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RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 4:13:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Do you give submissives a second chance if they have lied to you - not about their marital status or anything like that, but fibs about their desires? In other words, they say they are really into x, because they know you are into x, and you find out later they aren't interested in x at all but really are interested in y. Or, they say they have a hobby that you have, when they don't -- or, they say they have experience in something and are comfortable with it, and then you find out they don't have any experience?

The common theme - what might be considered 'white lies' but they tell them because they think it will help them have a chance with you. Do you dismiss them as soon as you find out they have misrepresented even the smallest detail?

Akasha

I can't imagine anyone doing that. By the way, have I told you about my new hockey hobby?

Tee-totally cool littlesarbonn!

It just so happens my company has secured a new private jet for my exclusive use to inspect new hockey / gourmet ice cream-related properties around the globe for possible aquisition. I would fly down for a drink and to check out your new hockey gear but there's this problem with the stereo and the FAA won't certify us.

Back on thread-track, your word is a most-valuble thing. Once you've burned your credibility it's difficult or impossible to regain. Or so I've heard.

_____________________________

TnC
Married, Novice Subbish-Type Person
and rider of the Drama Llama.

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 4:29:49 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Do you give submissives a second chance if they have lied to you - not about their marital status or anything like that, but fibs about their desires? In other words, they say they are really into x, because they know you are into x, and you find out later they aren't interested in x at all but really are interested in y. Or, they say they have a hobby that you have, when they don't -- or, they say they have experience in something and are comfortable with it, and then you find out they don't have any experience?

The common theme - what might be considered 'white lies' but they tell them because they think it will help them have a chance with you. Do you dismiss them as soon as you find out they have misrepresented even the smallest detail?

Akasha

We've tried this a couple of times, and it does not work for us. In the end, people revert to themselves after a time. If we are incompatible in terms of what we want out of the relationship, it isn't going to work. We've tried, on a couple of occasions, to work with a servant whose needs and desires did not meet our own -- we saw the inconsistencies and asked about them up front, and were assured that XYZ wasn't really very important to the person at all -- what xhe wanted was to serve us.... only to find out, after a period of passive-aggressive resistance and outright failure to abide by our agreement, that xhe really -did- have to have XYZ to be happy... we have, on occasion, tried adding just a bit of XYZ, since we didn't really enjoy it at all and had made that clear, only to discover that the person really wanted -only- XYZ, and in even greater measure than they first indicated even in the original profile... but xhe'd believed that once xhe was -in- our service, that we would -want- to give hir XYZ all the time, because xhe was so clearly unhappy without it.

No longer... if someone's desires/needs don't match at least one of us -very- well, we will not consider hir... and if we find out xhe's lied about hir desires to 'get a foot in the door', we will open the door and usher hir posterior right back out.

Calla Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 4:51:28 PM

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From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
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Hehe, I just posted on Elan's thread and then found this one. Oh well.

The brief summarization is that no lie is an acceptable lie. I value honesty in people, submissives included, no matter how harsh the truth may be. I'd rather have a sub say "Aw, I'm really not into that, sorry" in the first place, which may make me pout a bit, but likely wouldn't be a dealbreaker unless it was one of my major kinks.

But dishonesty... yeah, no, I hold grudges too easily to ever be able to trust that person again.

_____________________________

Ти саркастична, це – доля,
Ти артистична в неволі,
Ти симпатична в цій ролі,
Ти синтетична до болю

Read my series, Taking Jessica, on http://www.akashaweb.com !

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 4:58:18 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Do you give submissives a second chance if they have lied to you - not about their marital status or anything like that, but fibs about their desires? In other words, they say they are really into x, because they know you are into x, and you find out later they aren't interested in x at all but really are interested in y. Or, they say they have a hobby that you have, when they don't -- or, they say they have experience in something and are comfortable with it, and then you find out they don't have any experience?

