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Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 7:49:02 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I’ve been doing a lot of thinking since last evening. There are two threads running on the forums that have kept my brain busyish the last few days while my body has been busy with actual work stuff.   First of all, let me say that I really do not want to name names, simply because A. I have not asked anyone’s permission B. their identity does not matter in the big picture C. I don’t want to make them feel judged as that is not my intent D. any behaviour I am discussing is something I see in others here, often, and certainly in myself, at some point in time.  

Yesterday I was thinking about posters that constantly bring personal life drama issues to the boards to the point they become known almost specifically for that, and what their motivation might be. Then you have other posters that are almost guaranteed to have something, usually very negative and snarky, about it. Yes, one of those that I’ve been guilty of. We veil our negative snark as “helpful comments”. Granted, I know that, at least for myself, my style of communication can often be misunderstood but there certainly are moments that I use that to my advantage. I am working on eliminating that.

  Anyway, being the observer that I am, even of myself, I’ve been thinking at this particular aspect of the forums off and on for awhile now. I think there are several things at play that interest me. The S&M aspect to be sure is there, whether intentional or not. I think some people, even if they cannot admit it even to themselves, purposely seek that public whipping. At some level they crave that sort of interaction. OR, not so much the verbal whipping they crave but all the sympathy and emails on the side that are consoling and agreeing with them. Which of course they make subtle, or not so much so, references to, within the thread they are getting the whipping in……...hmmmm.

Which leads me to another couple of interesting thoughts. All too often I see, when describing physical S&M play……”I don’t like xxx toy, or xxx type of play, because I feel like a life support system for xxx. Which means I (bigbaddom/mely) sort am serving the little slave/sub sort, and that’s not what I am here for!!” YET……now try and follow my meandering here…..some of those VERY SAME people will be the first to jump into an “oh poor me” thread and verbally whip the hell out of the slave/sub……over and over again. Thread after similar thread. So, if masochist wants that verbal whipping/consoling and consciously or, more likely, subconsciously, continues to create threads manipulate said Whippers……. Aren’t they then, using those Whippers to satisfy their desires. A life support for a verbal beating.  

Second interesting thought I had about this. Why are we, the verbal Whippers, drawn to those threads. Well, after watching quite a few posters over a few years, and myself……..unfortunately, I have come to a conclusion that much of the time, the threads we get the nastiest in, and posters we get the nastiest towards, are reflecting back a facet of ourselves we really don’t like. Even if we would argue that truth to the death…. Usually because it is a truth we are completely not ready to see in ourselves. 

Now, I am not saying either is completely a terrible thing. Especially if we are growing from the experience. Even though, I think that if we are attacking another, it is probably a strong sign we don’t want to see it in ourselves.   I don’t know about anyone else, but watching myself, and my reactions to other’s words on here has been an enormously good self growth tool. Even the occasional love note from Madame Eleven has given me cause to stop and think. Uncomfortable as it may be.

  I was going to be vague about individuals yet give the two threads and personality examples but I couldn’t find a way to not make it appear personal or potentially hurtful so I removed those references.

Feel free to pick this apart and take it where ever you want....

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/7/2008 7:50:28 AM >

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:07:37 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		You know what. It is probably your whoremoans kicking in.

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:08:10 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

Yesterday I was thinking about posters that constantly bring personal life drama issues to the boards to the point they become known almost specifically for that, and what their motivation might be.

I can only speak for myself here but i will be the first to hold my hand up and say i  have been guilty of this. My motivation? Honestly? To gain validation and soft soaping from others.
 
quote:

Then you have other posters that are almost guaranteed to have something, usually very negative and snarky, about it. Yes, one of those that I’ve been guilty of. We veil our negative snark as “helpful comments”.

Again i'm guilty of this. I will say though that some posters i don't feel are being snarky even when they come across like they are. I think some here are just fans of 'tough love'.
 
