered on what mastering means to you the person (in general) and how you can communicate that to a potential partner; as to permit them the opportunity to join you on the journey/quest and or stop; wherever you deem the term "master" may be. (In general).

Some see master as an art form, some see it as superiority and some join them together.

The 'masterpiece' though is yourself (in general). In taking someone you know and work hard in producing an image as well as a representation or standard; of which to be inspired by--than I believe it to be in the vein of art and philosophy joined. Indirectly teaching others on how self behavior inspires. Words are fleeting however, the image is longer lasting.

Each area where master can be applied, such as education, mentoring, teaching, art, profession, title, skill, knowledge, application and those wishing to 'copy-cat' you (in a general sense); will touch those who are willing to be touched and repell those who are indifferent and or jealous of other's as they individually work hard to develop their own model/standard of what 'master' is and or being 'master.'

Those with good intentions will excell and those who wish to mute others, debase others and the like will do much, as to harm other's quests/journey into success and the broading of knowledge and power. The important judge is yourself (in general) as you (in general) know your own true intentions and the direction of travel to reach towards those goals of 'forever learning and or maintaining' a form of mastery.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 21

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 11:51:08 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I believe that s-types would be included in the 'master yourself' before one submits to another. I do not see mastery as purely the dominants domain.
It's called being responsible for yourself and your choices, regardless of orientation.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 22

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 12:14:57 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
Gender bias.
I've supported most of the men in my life financially (all but one that I can think of) both in vanilla and bdsm relationship. What;s gender got to do with it.........?
***Master is a gender specific role. Look it up.

Yes, granted, but I understand that if I always have to stick to the dictionaty definitions I would naver have been creative........however dictionaries AND language are gender biased AND gender oppositional.
I worship female dieties, rock on the idea of Mary Magdalene being for real and in this lifetime personally learn most (at the moment) from those who are trans gendered or iner=sexed. I have an inter=sex condition close to me in my family. They have a great deal to teach.
My accuations of gender bias anyway was not a knock against the conformist meaning of the word MASTER..... It was railing against the sweeping statement about the financial power base that had crept in.

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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Post #: 23

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 12:25:59 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

In 'mastering' oneself, it really is a never ending journey--a quest for perfection; which does not stop until life itself does.

I agree. It's always alluring is it not to talk about processes as if they were things. And equally as alluring to talk about function as if it were structure.
Thus mastering becomes equated with a Master (male?) and dynamics becomes equared with better/less, top/bottom, superitoriy/inferiority and so on.

quote:

The 'masterpiece' though is yourself (in general).
[
quote:

I am giving myself until my last breath yo master this vehicle I refer to as myself. If death is unforseen and accidental for me then it remains one of my credos that in that split second before my last breath I will have a great deal of catching up to do. I also believe that the purpose of life itself is to be in the process of perfecting and I have absolute faith we are all bought to that point at the end.

quote:

Those with good intentions will excell and those who wish to mute others, debase others and the like will do much, as to harm other's quests/journey into success and the broading of knowledge and power.

I very muh hope so as this is my understanding of dharma. It's all encompassing and puts my so-called bdsm activities always within a spiritual context for me.
Thank you as ever Lady Hugs.

_____________________________

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
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To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 24

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 8:02:44 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: accipitres
There IS symbiosis; the teacher teaches, the student learns. The leader leads, the follower follows.

And you could easily argue that there is nothing superior in being a teacher (rather than the taught), the leader (rather than the follower); and you would proably be "right"

I should have said "To me, 'being taught' and 'following' imply ignorance and helplessness, and thus, inferiority."

Hmmm, OK then let's look at it like this. My wife, whom I have loved for 13 years now, has a wide variety of really excellent skills... and I do mean a WIDE variety of them. However, what is not present on that list is being able to lead well. She has difficulty being judgemental (which makes goal setting hard) and she is not adept at solving complex problems by breaking them down. Ergo, I'm the Master, she's the slave. We take those roles because they are best suited each to our own individual skill sets. It has nothing to do with being superior or inferior as a human overall... only at the leadership aspects.

Oh, and if we were laying tile in the kitchen, building a waterfall in the backyard, or fixing an engine, you can bet that I'd be taking both guidance and instruction from her since she knows a LOT more than me about all those things. And I wouldn't feel particularly inferior about it... I'd be really glad we made such a great team.

Just my 2c

(in reply to accipitres)

Post #: 25

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 9:08:41 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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Well...hmm...I *do* think a dom should be able to master himself; and I do have more respect for someone who has taken the time and put the energy into being much more successful than I am.

