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RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 7:05:49 PM

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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My opinions are ALWAYS opinions, however they are cast. I cannot be responsible for how others take them.
I cannot make up facts, and anyone who takes what I say as fact makes that determination themselves.
You dont like my opinions, and thats your right, I will not defend them. They are mine and dont need defending.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 7:18:44 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pagankinktress

I understand what you're saying blackbeard, but my question to throw back out to you is: would a person with clinical mental illness necessarily be able to articulate or be fully aware of being inappropirately violated?

No more than a person without clinical mental illness is "necessarily able to articulate or be fully aware of being inappropriately violated." One might, however, note that at least half the regular posters have attested to clinical mental illness on the boards. In a number of these cases, they have attested to current illness. Only rarely has that been seen as a problem, and usually only when it applies to the submissive party (which has spoken volumes about how strong some posters really consider submissives, but that really isn't germaine).

And, if we allow for the notion that a sub with PTSD can consent to D/s without that constituting a problem with regard to determining if they have been inappropriately violated, how then deal with the extended assumption that they are able to determine whether a psychiatric intervention in their D/s-relationship constitutes being inappropriately violated?

What implications does that have for the couple that "obviously" "needed" "help" ?

quote:

I am only assuming there were underlying mental health issues in the participants of that situation.

That is a common assumption. It holds true for most who are arrested for such things. It does not hold true for everyone that has an interest in it, nor for everyone that has actually done it. While it's certainly not unreasonable to have doubts about their sanity, it tells more about us than them that we can't imagine that they might have a rational interest in it, when the bulk of society can't imagine us having a rational interest in what it is we do.

quote:

And who determines what is inappropriate?

Don't ask for a show of hands. You'll see 6.5 billion of them raised.

It's a tough question in most prevailing paradigms of philosophy and ethics.

Let's be realistic: the only reason pdocs get to do it is because we don't really care.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to pagankinktress)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 7:29:41 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

ok so i guess ill share, even though i am scared too, because i dont really want to be judged....

Thank you for sharing. It is a common misconception that anything that "extreme" must necessarily be a problem and indicative of a mental health issue and so forth. I've tried to challenge that premise from time to time, but sometimes it takes a concrete example to the contrary to actually show people that their assumption is wrong. You are one of the posters that I regard highly here, and I'm certain others feel the same. In that, your contribution by way of this disclosure is, simply put, invaluable.

As a side note, I've seen profiles specifically advertising the desire to do similar things.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 7:38:42 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

For me.. the more important question is the person better or worse for the experience.

I cede that this question may be more important.

It seems no less problematic, however.

The yardstick... ever the yardstick.

quote:

Hell.. can we even properly assess the consequences.

Can anyone, ever? We can guess, and some guesses are more probable than others. But we already have an extensive practice of allowing people to routinely make choices whose consequences they are unable to fully assess (e.g. have kids, vote, etc.). Which raises the definition of proper in this context, which in turn invokes the connotation of social acceptability, which is basing part of the reasoning on a foundation that rejects our way of life.

Assuming we're not all unethical, then the question is whether you're using the metric of social acceptability within the BDSM communities (an arbitrary confinement that might as well be a matter of personal acceptability), or whether one needs to reject its use as a valid foundation for the analysis of the ethics of our praxes.

quote:

These are difficult questions... and I am not so sure their is a universal answer that we can put out their.

You've still offered good thoughts on the subject.

Like mine, they fall short of an answer, though.

We may just have to settle for that, I guess.

quote:

However, I do know what is appropriate for me and I will not associate or develop relationships with people that fall beyond what I consider to be healthy.

This would seem to be a very workable approach.

Can't say I remember you being this tolerant last time I posted on this side, though¹?

Health,
al-Aswad.

¹ That's a compliment, coming from me, and I'm just curious about it.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:02:50 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

With some decent acting, you can get all sorts of drugs legally by a psychiatrist...

That's pure, homegrown, ecological, environmentally friendly bullshit.