It's funny this coming up as a thread now as i have just had a brief exchange of cmails with a person i have often felt was being snarky to me when i have posted previously. I now see that really that person was just straight talking to me, but i didn't want to hear it. I wanted to hear fluffy 'you will be oks' and 'poor you's'.
Personally when i have sat back and reread the thread a few weeks / days / months later i can always see the sound advice the 'snarky' person gave and wish i had picked up on it earlier.
I think the major thing to remember here is that everyone gives advice in different ways, harsh, soft, in between. Also some people respond better to gentle advice, some better to harsh advice. Its all about everyone being different.

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:09:20 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I don't have much to add right now to your thoughts Lady T, other than coming across like a terrible sycophant and saying that your wisdom in this post pretty much rocks my world.
 
the.dark.
(.whoisacompletesuckuptothebeautiful.)

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:19:16 AM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		*FR*
Nice obseravtions and introspection, LaTigresse.  Forums are, to me, a great deal like talk radio.  People often insert their $0.02 in order to be helpful but equally as often they do it so they can feel superior to the others who post.  They do not care if anything get clarified, they just want to have a rip snortin grand ol' snarkfest.  I've proboably done it.  I know I have bristled at a few comments here and there (some of which had nothing to do with me) and allowed myself to be infected with "smackdown syndrome."

Yeah some people want to air out their dirty laundry or (insert other appropriate metaphor for shameless plea for attention here) but then some people bring their drama here for legitimately constructive reasons also.  I think more than half the time they do not even know which motivation it is that is actually driving them, but generally you can count on someone to give their own opinion on the subject.  I personally am semi addicted to making those posts where I theorize as to peoples motivations...  I try to be good natured about it most of the time, and phrase things light-heartedly but I know even that gets misunderstood. 

If those who claim to have a low tolerance for BS actually did just ignore those threads that were full of it instead of pointing it out to everyone, maybe it would be a kinder and gentler forums, but it would also be boring.  There is some service being performed in smacking each other down, though.  It really does make some of us sit back and re-examine ourselves..  I appreciate the opportunity to weed out a self-delusion or two when it arises... most of the time, hehe.

Despite the obvious flaws though, I still think these forums and the people in them are great. 

< Message edited by Maxwell67 -- 8/7/2008 8:46:04 AM >

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:38:09 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		There is at times, a very definite angry edge to mine, especially if you have ever seen me wander into one of the CM chat rooms.  I allow a bit of my "anger management skills" to fall away and I let go although Mod 11 does watch me pretty close so I have to learn to be really really subtle.

Part of me wishes that I had found a place like this when I was new.  I spent years floundering around listening to much of the bullshit out there about bdsm relationships as if they were some alien species vastly separated than any other sort of relationship.  If you follow my posts, there are times I act like a caring adult to a child, I kneel down and talk softly at their level, trying to use words and concepts they will understand.  I do that for people who are clearly ready to learn.  For others, those who cherish their illusions and hold them tightly, I at times use as brutal a clue X 4 as I can to smash those illusions hoping that they will finally take the time to look into the mirror of self reflection.

And yes, I think we get "set off" by those who most remind us of ourselves.  I think I have been as open and honest as anyone here about the shit I have had to get over and grow through as well as the mistakes I have made.  I do my best not to post from an ivory tower but to point down at the mud on my boots to show I came from the same place.

I do so because I find it sad that the best bdsm community I have ever found is right here on collarme.  It is a wicked blend of people active in various scenes, private players who got it right, and all sorts of others.  The perspectives here are varied but many of us have been around long enough that we know who is and isn't full of shit and we don't allow to much bullshit to spew forth without someone calling someone on it.  Hell, LA has taken me to task a few times as have others and frankly, I am a better man for it.

Sure, some of it is chest thumping, some of it is posturing but overall, I still think this place rocks because there are posts like this one to make us all stop and look in our own personal mirrors and ask "what the fuck are you doing"!

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:48:27 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for putting words to feelings I've had.

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 8:59:25 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		I will apologize to Lucky Albatross in advance because I am paraphrasing a thought she passed along several years ago that I find relevant to this thread.  I am not sure if it was on her Emeraldslave or LA name.  It went something like this or at least this is what I got out of it (right or wrong):

When I post, I give thought to how others (op or posters) will process it and then how they might process it later against me. 

