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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:00:13 PM

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Define permanent harm? Does it matter what one's intentions are?

For me the health/destruction comes in when you're talking about being fulfilled in who you are and more secure in yourself.

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:04:39 PM

crouchingtigress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
ok so i guess ill share, even though i am scared too, because i dont really want to be judged....

That took a lot of guts.

Think of it like tattoos. I know quite a few people who were gangbangers when younger, and now wish they didn't have tattoos in visible locations. They're not ashamed of who they were -- ashamed of some things they did, maybe, but hell, so am I. But it's an economic problem to have visible tats when applying for jobs. There are some decisions that are irreversible.

If you're making an irreversible decision to achieve a high-of-the-moment for the person you are now, you are forever altering the options the future you will have available to her. That might not be fair to future-Amy -- and, frankly, now-Amy isn't in a position to evaluate that objectively.

If that is a kink you choose to explore, I would say it is critical for you to have friends who will give you unvarnished opinions. You need input from people who have loyalty to both present- and future-Amy, so you don't base your decisions solely on what you feel and see right now.

well you make a great point, red, and i would like to address it if i may.

i would argue that all body mods fit the criteria of your assessment, meaning that all body mods forever and could change the opportunitys one has for employment ect.

funny enough i have never wanted a tattoo, or scarification even though i dated tattoo artists and piercers and was offered anything i wished.

this was different, very different. it was a shamanic moment of soul opening that i knew would change me forever. it was not about the high, although i did get high afterwords, it was about sacrifice, and my journey in my spirituality to understand my path for myself.

i don't think others should do it, i am not advocating that at all, but ritual, and sacrifice are two things that speak to my core very deeply and for me it was about asking the question....what is sacrifice? what is shame? what is submission? what is fear? who am i beyond my flesh form?

now i know not every one is plagued by these questions as i am, or maybe they are unwilling to go to the lengths i am to answer them, but this is my path and it has been my path since i was a small child.

future amy, and past amy are the same person, and there is a theme, that theme is seeking....

past present and future amy is not her job, or her friends, or her life accoutrement's, or even her flesh body....the being that is me, can not be defined, it lies outside of definition, it is as vast as the universe, as ancient as the stars and as free as the sky...

and that is the being i wanted to touch...to experience, and in this situation to share with my partner....to experience sacrifice at the deepest level i knew how to and see what that was like for me...

i like to explore, this whole world is my playground, i am only here in this form once and i believe truly that i should not waste it...if i have a question i should answer it...if i have a desire i should envelop it...if i have a passion i should devour it.

but that me, those are my core values....i feel that following ones erotic authenticity is not just the willingness to do something kinky, but it is the courage to know that the world might judge you and fear you and hate you and still do that thing that you are being called to do.

future amy is in good hands i think, red magic, even if those hands are missing a finger someday.....

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:12:13 PM

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Dolcett

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:14:51 PM

StrangerinBlack

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This story seems more like an urban legend to me (did some research, couldnt find any cases of BDSM+cannibalism). Regardless of that, the desire to cut off pieces of your body (or to eat them) is an example of an extreme pathological psychosis that has nothing to do with BDSM in any meaningful sense. Beyond that, BDSM is just a convenient label for a variety of practices and outlooks, any human behavior has the potential to become abusive. There are plenty of cases where psychiatrists have abused patients, this does not mean that psychiatry is in and of itself abusive. Same applies to BDSM.

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:16:42 PM

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Stranger- do some research, people have done this in the name of kink. And it is truly many peoples fantasies, including mine, and I'll thank you to stop suggesting MY kink is some pathological psychosis while YOUR kink is a fluffy bunny dream come true.

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:18:30 PM

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My own kink involves the raw consumption of fluffy bunnies.

Edited to say that I shouldn't have made a joke here, with CT and LA being so open about something that will land them in a world of yer-not-ok-ness.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 6/28/2008 4:19:35 PM >

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:21:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
My own kink involves the raw consumption of fluffy bunnies.

Edited to say that I shouldn't have made a joke here, with CT and LA being so open about something that will land them in a world of yer-not-ok-ness.

LOL no I thought it was cute, and I happen to not only enjoy rabbit myself, but my partners main pet name for me is "bunny" which is why I always like using the term.

