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RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 4:58:42 PM

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Batshalom, you made three points in response to me. I'd like to address them all.

1) I don't see morality as a subjective thing. Subjective morals allow for all sorts of crimes to be "moral." While there might be a blindingly powerful social exception for what couples do, I think it is objectively right to pay mind to what others are doing.

2) You're right - When people receive advice they can choose to be gracious or not. This is also a human right, to respond to stimuli however you please.

3) No one ever wants to hear that they aren't perfect. They never want to hear about how they're wrong. In giving someone advice you are always suggesting they are imperfect in some manner. People don't want to hear it. Even the people who understand no one is perfect don't want to hear it.

Giving advice = explaining how, in one way or another, they are wrong. Playing with fire means you'll get burned, but I can choose to play with fire.

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(in reply to batshalom)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 5:49:07 PM

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I would say that I wasn't invited into their dynamic, nor for My opinion. If that particular submissive brought the issue to the boards, I would certainly offer My perspective, and give the advice that the person asked for. Otherwise, it's not My business.

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RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 5:59:08 PM

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OP:
I am with the majority of others. What is one persons horror is anothers delight. When we see photos of a masochist after a particularly intense session... we can either see extreme brutality or we can see masochistic bliss. Its your take, you have only seen the photos. The intention and the consent are what makes a difference. If someone had told your girl back then that she would have had a problem, she would likely ot have taken it well either. You assume that the Dominant wanted it and the submissive did not... which is not always the case.
Assuming never goes over well, and especially in this lifestyle assuming how a kink worked for you will work for them is a long stretch. The scorn could also have come from you contacting a submissive, without her masters permission and questioning HIS decisions. A male Dom aproaching a taken female sub or slave to criticize their current master is OFTEN taken badly. It sounds like you are setting up for a "poaching" mail once she started questioning things, and then setting yourself up for the clear better coice than her current Dom.

DV

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VampiresLair

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 7:41:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
What about to culture atrocities like female genital mutilation?

or the mutilation of infant males' genitalia (circumcision)?

oh wait ... (sorry, couldn't resist)

As to the OP, unsolicited advice is not always welcomed. Since the pics were posted where you could see them, I don't think you did anything wrong in responding to them however they struck you. On the other hand, I don't think she/he/they did anything wrong in telling you to MYOB. You saw, you commented, they responded. ~shrug~

< Message edited by piopunahele -- 7/11/2008 7:48:29 PM >

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 7:50:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

2) You're right - When people receive advice they can choose to be gracious or not. This is also a human right, to respond to stimuli however you please.
3) No one ever wants to hear that they aren't perfect. They never want to hear about how they're wrong. In giving someone advice you are always suggesting they are imperfect in some manner. People don't want to hear it. Even the people who understand no one is perfect don't want to hear it.
Giving advice = explaining how, in one way or another, they are wrong. Playing with fire means you'll get burned, but I can choose to play with fire.

I see it this way ... it's not gracious to give unsolicited advice in the first place. Who am I to inflict my morals and ethics upon someone else, if not asked to do so? Explaining how they are wrong? That sounds very condescending to me - you don't know the facts or the whole story yet you are offering advice.

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 8:15:54 PM

mbes

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Going back to the thread title, not all subs want or need protection. And of those who do want their dom's protection, that doesn't necessarily translate to wanting random strangers to "protect" them. Being sub doesn't mean that we aren't able to make rational decisions. If someone wants to get nekkid online, I would assume that they've taken the risks and benefits into account. It's demeaning to assume otherwise. (Ok, I'm human; some things people do make me sure they don't have good sense. In that case, they'll either learn or they won't.)
There's also no saying what offers protection for someone. What protects me may stifle another. What gives me claustrophobia may well be just the level of comfort another longs for.

(in reply to NeedingMore220)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 8:39:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: piopunahele

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
What about to culture atrocities like female genital mutilation?

or the mutilation of infant males' genitalia (circumcision)?

oh wait ... (sorry, couldn't resist)
~shrug~

No Ma'am, female genital mutilation is not the same as circumcision. Do not be fulled by the term. Removing the clitoris is SOLELY to reduce sexual pleasure (sometimes to the point where its painful) to "encourage" women not to commit infidelity. Male circumcision creates no pain later in life and is a cleanliness procedure.