The common theme - what might be considered 'white lies' but they tell them because they think it will help them have a chance with you. Do you dismiss them as soon as you find out they have misrepresented even the smallest detail?

Akasha

There are ways to get around some lies.
I have been on here 4 years, I have never put what my BDSM
interests are on here, nor what it is that I really seek.
I always ask the hard questions first, then give my answers.
I normally ask if they are into the exact things I am not into.
lol
You would be amazed at the males, that want to "change" their responses,
AFTER I have told them what I want and what I don't want or like.
They say things like "I really did not mean that!"
I have always figured if I put exactly what I seek and what I want, that
the majority of the men that contacted me would claim to want the same things.
I think it is much harder to lie in hopes to impress, when you don't know what
the person wants or is into.
So my answer is hell no, once they start off lying, backpedaling, changing their
answers, etc. I am the hell out of there.
It has helped me save a lot of time.

I have quite a few ways that I can normally catch and smoke out liars and players, but I can't
tell you all of my methods, cause then I would have to kill you.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 8/18/2008 5:17:12 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 5:16:40 PM

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I don't deal well with lies of any sort.

A better answer a man can give me is either "I don't know," or " I didn't like it the first time I tried it, perhaps it will be different the second time" or any veriation of such.. why lie when the truth is so much easier to keep track of. As someone said previously, if someone will lie about the simple small stuff, then what keeps them from lieing about the important things.. besides it is best if I am informed truthfully. If I am making judgement calls for a subsmissive and he has lied then my decisions are being made upon lies.. How is that for a big ole crack in the foundation of a relationship?

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 6:56:57 PM

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Everyone,

quote:

Pyrrsefanie:
Hehe, I just posted on Elan's thread and then found this one. Oh well.

Oops. I didn't mean to cause confusion. It seemed that I'd hijack Akasha's thread if I started up a significant offshoot / segway here and this is why I started my own thread.

Elan.

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/18/2008 8:49:09 PM

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Relationships are not about being "submissive" or "dominant." I think its an error to use BDSM as a prism for character assessments or expectations.

Next, I'm stunned that people don't like liars and always prefer honesty. I'm bowled over by this.

Me, if I like/love/or get off on another person --- that fundamental thing includes all that they do. I don't really expect someone else to be an honesty machine, and frankly I might even view that as a character flaw.

I like to think more about how **I** make others feel --- and how that plays a role in how I am treated. Lying is not a strict external phenomenon, aka something someone else does to innocent others. No, lying is often connected to the complex environment of people. So, rather than blame others for being liars, I put my efforts into making others feel safe.

So, to answer the OP: ABSOLUTELY, FUCKING NOT. Hell, the uncovered "lie" is often a great opportunity for connection.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/18/2008 8:53:50 PM >

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 12:49:10 AM

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From: East Central Illinois
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I think context is key here. If someone tells a lie, white, big, whatever, then reveals what they've done and are repentant, then a second chance must be considered, and possibly accepted. But catching someone in their lie is what I feel shatters the trust...

_____________________________

Hmm...

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 2:22:40 AM

MysticFireTopaz

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From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
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Yes, I have dismissed those I have caught in lies.

I now have a rule that either a person lives within two hours driving distance of DFW or is relocatable. Prior to that, I would meet subs who lived farther away who would swear up and down to me that they could commit to seeing me on a regular basis (at least twice a month). Once I took them on, however, I would find that they didn't live up to that agreement and ended up releasing them.

Another time, I interviewed a sub who told me he was strictly submissive and did not switch. I later caught him in a lie and found that he had been secretly involved with a submissive woman at the same time he was seeing me. Needless to say, he was history.

I have found that male subs sometimes lie about their height on their profile. One who claimed to be 6'1" was actually shorter than me (5'8") when we met in person.

A friend of mine and I caught a sub in a lie and now neither of us will have anything to do with him. The sub and I had been e-mailing regularly and I was considering setting up a phone interview and meeting him. He had also contacted a friend of mine. She asked him directly if he was talking to anyone else and he said no, that he had e-mailed another Domme, but that she had been "very unresponsive," which was anything but the truth.