My finances are down. I'll bet you USD 100 via PayPal within two months of losing the bet that I can give you a list you will not be able to obtain legally from a psychiatrist, and I'll disclose it publically along with documentation that each and every one of them has been used in a clinical setting for successfully treating one or more mental health conditions. If you want, I can even restrict this list to clinical depression, which is my "field," so to say. The length of the list is negotiable. You will need to obtain at least half the items on it. Each item can be obtained from a different psychiatrist. I'll take your word for them not being friends of yours who are doing you a favor. I reserve the right to request a review of their actions by the appropriate authorities insofar as that does not place you in legal jeopardy.

You have my express prior consent to note any failure to comply with the terms of the bet anywhere on the board, including your tagline, profile and journal, without any time frame limitation, disclosing my nickname in the process. While that is in a gray area with regards to the terms of service, I am pretty certain that the moderators will not object to it, given that I don't mind.

Will you put your money where your mouth is?

I certainly will, and I frankly don't have those $100 to spare.

I am not a doctor. I am not a psychologist. I am not a psychiatrist. Hell, I am not even a registered nurse. But I do know about pharmacological (and other) means of treating depression, and I am indeed skeptical of the field as a whole. I sometimes give advice on treatment options, however, and I have definitely run into a problem with the fact that the medical professionals are frequently inclined to restrict access to drugs that are ideal for their patient, even when there is no possibility of abuse.

In short, some people are forced to go through hell because the reality is not as you say.

quote:

most psychiatrists wouldn't know the difference between an act and reality if it smacked them upside the head.....

That would depend on the segment of the profession you're referring to.

Psychiatrists that have worked at a ward or experienced it themselves will know.

quote:

Two people can agree about anything, doesn't mean its sane or appropriate....

That goes for BDSM, too. Besides, neither does it mean it's insane or inappropriate.

Depending, of course, on your definition of "appropriate."

quote:

I might joke around about cannabalism, but that is what it is to me, a joke....I might eat Fred because I need to survive, but trust me, I'd rather eat a rat than Fred.......

I'd also rather eat a rat than a human. Humans are pathogenically compatible, so I'd run a greater risk of contracting a serious illness from eating a human than from eating a rat. If the rats were all eaten, though, you can bet there would still be food on the table for me and the people I care about and have access to.

As for the rest, one can only hope I misread your post.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:10:08 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerinBlack

This story seems more like an urban legend to me (did some research, couldnt find any cases of BDSM+cannibalism).

Google for Armin Meiwes to begin with. That is one documented case.

quote:

Regardless of that, the desire to cut off pieces of your body (or to eat them) is an example of an extreme pathological psychosis that has nothing to do with BDSM in any meaningful sense.

Perhaps you would care to substantiate that. From the extremely redundant "extreme pathological psychosis" bit, I figure you don't have anything resembling a clue what the last two words in that phrase mean. Which is no offense in itself, mind you. But neither does it then reflect well on you to throw them about.

quote:

Same applies to BDSM.

And cannibalism, too, particularly ritual cannibalism.

For that matter, you may find it interesting to note that castration and clitoridectomy are practiced in the gay and lesbian scenes, respectively, although obviously not to any widespread degree. Which says nothing about the number of people in any scene that happen to have an interest in it that they are not planning on acting on, for whatever reason. Regardless, the association with BDSM is undeniable.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to StrangerinBlack)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:11:24 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Stranger- do some research, people have done this in the name of kink. And it is truly many peoples fantasies, including mine, and I'll thank you to stop suggesting MY kink is some pathological psychosis while YOUR kink is a fluffy bunny dream come true.

I extend to you the same sentiment I expressed to crouchingtigress.

Thank you for sharing.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:14:10 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerinBlack

I really don't think I'm being judgemental at all here.

Many judge without thinking themselves judgmental. It's a delusion, of course, but that's okay.

Nothing wrong with being judgmental (although I certainly don't admire the trait).

It washes down more easily with a bit of awareness, however.