It went something like that....sorry if I slaughtered it LA--I cannot find the exact post but it struck me at the time and still does.  It is NOT my intention to misrepresent your words.  Since that time, I probably only post half  or less of my responses (my cm ID has changed through the years).  There are topics that provoke more emotional triggers in me than others. However, it is a slippery slope to divulge too much information or how we deliver a response on these boards and not have people judge to some degree because it is human nature (except, of course, for the people who have never lied or never judge anyone soley based from observations)  I hope we all try to avoid the two, but it doesnt mean it will always happen in our perfect world.

Not knowing the other person's state of mind or out of my own lacking, I many times regret pressing the "ok" button instead of delete.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/7/2008 9:16:50 AM >

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 9:08:17 AM   
CruelDesires


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As the sand fall thru the hourglass... So does the days of our CM forum lives.

Totally US thing to those of our brethren who are over the seas.

C-D

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Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 9:13:42 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Days of our lives reference?

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 9:18:54 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Guiding Light serves the purpose as well:

Some people have lows
Some people have highs
Everybodes feet is on the ground
and heads gonna fly......at least I think that is what their current theme song says.

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A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 9:28:14 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		i wonder sometimes if people get caught up in the words and actually forget that there is a real person sitting behind that screen - maybe vulnerable, maybe hiding behind their words for validation or a verbal whipping, reaching out to a group of other people in the hope that what theyre feeling and going through makes some sort of sense.

i actually wince when i see people getting trashed - oddly i dont mind getting flamed - i dont think im into verbal whipping or public humiliation hmmm! - no im not - i get upset on other peoples behalf though.

i did catch myself thinking a while back that i was craving some attention from somewhere, anywhere - it didnt matter - i managed to recognise that and stop myself from posting a topic simply for that reason.

and i do think that on the whole people are treated with respect here, allowed to be themselves and have their moments of stupidity with a degree of good humour and kindness.

i think that on the whole there are guys who need the interraction, who need to abreact and need attention for attentions sake because for the most part, if youre single and sitting alone behind a lonely screen and action is slow elsewhere, at least you can have your existance validated on somewhere like here.  however that validation is sought.

and its threads like this that make you stop and think a bit.



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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 9:39:54 AM   
restlessdreamer


Posts: 60
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		When I was a forum moderator/site admin on another site - I used to challenge posters to encourage each other and build each other up in positive ways. If they couldn't do that, I would give them a chance to modify their post before I removed it completely. I admit, I policed the forum greatly - and what amazed me (and scared me) was the fact that for weeks, the forums went quiet.

It was horrible and I thought I was trodding down the wrong path, that I was being too heavy handed and I had killed part of the site. But over time, posting picked up and new posters started threads and offering their input, finally feeling safe that they would not be attacked. It was actually a thrill to see the 'regular bashers' take that challenge up and even more thrilling to see them actually content to revise the way in which they addressed other members and note a more positive change in their own thinking patterns.

I have since left that site and it took only one week for the bashing and attacks to begin anew.

So, how does this experience relate to this thread? I would be tempted to put that challenge out to everyone here even though CM is an entirely different dynamic than what I am accustomed to.

I don't think that each and every 'poor me' post is a cry for a verbal whipping, though I can see where it may apply to some. I wonder too (just as LaTigresse said), is that really a consentual interaction when they get what they want? Or is it like public play, where 'vanilla' people are drawn non-consentually into play that they don't even understand? (I'm just using that as a metaphor because I can't think of anything better at the moment) Pretty crafty manipulation, if it is.

I can see too, that the more regular posters here are tired of seeing the same thread, worded differently, over and over and over ...and ... over. What's common sense to them, just isn't for the poster. There's a sense of guarded defense from emotional vampires - but really, is it that hard to offer a kind word, or some encouragement? That, has always baffled me.

It seems easier to 'be straight and blunt' (a nice way of being an asshole) with someone on the internet than it is to be positive, (dare I say) gentle, encouraging, understanding and still be firm in your contribution.