And if you REALLY thought you shouldn't have done it, you'd have edited it out :)

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 6/28/2008 4:22:35 PM >

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:26:07 PM

crouchingtigress

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quote:

CT and LA being so open about something that will land them in a world of yer-not-ok-ness.

its ok red, we are switches....we are used to it....*grin*..and that bunny joke was funny btw.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 6/28/2008 4:29:10 PM >

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:27:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
And if you REALLY thought you shouldn't have done it, you'd have edited it out :)

Actually, no. I believe in being accountable for what I say. That's why I hard limit chat rooms -- no permanent record. I have a personal policy of never deleting words once I hit the submit button. I think it helps me be less of a doofus when I post.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:33:19 PM

StrangerinBlack

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Albatross: I just did do some research, and I found no cases reported of this happening (and next time you accuse someone of not researching, how about you provide some evidence yourself?). This does not mean it hasn't, but suggests that its not common. I am not talking about fantasy or roleplay. Whatever turns you on inside your own head is A-OK. That being said, people who cut off large parts of their body have a mental illness. I don't care why, or what is done with those body parts. It is not healthy to permanently injure or disable yourself. If you want to argue that, I'll be happy to. I never said anything about your kink or mine, just healthy and unhealthy behaviors. So while I respect your desire not to be judged, I'm not judging you, or your kink. (And where in the world do you presume to have any idea whatsoever on what I think about my own kink? It was not mentioned in this conversation at all.) So, maybe your projecting, just a little. To sum it up, if you like the fantasy of being cooked and consumed, GO FOR IT! If your missing your left arm because your dom ate it GO GET HELP! I really don't think I'm being judgemental at all here.

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:41:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
not true you guys....yes it does not have to be part of the d/s lifestyle, but if the two were engagin in power exchange it does become so and we cant burry our head in the sand about that...

What power exchange Amy? He wants to eat body parts, She wants to cut off her own body parts and then mail said bits to him, where he can then cook them and what, take a picture of eating said body part ...Errm, not power exchange in my book.

Like I said I am judgemental and Im not embarrassed to admit it cause cannilbalism to me sure as hell is not a 'kink'

Then again Amy, You've always been much more extreme then me., I remember your slave days from a few years ago on 'the other site' and all the things we used to talk about then.

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:41:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerinBlack
Albatross: I just did do some research, and I found no cases reported of this happening (and next time you accuse someone of not researching, how about you provide some evidence yourself?)

I guess you aren't familiar with making points then? You're the one making some assessment, you have to prove it.

That being said: http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/01/011606cannibal.htm

quote:

It is not healthy to permanently injure or disable yourself. If you want to argue that, I'll be happy to. I never said anything about your kink or mine, just healthy and unhealthy behaviors.

Well there's always the obvious cases of giving up your organs to save anothers life, killing your body so that another may live. I think that pretty easily proves that there are plenty of cases in which choosing to disable or kill yourself is a good and healthy thing to do.

quote:

So while I respect your desire not to be judged, I'm not judging you, or your kink. (And where in the world do you presume to have any idea whatsoever on what I think about my own kink? It was not mentioned in this conversation at all.)

Well I presume you think most of the things you enjoy are sane and healthy. If not, my mistake, you could think everything you do is pathologically psychotic as well.

And I'm sorry you must have been using "pathologically psychotic" in the NON judgmental form that doesn't exist?

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:42:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerinBlack
Albatross: I just did do some research, and I found no cases reported of this happening (and next time you accuse someone of not researching, how about you provide some evidence yourself?).

Dude. Camille65 already posted a link on this very thread. LuckyAlbatross should be redundant? What kind of researcher are you if you don't click on the link in the thread dedicated to the topic?

Besides that, your position does not sound scientific. What's a "large" body part? Is a finger ok? A fingertip? What about ritual scarification? The giraffe women? When you say something is a mental illness, do you mean it is classified as such in the DSM IV?

Just so you know, I could answer all those questions, but I don't want to, because I think it misses the point. The point is that kink is not really different from non-kink, and the sanity of kinky acts should be judged with the same criteria that one judges non-kinky acts: the motivation of the participants, and the long-term mindbody ramifications.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to StrangerinBlack)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:46:36 PM

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I am using the definition that BDSM is a relationship involving bondage, domination, sadism or massochism. This case involved domination, sadism, and massochism. It just does not fit the mold of BDSM that I normally encounter. I am using a very loose interpretation I know, but I am getting the discussion I desired.

(in reply to L8bloomer)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 4:57:13 PM

crouchingtigress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laura2161

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
not true you guys....yes it does not have to be part of the d/s lifestyle, but if the two were engagin in power exchange it does become so and we cant burry our head in the sand about that...

What power exchange Amy? He wants to eat body parts, She wants to cut off her own body parts and then mail said bits to him, where he can then cook them and what, take a picture of eating said body part ...Errm, not power exchange in my book.

Like I said I am judgemental and Im not embarrassed to admit it cause cannilbalism to me sure as hell is not a 'kink'

Then again Amy, You've always been much more extreme then me., I remember your slave days from a few years ago on 'the other site' and all the things we used to talk about then.

aloha laura,

thanks for asking,..... i think it might open a fresh can of worms not to mention hijack this thread, but it is my personal belief that if she used the words daddy, sir, or master and he used the words girl, slut or slave then they are engaged in power exchange....and that makes them part of our community....

just like i believe that "nilla" folks that use the words "whos your daddy" are age players....

and i think that if we were willing to admitt this, if we had the courage to admitt that human sexuality is a spectrum.....and you can be anywhere on that spectrum that you want to be and that as long as its risk aware and concentual, then there would be a lot less of the mykinkisokbutyourkinkissickology and a lot more of accepting ourselves and our neighbors for the amazing multidimentional, fathomless beings of light and love that they are...