As to research, I gave you some; check it out.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to StrangerinBlack)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:15:23 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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quote:

I am not going to sit here and bash your decision to perform a ritualistic amputation ceremony. I was not their nor in your head when you made this decision. You say it will not be debilitating. Several people have mentioned the word debilitating as being where the line of permanent harm is located. I like exploring limits and I would like to use your amputation to continue exploring the limit of healthy behavior mentally and physically within the world of bondage, domination, sadism, and masochism. The line is a blurry grey line. Of course if it all black and white then this discussion would not be much fun now would it?

to be fair i say that i dont know if it will become debilitating ....but yes lets talk about this because it needs to be talked about, and i enjoy talking to you. you have an open and probing mind...my favorite.
....

quote:

In your latter post you mention that you conducted the amputation in a ritual and that part of the reason had to do with exploring the fact that your body is more than the flesh that houses your soul. This part seems more spiritual then having to do with BDSM. Most of the rest of what you mentioned could fall under the BDSM category. You mention that you did this out of sacrifice and submission.

it was sort of like a ritual, but not really, we had not planned it, we did not create a sacred space or do something we had done before...what we did was (and i am crying as i remember it) a slow progression into a place where it was very very safe to explore nakedly and honestly....this space became a place where the rest of the world disappeared, the connection between us pulsated as though it was one heart beat, i had a desire, he had a desire, and we had a desire to feed our own and each others desire....i dont remember there being a question of right or wrong ...nor do i recall there being any awareness other then the idea of giving and receiving....and wanting to know how far that feeling went....

quote:

I have never been a part of an amputation and I do not claim to truly know. I am merely trying to explore. The amputee is making a large sacrifice as a symbol of devotion. The missing body part can serve as a permanent reminder of that sacrifice. If done for the right person in the right way then this can be a frequent reminder of a great memory. For a Dom this act show true devotion, love, and sacrifice. It is not a big deal to find a sub willing to give you oral on command, but this one is so dedicated that she would go as far as cutting off a body part for you. This is my best stab at what the dynamic is that leads people to engage in acts of amputating undamaged body parts.

yes devotion, sacrifice, reminders, ie: proof. that is part of it for sure, and it touches other parts of the psyche as well,.... such as the primal part, the raw and unfettered brutal animal part where we can do something so cruel or watch something so "cruel". ....and too there is the idea of toying with reality, and the mental constructs around what we are, and what we are beyond what we are.

quote:

The larger the sacrifice the larger the larger the effect will be, but the larger the sacrifice the more debilitating it can become to future life. If my partner and I were to cut ourselves lightly and put the blood in villes and then wear each others blood viles around our necks we would be making a small ritualistic sacrifice, and would have a reminder of that sacrifice that we could carry with us. Similarly if a submissive cut a chunk out of their flesh, but did not cut the bone, and the Dom ate this flesh or something, then the scar leaves a permanent reminder for the sub, and eating meat will be give a frequent reminder to the Dom. A chunk of flesh will not be debilitating. A finger tip will make typing hard. An entire foot will require a prosthetic. If they both believe the pros out way the cons then maybe it is O.K. or is it when it is debilitating that it becomes a problem.

well that is where i would ask each person to decide for themselves what is and isnt debilitating....i think that debilitating, just as is human sexuality, is a spectrum...and we all make choices around what is debilitating, an example would be the ballet dancer who knows that her passion is like the blooming of a rose, and that there will be a time of flowering and a time of wilting and that most serious ballet dancers do become crippled in their middle years...

but they have the courage to follow their passion...as do boxers....astronaut's...glass blowers......these folks have some very serious data that reflect that following their passion is detrimental to their future lives...debilitating in fact...and yet they chose it...and we honor them for those choices...because when we watch them....the power the strength the grace of all that passion displayed before us...we are reminded of something....something that touches every one of us....its why we watch the Olympics...its why we celebrate in slow motion the knock out punch....we live vicariously through them and for one moment we feel it too....the power of following your passion to the end of the earth.

quote:

The mind is so rational it can rationalize even the irrational. In the example I gave previously the girl wanted to commit suicide and know that her body would be consumed by her lover. The girl probably hated her life and wanted to die. The Dom somehow saw this as the ultimate sacrifice given for him. She gets to die knowing she will serve someone in her final act and he gets to feel powerful and gets a freezer full of meat.