Both doms that I have fallen for are quite accomplished. I *do* have to respect someone in order to submit to them. If they had not been "accomplished" in the worldly sense, because they had cared for a sick parent or a child, I would have no less respect for that person. But all things being equal, I think RS has a point. Someone who has worked hard to make their life 'work' (whatever that may mean...it could be financial, familial, or just a way to be happy) will gain my respect much more quickly than someone (like me) who has allowed circumstances to rule them.

You do not have to be financially successful to be a dom. Not at all. But I would have to say, that you should at least have a plan, or a way to live comfortably (whatever that means to you) in place.

It's just my opinion though. Ymmv.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 26

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/23/2008 9:36:44 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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quote:

You do not have to be financially successful to be a dom. Not at all. But I would have to say, that you should at least have a plan, or a way to live comfortably (whatever that means to you) in place.

Exactly.

If that man were to live in the woods and is able to chop his own wood, catch his own dinner, build his own shelter and sustain his own life that way (without tresspassing of course) kudos for him. Yet, we live in a world of reality (city living, taxes, occupations, income/employment upgrades)few men live as if they are Davey Crocket anymore.

Honestly, if you cannot survive (not only survive, but THRIVE) in the culture (society as we know it) you were born into...then how are you going to be considered a dominant?

So you survived boy scouts, yet it was merely temporary (fun), when does reality hit and actual domination (master of your domaine) begin?

When you accept that your culture/society, your reality that surrounds you has challenges that you must meet and exceed. You must master yourself to be well-equipped to master your surroundings.

If not, then your ego may (and having someone who adores you the way you are) convince you that life is as good as it gets.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 27

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 6:25:50 AM

accipitres

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I hope that in ANY relationship there is mutual learning, complimentary skill sets, etc.

That is why the "The master is the teacher" attitude annoys me. It doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the master to sometimes be the student, which imples that the master knows everything

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 28

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 7:13:08 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

That is why the "The master is the teacher" attitude annoys me. It doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the master to sometimes be the student, which imples that the master knows everything

It annoys me too, but because I wonder just how the master became qualifed to become the teacher. You have 2 people going through life learning whatever they learn, and now one's experiences are magically transformed into divine wisdome while the other is simply an empty vessel to soak it all up.

Yuck!

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

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Post #: 29

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 8:11:10 AM

accipitres

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

It annoys me too, but because I wonder just how the master became qualifed to become the teacher. You have 2 people going through life learning whatever they learn, and now one's experiences are magically transformed into divine wisdome while the other is simply an empty vessel to soak it all up.

My hero! You said that so simply.

The only thing you could have done better was post earlier, thus saving me from wasting a lot of time and energy trying to say it myself.

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 30

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 11:24:12 AM

everhope

Posts: 2179
Joined: 8/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: accipitres
I hope that in ANY relationship there is mutual learning, complimentary skill sets, etc.

That is why the "The master is the teacher" attitude annoys me. It doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the master to sometimes be the student, which imples that the master knows everything

i don't understand your implied Master knows "everything". the Masters i have had opportunity to know were interested in learning about "things", i was more knowlegeable about.
there are areas of my life that i am an open/empty vessel, one area especially ..being fully open to a Master to master me.

may we all find our bliss by being open to the possibilities.

_____________________________

may we all find our bliss

Resident VWB

We all die.
The goal isn't to live forever.
The goal is to create something that will.

(in reply to accipitres)

Post #: 31

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 11:51:51 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Sorry but this is overly romantic fluff.

Many male submissives support their Mistress financially, there are masters who's women support him, and frankly the richer dominants that I know are often the most fucked up.

The whole "master yourself" thing is overblown hyperbole. Master what exactly? Be perfect? Know you aren't perfect?

As for training someone, what is that about if you can't do teach? There are things I can teach that I am far from competent on but my student would never know that. There are thinks I am exceedingly competent in that I can't teach. Teaching is a skill in and of itself. Besides, if she is happy learning from you, what the hell else matters anyway? Is there someone grading us or something?

As for us, it would be great if he could support us both the way we want to live. However, even if he gets that sort of salary sometime in the future, I won't stop working. I'll just only work where I want to and when it's best for me, which is when it's best for us.

Also, you are eventually going to have get over the fact that some of us don't believe there is a fundamental difference between master and dominant. We're heard your reasons for your way of thinking and they simply don't hold water with us - exactly as our reasons don't hold water with you and yours.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/24/2008 11:52:23 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 32

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 3:28:56 PM

ResidentSadist

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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As far as personal views, rare exceptions, limitations and all that other symantic jazz, we all use the english language. Webster is our mentor. The OP only reffers to those uses of the term because it is the only universal understanding of that term. Like I have said many times before, if we all used private dictionaries with our own special definitions, we would fail to communicate at all.