Lady Topaz

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 3:08:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
Deception and omission are antithetical to submission, as complete honesty is key to vulnerability and trust-building. So, if someone is misrepresenting themself; they are not being submissive. Period.

Sure being a liar and being a submissive are two mutually exclusive things. So if you've found someone to be a liar, then you immediately know you haven't found a submissive. Is it in the nature of a submissive to be manipulative and deceitful?

Besides an absence of trust, lying also implies a lack of respect. If someone thinks they get can get away with lying to you, then they don't respect you or your intelligence. A liar, as Goebells noted, takes you for an idiot.

Also a third caveat, liars lack scruples and so logically would possibly have no misgivings about leading you into serious trouble of some sort. Making you a fall-guy.

_____________________________

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 1:40:10 PM

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Interesting thread. Truth being discussed by people with pseudonyms. How I love the irony.

mnw

(in reply to rookey)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 1:46:37 PM

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I may go by Lockit, but a lot of people here know my name... my full name. It isn't a lie. It is who I am and just a nick name if you will. I do not use Lockit to hide who I am, but don't need to put my name out there so that every lil wanker can find me and show up at my doorstep. My nick isn't used to deceive anyone and is only an online protection from those who aren't so nice or safe to know. A lie is a deception... a nick name is not always.

(in reply to marsneedswomen)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 2:19:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marsneedswomen

Interesting thread. Truth being discussed by people with pseudonyms. How I love the irony.

mnw

My nick isn't so much a pseudonym as stating (truthfully) what I am. Besides how can protecting one's privacy be deemed to be dishonest or somehow deceptive?

_____________________________

(in reply to marsneedswomen)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 2:27:10 PM

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When reading from others that any lie, omission, or white lie, is wrong and then following it with a pseudonym strikes me as hypocritical. People tell white lies and use omission for various reasons and some are justified. The black and white crowd sort of loses a bit of their moral high ground when they don't adhere to their own rhetoric. It's a gray world and a little bit of acknowledgement of this would be good for everyone. Walk it like you write it people.

mnw

(in reply to rookey)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 2:42:20 PM

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LOL... I think a number of us admit to how we might lie and who we might lie to. I will not lie to someone I have a personal relationship with. You seem to feel that a nick name is a lie... it isn't a lie. It is an online protection and is wise. It isn't used to deceive, but to protect. If I am lying to a guy online by using a nick name, then so be it... I am still standing my ground and stating that I will not lie in a personal relationship.

I am walking it like I am typing it.

(in reply to marsneedswomen)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 3:00:26 PM

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This is a very interesting thread. Considering fear is usually the primal driving force behind a lie, is it excusable?

Has evolution progressed to the point where fear no longer has a place in our cerebellum? Is not our trappings of civilization merely fabricated concepts to avoid chaos and anarchy, without which courtship would consist of a club and a cave?

It may take me a bit to wrap my mind around this one.

Abaddon

“The only difference between myself and a mad man is that I am not mad.” - Salvador Dali

(in reply to marsneedswomen)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 3:04:43 PM

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Do I lie? Yes, i have in the past, was there a reason, like No Daddy I havent done the laundry yet dont go in there... (his unwrapped birthday present was in the room) Yes Yes I have and Ya know what, Ill lie to my next partner in effort to hide a present for them that they arent supposed to find yet.

Have I said a chore was done before it was done ... once, but i was in the process of doing it and it was 5 minutes before done.

Do I tell Every man Ive ever met in my entire life my Entire life story the day i meet them HELL NO... Ya know what I tend to omit alot about my life until I trust them with that much information about me.