what if she loved her life?

quote:

Is assisted suicide so wrong.

i will only ever know the answer to that question when i am asked or if i need to ask

quote:

If a person is a vegetable or are so old that it hurts to function then surely Kerkorian can help with that. If someone dislikes there life so much that they can plan it for months and still go through with it then maybe it is not so bad. If they are going to die anyway then eating their body might actually be productive. The mind is so rational it can rationalize anything, even the irrational. Surely we can all agree that suicide is unhealthy and debilitating, but the fuzzy grey line was long before suicide.

god i am going to get flamed and as if i did not feel naked and vulnerable enough through my posting today i cant believe i am about to say this...but fuck...

i am not sure we do all agree that suicide is unhealthy (accept in the literal sense of the word hehe a little joke to lighten my fear) i am not sure i can agree because i have not killed myself, ....and i just cant say that in all cases that is the case.

i am not advocating suicide, nor cannibalism, nor amputation....i am just saying that from my point of view, the idea that there are absolutes and clear lines when referring to the landscape of someone else's mind seems like a waste of a perfectly good opportunity to explore the vesica pices' of humanity.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 6/28/2008 8:17:35 PM >

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:23:26 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

::partial repost from a thread on limits::

Wow. I actually remember that thread.

Poetic, romantic and quite memorable post, by the way.

quote:

For some of us, there are things beyond the flesh which we feel compelled to explore.

While I definitely agree with this, I'd say flesh is certainly involved in cannibalism.

But, yeah, as something more, it's an old practice, going by the bone record.

quote:

I don't want to live my life according to what some random strangers believe is acceptable.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:37:30 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

for me personally - caniballism, no matter how consentual, falls into a goup along with pediaphilials (sp?)

It would be interesting to hear a coherent defense for this assertion.

quote:

Perhapes there are boundaries that society as established that shouldn't be pushed.

The very word "shouldn't" relies on the cultural framework within which it occurs, as it is a word that has no denotative aspects to it outside such a construct. And a construct it is, for there is no universal that provides us with a guide to say what proper values are per se, nor does anyone adhere to it without being taught to do so. Furthermore, each generation has thought their own standards acceptable and the standards of the past and future unacceptable, although the latter generally occurs in retrospect. Similarly, each future generation will deem their own standards to be carved in stone, and ours to be unacceptable. Nothing has remained a constant throughout human history, though some things are very common.

Long story short, by your argument, it was wrong to push for abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, etc.

quote:

Like having sex with a six year old, and eating your girlfriends arm.

The former is both off topic and contrary to the terms of service to discuss, though a quick tour through the history books will show that it has not been a universal taboo among humans. As for eating your girlfriend's arm, I fail to see what the problem is, given that the context was a consenting adult doing what most humans do: go with what they want (and are willing) to do. In this case, their instincts were just atypical.

quote:

damn it - i am trying to be as liberal as i can, but i can't make consensual cannibalism even seem half way ok.

That's okay. It puts you in good company. The former pope was trying to be as liberal as he could, but he couldn't make birth control even seem half way ok. People are quite often shackled by the prevailing perceptions and prejudices of their environment, and it is just the nature of the beast.

Kudos for trying.

quote:

chopping off one finger or toe to intensify a spiritual experience i can sort of understand - but eating said finger? Nope - can't get it.

Many spiritual traditions throughout human history have involved ritual cannibalism.

In New Guinea, it remains a vital part of how they deal with the death of a loved one.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:45:32 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

OK this is devolving as a conversation, and i don't have the strength to defend my ideas against folks that want to lock me up.

Would you prefer if I have a go on your behalf¹?

Seems to me that a lot of the arguments are contingent on some assumption that we can and should act on the basis of how our future selves would have found to be best upon looking back (or, actually, looking at the present that only exists as a consequence of those choices that were made).

On the basis of that assumption, how can we defend procreation?

We become the person we will be by the choices we make today, and if we cannot be accountable for our choices, we have no business making them in the first place. And if we are not allowed to make our choices, then the person we become is disjoint from the person we were, and we are in effect then in a continous state of dying, a very protracted form of suffering that denies personal growth and freedom.