If you want to use a label, you should know what it means to fullfil its requirements. Hence the 3 widly different criteria for being a Master in accord with Webster.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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Post #: 33

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 3:52:07 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

As far as personal views, rare exceptions, limitations and all that other symantic jazz, we all use the english language. Webster is our mentor. The OP only reffers to those uses of the term because it is the only universal understanding of that term. Like I have said many times before, if we all used private dictionaries with our own special definitions, we would fail to communicate at all.

If you want to use a label, you should know what it means to fullfil its requirements. Hence the 3 widly different criteria for being a Master in accord with Webster.

The Oxford Dictionary plllleeerrrrrrllleeeeaaaasssse.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
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To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Post #: 34

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 4:23:25 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

As far as personal views, rare exceptions, limitations and all that other symantic jazz, we all use the english language. Webster is our mentor.

Webster is a great resource. However, according to many standard dictionaries (the last I looked it up anyway) there is no difference between a pentacle and a pentagram. Say that among my Pagan or Wiccan friends and they will be oh so happy to inform of exactly what the difference is. If I say "Valyraen raped me last night" to my Mom or even my non-kink friends, they will assume he had sex with me without my consent. If I say "Valyraen raped me last night" to my friends here, they will probably assume that it was hot, sweaty and a lot of fun.

Webster is not the be all and end all, and while it provides a useful common ground one has to accept it's limitations. You still have to find out what things mean to specific people, which can vary dramatically. Here in the South, saying "Ma'am" and "Sir" is just respectful and good manners, dom, sub or otherwise. Yet I've heard of plenty of people be very offended because they were addressed that way.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/24/2008 4:26:14 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 35

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 4:43:27 PM

ResidentSadist

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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OK OK ... I confess... I like American Heritage better than Webster’s. Give a guy a break! The point was that it was a dictionary at all instead of just crazy personal interpretations.

_____________________________

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I give good thread.

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Post #: 36

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 5:13:07 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

OK OK ... I confess... I like American Heritage better than Webster’s. Give a guy a break! The point was that it was a dictionary at all instead of just crazy personal interpretations.

What really did my head in as they say (try to keep this simple ok) is the concept of Master as masculine.....
I don't want to get all smart arse with you because I would like a considered response BUT since when has mastery been solely within the male domian (except according to dictionary.......covergent thinking conformist) definitions and HIStory.
What I do feel marks the distinction for me between the concepts of Dominant and Master is that whereas Dominant certainly does have its etiology (aetiology.....Oxford English) or roots in a bdsm context, mastery for me has its roots in non-bdsm contexts.......particulalry 'chi' or 'ki' trainigs (Chinese/Japanese0 and certain forms of Buddhism with its make and female dieties.....(for which a summary of two and a half thousanfs years of cultural develpoment would be outside the remit of this thread), Hinduism and so on..... So simply put; I feel attraction towards many forms of mastery: the Ki master, the Taoist teacher, the Buddhist Monk, the Goddess, the Existential Philosopher, the experiential trainer and so-on.
i expect a master to be able to train me, teach me, contain me, enslave me NOT from the use of any equipment or sensation BUT to be able to bind me nevertheless by my wanting to learn from example, to imitate to a certain extent and to follow behind him/her in their footsteps (yes metaphorically and actually). It's just my sexual preference that they have a dick rather than a clit.
Damn dictionaries.........throw out the effin books and give me a person who is the writer.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Post #: 37

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 5:15:20 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

OK OK ... I confess... I like American Heritage better than Webster’s. Give a guy a break! The point was that it was a dictionary at all instead of just crazy personal interpretations.

And mine is that you simply can't rely on a dictionary to know the entire meaning of a word. That will change culturally, be it in the North, South, East, West, Punk, Pop, vanilla or BDSM culture.

"Master" and "slave" are also computer terms that almost any computer geek, or all around nerd, will know yet I did not see these meanings referenced in the American Hertiage dictionary.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/24/2008 5:16:22 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 38

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 5:29:03 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

OK OK ... I confess... I like American Heritage better than Webster’s. Give a guy a break! The point was that it was a dictionary at all instead of just crazy personal interpretations.

And mine is that you simply can't rely on a dictionary to know the entire meaning of a word. That will change culturally, be it in the North, South, East, West, Punk, Pop, vanilla or BDSM culture.

"Master" and "slave" are also computer terms that almost any computer geek, or all around nerd, will know yet I did not see these meanings referenced in the American Hertiage dictionary.

My electrician has an entirely different meaning for male and female coupling also.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 39

RE: -=On Being a Master=- - 6/24/2008 5:49:01 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

My electrician has an entirely different meaning for male and female coupling also.

Oooo that reminds me. If I say "I need a male cord" in the theatre, I mean an entirely different thing than if I say "I need a male cord" around the house! And those lovely sex change adapters!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 40

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