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 5:00:18 PM

StrangerinBlack

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I guess you aren't familiar with making points then? You're the one making some assessment, you have to prove it. "

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. What is up with the personal attacks? I made a statement about my personal beliefs, not specifically referring to any individual, and now your attacking me. What is your problem? Also, how does one "prove" (which is not how science works by the way) a lack of something?

"That being said: http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/01/011606cannibal.htm "

Um, thats a news paper story about a trial that is still in review. That is in no way evidence that this occurs to any kind of meaningful degree.

"Well there's always the obvious cases of giving up your organs to save another's life, killing your body so that another may live. I think that pretty easily proves that there are plenty of cases in which choosing to disable or kill yourself is a good and healthy thing to do. "

That has nothing to do with either the story in question, your kink, or the point I made. And no one mentioned organs and transplants at all, can you please at least actually discuss what were talking about, if your going to go off on me?

"Well I presume you think most of the things you enjoy are sane and healthy. "

You don't know anything about me at all. So you should really stop there.

"If not, my mistake, you could think everything you do is pathologically psychotic as well. "

Or maybe there are other options that are not so black and white. Maybe it's not your business.

"And I'm sorry you must have been using "pathologically psychotic" in the NON judgmental form that doesn't exist? "

Oh, are you missing any major body parts that we should know about because someone else ate them? More relevantly, do you plan to do so in the future? If so, then go find me a shrink that wont label you with something. Otherwise, i was talking about the act and not the fantasy (and not about you at all). And psychotic is a judgement, but its a judgement about a persons ability to take care of themselves without coming to harm. It has nothing to do whatsoever with judging a person's value. I'm not really sure what point your making here anyway, or if your defending the kink or the action (which are not the same to me). I would also appreciate it if you would stop the insults and personal attacks. We can disagree like adults here, I'm sure.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 5:07:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerinBlack
If so, then go find me a shrink that wont label you with something.

Do you see how this is backwards? You are the one using terms like psychotic, and yet you provide no credentials, no evidence that you actually know what the word means, and if she wants to say she's not, it's on her to prove it to you.

What does the word "psychotic" mean when used by a "shrink," Stranger?

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 5:08:39 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 5:09:17 PM

StrangerinBlack

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"Dude. Camille65 already posted a link on this very thread. LuckyAlbatross should be redundant? What kind of researcher are you if you don't click on the link in the thread dedicated to the topic? "

Red: I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on what constitutes research here. And who said I was a "researcher", I know how to use medical journal database indexes is all, a child could do it.

"Besides that, your position does not sound scientific. What's a "large" body part? "

I would think that anything that led to either disfigurement (not easy to define) or disability would qualify. I believe fingers were the part in question here.

"Is a finger ok? "

No

"A fingertip?"

Maybe, if the bone were not cut, I would guess in most cases, no.

"What about ritual scarification? "

Not relevant., but usually/not always.

"The giraffe women? "

Can't judge an individual without a case study.

"When you say something is a mental illness, do you mean it is classified as such in the DSM IV? "

That works for me. But I would say that it causes lasting impairment or dysfunction in general.

"Just so you know, I could answer all those questions, but I don't want to, because I think it misses the point. The point is that kink is not really different from non-kink, and the sanity of kinky acts should be judged with the same criteria that one judges non-kinky acts: the motivation of the participants, and the long-term mindbody ramifications. "

I think you need to read other peoples posts better before you respond at all. Since the point I was making is that the act is pathological, inside or outside of kink, and that the fantasy was fine. I never made any distinction between kink/non-kink disfigurement/cannibalism and reading your definition, it sounds a lot like mine, so I'm confused what your actual disagreement with me is.

(in reply to StrangerinBlack)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 5:13:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I think the #1 mistake people make when thinking about topics like this is that BDSM is somehow "special." It feels special sometimes, because it's "cool" and societally edgy, or because the BDSM'er has been repressing the desires for so long. But mental and physical health are more fundamental.

The answer to the OP's question would be the same if he asked: When does fencing become unhealthy? or, When does dating become unhealthy? , or, When does your vanilla marriage become unhealthy?

Answer: When the interaction between the two people becomes addictive, destructive, physically debilitating.

/claps loudly

I wonder when we will stop thinking that this 'so called ,one of a kind lifestyle ,that no one else can understand' will stop being so ...special..

That word makes me puke

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