To posit that as a healthy alternative seems irrefutably ludicrous.

Health,
al-Aswad.

¹ These are my thoughts on it, not a presumption to speak for you or play the white knight.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:50:08 PM

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There is a question of surviving. If it comes down to surviving, and I cannot find anything to eat, and its a choice of dying or eating a person, I'll be eating a person......its no longer about morality, its about survival...

When its not about survival, its just completely wrong to consider it in any glorified light......

Amputation is a travesty of the flesh.......sometimes its necessary to save the whole, say for gangrene setting in for diabetics who lose their feet, but its still not something that should bge glorified or promoted......

I'm sorry, if your 9 finger amy and your partner ate your finger, that doesn't make me a woman hater.....That makes me concerned your going to make worst decisions because of the shrooms you poisoned yourself/partner with.....

And I have no choice but to be judgemental, you asked me to be, I rather of just avoided the whole topic, but no, Amy wanted to hear the truth......so, tell me how you cut your fingers off and tell me how it rationally makes sense, and you can explain then explain that to a psychiatrist, and explain how you won't do this again in the future? ;0

Because I listened and someone else called you a 9-finger, but not you....and sorry, our posts on this board means diddly......you want rational or you want fake.....you cannot have it two ways, I'd like to ignore ya, but if your going to go waving your 9 fingers in my face and say see what I did with a big grin on your face singing koom-ba----ya......I'm going to be calling for the straight-jacket.....

So, yo asking for a rubber room or not? ;0

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 8:54:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tifmqKz34V4

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- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 9:01:10 PM

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You know what bothers me the most about this, is that people glorify stupidity. Its one thing to make a valuable sacrifice to your country and lose body parts in a war, etc.....I know a mother of a friend who was a violinist, and she lost a finger so she couldn't play the violin she loved anymore, but it was for WW-2, I know veterans who lose body parts, and its a travesty of war, but to do it for the things you stated is just point blank wrong....

Moreover, trying to set up a scenario to be forced into cannabalism because then your falling into the idea of its all about survival is wrong too......

And people do lose fingers and stuff all the time, but its not intentional, there is a huge difference between accidentally losing digits to extreme cold (mountain climbing), accidentally, and intentionally cutting off your finger because "its only flesh".....

I hear the nazi's made tons of lamp shades from the skin of humans, hey, "its only flesh"........

I'm sorry, flesh houses your soul, its not just flesh, its actually kind of important......um....duh....

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 9:01:11 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

ok so i guess ill share, even though i am scared too, because i dont really want to be judged....

Thank you for sharing. It is a common misconception that anything that "extreme" must necessarily be a problem and indicative of a mental health issue and so forth. I've tried to challenge that premise from time to time, but sometimes it takes a concrete example to the contrary to actually show people that their assumption is wrong. You are one of the posters that I regard highly here, and I'm certain others feel the same. In that, your contribution by way of this disclosure is, simply put, invaluable.

As a side note, I've seen profiles specifically advertising the desire to do similar things.

Health,
al-Aswad.

aloha aswad, a pleasure to meet you,

i think you are right about the common misconception being that there is a mental illness, and i honestly do understand it....20 years ago i was not thinking like this, in fact about 19 years ago i remember having very judgmental thoughts about the harder core SMers in the scene because i just did not understand them. To my way of thinking, they were going down a path that would leave them separate from themselves, and they would need to do more and more extreme things to get off.

and in a way i suppose i was right, because i find myself, always going deeper, always pushing my own limits....but what i did not understand back then is that the things i do now are not just about getting off or getting high..what i realized was that if i can release my attachments to how things are supposed to be....and release my addiction to being right...i can be free

and in that freedom i can explore anything i want....i can connect more intimately with other human souls...i could love in a more deeply and soul satisfying way then i ever dreamed possible.

back then i was a prodom, i had a strange ability to fall in love with my clients, i enjoyed the kinks and flaws of their character, i loved them deeply even though it was briefly, it was love...real love...i was being paid money yet it was real love....and so i started to ask myself the question...what is love?