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to piopunahele)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 8:49:12 PM

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Needingmore,

While I agree that its not the classiest thing, and even when the advice or warning is given respectfully it is poorly received does not make it wrong to give. The act of giving your opinion simply isn't wrong. There's a time and a way to do it right, though.

Even if the advice giver is wrong, the act of involving yourself in public situations isn't. Would you wrong the man who owns the gas station at the hill of the mountain for suggesting the driver be careful as the guard rails fell in the last storm? Maybe the driver is a professional guard rail inspector (sent there by the city), and as such is already VERY competent and aware of the situation. Maybe the driver is some guy driving to the mountains for some fresh air, and would otherwise have driven off the hill. Not knowing the facts is irrelevant to attempting to spare people from unwanted situations.

I'm not saying it's socially accepted to step in. I'm also not saying everyone should. I am saying that it isn't wrong to give advice.

For that matter, it isn't wrong to be mad at people for giving advice (although a bit immature). I (The general "I")have the freedom to comment. You (the general "you") have the freedom to disregard, disagree, or become enraged and curse on the internet.

Edit to add:

What I meant by "explaining how they are wrong" is that is the way people interpret all advice.

I am simple man. I try to take the best option, every time. Whenever someone suggests I take another course of action they are implying my choice was wrong. Does that make my statement more clear?

< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 7/11/2008 8:51:45 PM >

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The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/11/2008 9:42:18 PM

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It absolutely does, HeavensKeeper. I understand your POV more clearly now, thank you. I give my opinion all the time, so perhaps I'm not as different from you as I might have thought with the one example given on this thread. I definitely would warn of a road hazard ahead... sometimes making a slight self-deprecating remark like 'oh, but surely you're a better driver than I and you wouldn't have a problem with it."... saying such to deflect any sting my remark may cause.

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 1:02:06 AM

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Of course, and that's part of giving advice the right way at the right time. A humble pose and a thoughtful consideration.

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The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to NeedingMore220)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 2:40:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
No Ma'am, female genital mutilation is not the same as circumcision. Do not be fulled by the term. Removing the clitoris is SOLELY to reduce sexual pleasure (sometimes to the point where its painful) to "encourage" women not to commit infidelity. Male circumcision creates no pain later in life and is a cleanliness procedure.

I'm pretty sure circumcision is quite painful. The infant screams pretty horribly. He did not consent to this mutilation. I am aware that circumcision is widely practiced here and is touted as a cleanliness matter. Amazingly, Canadians (and most others) have no problems with cleanliness uncircumcised. I was merely making an observation that cultural conditioning plays a huge role in which mutilations are acceptable and which are not. It is not so much that unconsentual mutilation is "bad" or "wrong," just the unconsentual (and sometimes consentual) mutilations that we disagree with.

Mutilation: to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts

For the record, I cannot understand the idea of female gential mutilation and am opposed to it. Being raised Christian in the US, I am accustomed to the majority of the men I know being circumcised. My Master (who was born in Canada) is as appalled by circumcision as I am to female genital mutilation. food for thought

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 3:00:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Don't presume your issues and dangers are the same to others. Even if they are taking big risks- it is their risks to take. Smile and shut up.

And sunshine- would you interrupt a scene just so you could check on whether that woman really was ok with having her skin broken open?

Well hey there LA,

of course not... I wouldn't interrupt a scene. Not at a party or a convention or a gathering... But if it was a scene that was accessible to the general public, like ohhh I don't know the coffee shop or the library (which is where I sometimes read these message boards), you bet I would. I'd discreetly check in with the woman... Sometimes people don't know the questions to ask, and I'm not gonna be shy if I think someone might be doing something unsafe or is having something unsafe done to her. Which by the way is different from something risque...

And I'll tell you, several women have thanked me for my stance. Sure I've had a few MYOB responses, but the 4 or so women who have been kept out of harm's way because someone spoke up are worth those MYOBs.

Presuming this guy was not being a jerk about it (he doesn't seem like it), why wouldn't we want to know that our community is looking out for its own? What good is a community if we can't stand up to self scrutiny and concern?

Go ahead... burn me to a crisp here.

peace and passion,
sunshine

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 6:18:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: piopunahele

I'm pretty sure circumcision is quite painful. The infant screams pretty horribly.