Is it because people are are afraid of facing that " facet of ourselves we really don’t like" or is it because showing sympathy, empathy or any kind of softness to the 'poor me' poster means showing weakness or giving a piece of ourselves to someone that may be perceived as an emotional vampire?

I think this is a phenomenon of the internet community. People trip over themselves to bash others, step on them and crush them like the 'noobs' they are. Pack mentality seems to kick in and cliques form, it's far too tempting and simple to smash another human being when you can't see them and it's something I personally, still hope will change.

Maybe it's not anything that complicated. Maybe it's just that the internet provides an anonymous venue to dump your  'shit', all the negativity and hopelessness that seems to pervade our real lives and the world today. There is an opportunity here to change all that though. There is an opportunity to expect more from yourself, regardless of the anonymity. To treat each other with a new level of respect and understanding. There is an opportunity here to make a difference, one post at a time.

(Oh, my. I really didn't mean to go on like this... my apologies for rambling!)

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 10:05:22 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Okay, my mind is mush.  This is probably the thread I misapplied earlier and have taken wayyyyyyyyyyyyy out of context:

whoops, definitely one of those times I should have not of hit the "ok" button :(

my apologies to LA and all

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/7/2008 10:41:23 AM >

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 10:20:01 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: restlessdreamer
I think this is a phenomenon of the internet community. People trip over themselves to bash others, step on them and crush them like the 'noobs' they are. Pack mentality seems to kick in and cliques form, it's far too tempting and simple to smash another human being when you can't see them and it's something I personally, still hope will change.

Maybe it's not anything that complicated. Maybe it's just that the internet provides an anonymous venue to dump your  'shit', all the negativity and hopelessness that seems to pervade our real lives and the world today.

Bingo on both counts.  Yes, it's a part of human's pack mentality... we tend to become both more aggressive and more defensive when in groups.  Add to that the anonymity of the internet so there is no social break to that effect and... well....  you get this.  And you don't need to read the collarme site to see it.  The same sort of behavior appears on pretty much any internet discussion board where people will have strong emotional attachment to the topic.

It happens, as you said, because the community accepts it.  Strong moderation as you stated, can make a new community standard.  But also as you stated, it'll rever to it's default position as soon as that moderating influence is gone.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 10:39:30 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		oh ive just thought of something.... prompted by restlessdreamer - oops its gone, hang on!

ah yes.. sometimes its more comfortable to flame something than to show empathy - because to show empathy would perhaps make it look like the ridiculous statment the OP had made was something the responder could own to or understand become a sympathist and therefore be seen in a less than a flattering light.

pulling up our skirts and screeching at some risky assertion immediately dissasociates people from it... the no, not my way atall - im much more informed/sensible/dedicated.. whatever -  is perhaps part of what goes on too.

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 11:10:41 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I want to thank everyone for their thoughts.

I really didn't want to bash anyone or any one style of posting. I was just looking at some familiar issues in a different light.

Because I've always been a tough love kind of person, even in real life, I enjoy that style of posting. I also have, and enjoy, an obnoxious sense of humour. I tend to not take myself or anyone, very seriously. So, as a general result others who's words reflect a similar outlook I tend to cut a little more slack before I want to verbally bitch slap them.

On the flip side, I've always hated the dramalama laden, overly emotional, sensitive, whiny, dirty laundry airing........stuff. I must say, I tend to want to do some creative duct tape play with that sort of person.

Neither of the above reactions are something to be proud of. Sooooo, in my never ending question to find a way to make LeeAnn a smarter, kinder, more self aware, snarky bitch.........I've been trying to take my gut reactions and look a little more closely.

I just thought I would be really obnoxious and share some of my musings. I certainly don't want to try and toss a wet blanket over anyone's party because I rather enjoy the diversity here.

I still REEEEEEEEEEEALLY miss reading Domiguys posts!!!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 11:32:35 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

People trip over themselves to bash others, step on them and crush them like the 'noobs' they are. Pack mentality seems to kick in and cliques form, it's far too tempting and simple to smash another human being when you can't see them and it's something I personally, still hope will change.