Have i ever feigned interested in a mans hobby because i wanted to impresse him, kinda, Do i know much about cars except to say that one looks fast or that ones shiny, No I dont, will I sit in garage with a man and hand him the tools he needs, and ask questions while hes doing it and gain an interest in a subject i might not like...yes. Why because being pleasing and putting forth the effort to show i might not like it, but ill learn about it for you to make you happy is more important to me then enjoying it.

Do I know something about cars, Yes I do Alot, No, But then its my job to be pleasing and if my owner likes doing xyz isnt it my job as his submissive to learn about his likes and intrestes to better please him?

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 3:26:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Abaddon2u
Has evolution progressed to the point where fear no longer has a place in our cerebellum? Is not our trappings of civilization merely fabricated concepts to avoid chaos and anarchy, without which courtship would consist of a club and a cave?

This is an interesting thought.

My brain does not process fear correctly. Anything that I "fear" is highly irrational and makes people look at me very strangely -- prime example of this is that rabbits make me completely fall apart and start screaming and clawing at the walls to get away from them.

If the argument being made is that people lie because they fear being deemed socially unacceptable or because the truth might hurt someone... well then, that would explain why I'm fairly incapable of lying, since I don't feel that fear -- anxiety perhaps, but not full blown fear. Social acceptance is a curiosity to me rather than something I strive for. Sometimes when walking down the street I feel like Jane Goodall watching the apes, observing people and how they interact with each other and how they can automatically know and understand things with something as simple as a hand gesture or a facial expression. Through this observation I've been able to mimic some of these behaviors and gestures and the like and taught myself how to pick up on somebody being not-so-serious, read body language (to a degree) and facial expressions.

Which then begs the question, as I go about my daily duties in society and I'm basically "reciting" all of the things I've learned -- does that perhaps make me a liar in a different sense, since so much of it is just rehearsal, like play-acting when in reality I have no true comprehension of the significance or meaning behind what I'm doing?

It's not being ostracized or deemed unacceptable by society that I fear, it's being unable to understand that terrifies me the most, which is why I believe I personally tend to throw out the concept of lying as a whole -- cannot compute this information, throw the whole datastream out, it's no good. And because I know there's that gap in my comprehension, it is frightening to me to misunderstand or misread what someone is saying or doing, perhaps because I rely on their example to expand my own "repertoire."

Brain explosion.

< Message edited by Pyrrsefanie -- 8/19/2008 3:28:21 PM >

_____________________________

Ти саркастична, це – доля,
Ти артистична в неволі,
Ти симпатична в цій ролі,
Ти синтетична до болю

Read my series, Taking Jessica, on http://www.akashaweb.com !

(in reply to Abaddon2u)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 3:38:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marsneedswomen

When reading from others that any lie, omission, or white lie, is wrong and then following it with a pseudonym strikes me as hypocritical. People tell white lies and use omission for various reasons and some are justified. The black and white crowd sort of loses a bit of their moral high ground when they don't adhere to their own rhetoric. It's a gray world and a little bit of acknowledgement of this would be good for everyone. Walk it like you write it people.

mnw

I dont agree with this. My nick is how i wanted to describe myself, it has absolutely nothing to do with my real name. If anyone emails and asks me, or i send an email, my name is always given. I am not lying by using my nick in this fashion.

Edits to add....the fat bloke in the photo isnt me....honest guv !

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 8/19/2008 3:40:07 PM >

(in reply to marsneedswomen)

RE: Submissives who lie to impress you or be compatible... - 8/19/2008 3:46:18 PM

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marsneedswomen

When reading from others that any lie, omission, or white lie, is wrong and then following it with a pseudonym strikes me as hypocritical. People tell white lies and use omission for various reasons and some are justified. The black and white crowd sort of loses a bit of their moral high ground when they don't adhere to their own rhetoric. It's a gray world and a little bit of acknowledgement of this would be good for everyone. Walk it like you write it people.

mnw

Do you think it would be safe to me to post under my real name? If you were my husband or best friend, would you encourage me to let everyone in the world know my name and address? Just curious.

Akasha

_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to marsneedswomen)

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