Not all infants scream. Both of my sons slept through it when they had it done.

SM

(in reply to piopunahele)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 8:52:05 AM

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You were a gentleman and very considerate, but it was their choice to expose her in this way. Possibly they have not thought it through; possibly they have; who knows?

I'm sorry your show of concern was not met in the spirit in which it was sent.

candystripper

(in reply to WMPerv)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 9:59:52 AM

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i concur with HeavansKepper.
My internet is amiss so i was unable to quote NeedingMore220 in my attempt to state i too do exactly the same thing.
On the flip of that i welcome a respectfl apporach when another feels i am doing something that needs further review. My usual response is: "Ohhhhh my gosh, i never looked at it like that."
As un-PC as it is, and never the matter if we (nor they) like it, in a matter of speaking, we are our brothers' keeper.
To the OP, imho, You were spot on.
b.~

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 1:03:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Presuming this guy was not being a jerk about it (he doesn't seem like it), why wouldn't we want to know that our community is looking out for its own? What good is a community if we can't stand up to self scrutiny and concern?

No burning :) I'm glad you responded.

To me the problem is that so often people really are simply shoving their ego all over the place and deciding what I need for myself/supposedly strong subs who really just want attention and drama under the GUISE of "looking out for the community." I don't need Captain Save-a-Ho.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 7/12/2008 1:04:28 PM >

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RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 1:28:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Presuming this guy was not being a jerk about it (he doesn't seem like it), why wouldn't we want to know that our community is looking out for its own? What good is a community if we can't stand up to self scrutiny and concern?

No burning :) I'm glad you responded.

To me the problem is that so often people really are simply shoving their ego all over the place and deciding what I need for myself/supposedly strong subs who really just want attention and drama under the GUISE of "looking out for the community." I don't need Captain Save-a-Ho.

I agree, most of the time advice offered is because of the ego of the person "knowing" what is best for those they give it to. Criticism and scrutiny should be expected, and if there is real concern it should be shared; I find it funny that many of the people that offer their opinions, advice, and criticisms often despise it when they receive the same from others.

Out of curiousity, is that Captain related to Chief Slap-a-Ho?

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RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 1:36:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Out of curiousity, is that Captain related to Chief Slap-a-Ho?

Twin brothers, seperated at birth. The captain lived with the mayor's family and was given all he could ever desire. He wanted for nothing. He attended the best universities and had much free time to devote to the the protection of ho's.

His arch nemesis, and secretly his brother, was forced into the "system". The system was a monster, and that's what it created! Hustling around orphanages until he was spat out, at 18. He worked when he could, and sold smack when he couldn't. A rough and callous world left him no time for pleasantries...

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The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to Thadius)

RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 5:25:04 PM

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So, who gave you tights & a cape and made you protector of all subkind? I'm sure you mean well, but just because you have an idea of what is right for you and yours doesn't mean you know what is right for me, mine, or anyone elses. The sheer arrogance of thinking you know what is right and good for everyone leads me to wonder what kind of ego trip you are on.

If you were to extend this sort of unsolicited advice to me, or espaecially My Lord, you would be met with hostility and blunt rejection.

Also, I hardly think that genital mutilation or spousal abuse are on the same scale as two consenting adults exercising the right to be kinky. Come on folks. Get some perspective.

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RE: Protecting your submissive - 7/12/2008 6:20:36 PM

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Stormslave,

How can you ask for perspective by suggesting we not compare one situation to another similar one? We've established that many times advice is not "needed" when given, and that people have every right to respond with hostility and blunt rejection.

Making a thoughful suggestion is not the same as someone telling you "BDSM: yer doin it wrong". The OP's original statement, as I understand it, would sound more like "Excuse me, but I was wondering if you considered the ramifications later in life of having nude pictures, including the face, on the internet? I know a few people who have been discriminated against for that reason."

The real question here is "should people mind their own business"?

Ask America in 1938.

Not involving yourself when you see something wrong is an option. Involving yourself when something is wrong is also an option. Treating kind strangers who are looking out for you and yours like shit is also an option.

Its important to keep your mind open. You may be wrong and they may be right. Sometimes you have to change. That's my stance.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to StormsSlave)

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