How the hell can this happen? How can people be "crushed" or even "bashed" based on words exchanged on this or any internet site? Here's a place where the 'off key' or 'delete profile' button is the ultimate safe word. Obviously some people have used it; I'd suggest that anyone who feels crushed by words and opinion should do the same. Without being able to cope with the disembodied words on a computer there is little chance of coping with the corporal body or having a relationship with a person saying those words, truth or insult.

Way too much credibility is assumed by the number of posts a person has as well as the alleged life they represent they lead. On the other hand, a site representing itself as a place where sadists, masochists, and those that wish they were; could meet is bound to attract people who derive pleasure by putting themselves in situations where they can live out those desires. In some cases it can be the only place they can as an escape, outside the scrutiny of their significant other. In other cases, there are some sadistically oriented individuals frustrated by their life, living in their parents basement, in between jobs, whose only chance at acting on their desire is the fresh meat that presents itself regularly on CM. 

quote:

It happens, as you said, because the community accepts it.  Strong moderation as you stated, can make a new community standard.
It's been said countless times - what "community"; better yet, what "standard"? How about a standard of self confidence? How about being able to deal with the answers to any question or situation you decide to post even if you don't like them or they aren't in line with the acceptance and/or sympathy you hoped to get from this 'community' when you hit 'ok' button?

Drama? The soap opera reference is spot on. Similar down to the story lines of dead wifes/husbands, lost loves, back stabbing friends, life altering medical conditions, and car crashes. I think there has even been an amnesia victim or two. At the very least amnesia in the modern version, repressed childhood memories. Personally, I find all the characters fascinating. My favorites being the ones taunted into a 'heated' debate. I get a mental 'sadistic pleasure' fix regularly from CM.

Yes, I'll admit to using CM as an outlet for my east coast based sense of sarcasm. I'll post from my represented experience. Whether its true or not is up to the reader; as is believing or not believing it represents reality. In fact, anytime challenged I'm the first to represent that beth and I are both old, bald, sweaty, fat guys wearing Cheetos stained white-tee shirts and boxer shorts living in our parents basement with 6 cats, 2 dogs, a refrigerator full of cheap beer with a box of tissues nearby.

I find it hard to accept that this site is stacked with an over abundance of 'submissives' who allow word posted by anyone to dominant their emotions or feelings in a negative way. If anything read on the internet makes you feel your life is worse that it was before you logged on; it is time push your safe-word 'log-off' button. 

Meanwhile, I'll continue to have a CM window open all day just not to miss anything.

Hello my name is Merc - I'm a CM drama addict.

(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 12:03:31 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm going to have to disagree Mercnbeth.  People get hurt by other people's words all the time.  This shouldn't be a news flash to anyone.  Civility and courtesy exist to help grease the gears and enable us all to get along better.  These shouldn't be new concepts to anyone.

Insofar as "what community" and "what standards", while I discredit the idea that any sort of larger BDSM community exists, I think that collarme definitely counts, just as a video game discussion board counts.  The "standards" for any community are set and maintained by it's leadership (moderators in this case).  Note that at no point did I propose that the standards for THIS community should be changed or needed to be changed.  I only pointed out that if such change was to occur, it would be driven by the moderators.

So yes, I've already decided to, as you suggest, have a thick skin -- always wise to do on the internet.  But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't personally prefer a more civil atmosphere all in all.  But these are not my boards and so it isn't my place to try to set any standards on them.  So I sift the wheat from the chaffe as best I'm able.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Our threads and their subtleties..... - 8/7/2008 12:46:05 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Civility, courtesy, community, standards.........all fairly fluid words in how different people define them in light of their own life and experience.

So, basically what you are saying is this.

You do not agree with the boundaries set by the moderators of this site and if you ran it, you would have different boundaries. BUT, you don't run it you will ignore what is chaff (to you) and suffer the indignities anyway.

One of only two choices, as I see it.

Oh yeah..........also a Collarme Drama Addict......


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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