what i came up with is that love for me is asking the scary questions, wanting to see the hidden and darker parts, wanting to create a safe and sacred space where someone, a total stranger, could feel accepted for the total being he was....and for just one shining moment he could feel completely and wholy....loved.

i don't think all pro doms come into it with that frame of mind but i am guessing a fair few of them do, and there are so many reasons why that does not make sense...but that is love for ya....it rarely makes sense.

right now there is another thread asking the question what do you value out of bdsm and i guess my answer would have to be, learning that i am free to love, and learning how to be free to love.

thank you for your kind words....you have no idea how scared i was.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 9:08:53 PM

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

sorry, I'm very judgemental about certain things. I have love for humans, but if your no longer human and a savage, you need to be protected from yourself....

if your going to go waving your 9 fingers in my face and say see what I did with a big grin on your face singing koom-ba----ya......I'm going to be calling for the straight-jacket.....

It doesn't take more than one person to find it wrong to be wrong......tell me your 9 finger amy, I dare ya.....

I'm not the only one here who knows the difference between right and wrong.....

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 9:10:46 PM

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tifmqKz34V4

I'm sorry, are you trying to fuck with me because I give a damn?

I'm sorry......Your not amusing....you know the difference between right from wrong, and you are....WRONG!!

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 9:21:21 PM

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww
I'm sorry......Your not amusing....

It must suck to live in such an unfair world -- a world where the bitches on this thread are so fucking dumb they give props to incoherent losers like me, and only your new long-haired boyfriend is brilliant enough to recognize your genius.

I may be incoherent, and wrong... but my world doesn't suck.

I'm working right now, because I'm flying to a date on Tuesday. Why are you spending Saturday night typing ugly things about women on a message board?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

RE: When does BDSM become unhealthy or destructive - 6/28/2008 9:25:03 PM

Posts: 49
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline

well that is where i would ask each person to decide for themselves what is and isnt debilitating....i think that debilitating, just as is human sexuality, is a spectrum...and we all make choices around what is debilitating, an example would be the ballet dancer who knows that her passion is like the blooming of a rose, and that there will be a time of flowering and a time of wilting and that most serious ballet dancers do become crippled in their middle years...

Please seriously ask yourself this question before doing anything that will cause permanent ramifications. Maybe it is worth it for the ballet dancer. Maybe it is worth it for you, but you better be sure, because you don't get any do overs.

in reference to the girl wanting to sacrifice her own life you asked.

what if she loved her life?

Then this might be the ultimate submission, but people are discussing that on another thread.
Even if she loved her life and was doing it out of service and submission for a Dom she loved, then I believe the Dominant should have loved her enough to not let her end a life that she loves.

Surely we can all agree that suicide is unhealthy and debilitating, but the fuzzy grey line was long before suicide.

i am not sure we do all agree that suicide is unhealthy (accept in the literal sense of the word hehe a little joke to lighten my fear) i am not sure i can agree because i have not killed myself, ....and i just cant say that in all cases that is the case.

i am not advocating suicide, nor cannibalism, nor amputation....i am just saying that from my point of view, the idea that there are absolutes and clear lines when referring to the landscape of someone else's mind seems like a waste of a perfectly good opportunity to explore the vesica pices' of humanity.

I meant that statement in its literal sense. It is physically unhealthy to kill oneself. Mentally and spiritually I believe it is a problem as well, but as I said before the mind is so rational it can rationalize anything, even the irrational. It may be possible to argue that suicide is not unhealthy to your spiritual being, but I think it would be a weak argument. Mentally, your brain stops sending electronic impulses when you die and that seems unhealthy. Spiritually, if we are on this planet for a reason then we probably should not leave this earth early. At a minimum the suicidal person would miss an opportunity to grow further. At a maximum their soul is damned forever in fire and brimstone, forced to repeatedly witness the pain and damage that their loved ones suffered, or reincarnated at a lower level than they were previously. Furthermore their suicide is likely to have negative consequences on other peoples lives. Say a younger sibling that had looked up to them or a parent that blames themselves for the suicide. etc.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

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