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Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 8:28:45 AM

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I'm 20 (found the lifestyle shortly after turning 18) I have had my more then fair share of "You're to young" "HA you're just a horny kid" "To immature" "You are to young to be a Dom, grow up puppy" "Kids belong in game room not in the dungeon" etc. you can use your imagination for some more.

So that got me thinking on asking on a larger scale for opinions. Not speaking on age preference in a partner, since we all have our preferences for older younger or same age group, but as far as being a Dom or a sub to you does age have anything to really do with it?

My personal feeling is no, age (so long as you are legal and wont get the other party thrown in jail) really doesn't have much baring on your ability to be a Dom or a sub. To me a person's level of maturity plays a far bigger role then age could ever hope for, I know people 18 mature enough that I would consider them an adult and 30 year olds I have to ask myself how they ever managed to get the concept of potty training. So to me personally it is all about the persons maturity much, much more so then age.

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 8:35:02 AM

Rover

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I knew a guy in high school who repeated tenth grade four times. He was not particularly proud of the fact that he had more high school experience than anyone else (nor should he have been).

Some people learn a lot in a short time. Others hang around for decades, not knowing a thing. Spend a few moments listening, you'll know who is who.

John

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 8:39:26 AM

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Younger people get less respect, that's just a fact.

The best way to handle it is to prevent ageism where you see it and be the best example that you can be.

In fact that's usually the best way to handle any irrational stereotype.

If you do a search, there are probably a dozen discussions on age and maturity issues.

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 8:43:16 AM

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quote:

So that got me thinking on asking on a larger scale for opinions. Not speaking on age preference in a partner, since we all have our preferences for older younger or same age group, but as far as being a Dom or a sub to you does age have anything to really do with it?

As you already know it depends on the individual. Many groups...well most do not even allow you to be a member unless you are 21. Different states have different ages as to when you are an adult. Why should'nt groups as well?
When I was 21 I was living in Texas...legal age to drink was 19. Why should I be able to get drunk and not be allowed in a BDSM club?
So, it just depends. For me, unless it was a major difference I would'nt care.
For some they would.
Regardless if I have 40 year's experience in the lifestyle and you have 1. We are both going to be newbies together if we hook up. I have no experience with you and you none with me.

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 8:53:03 AM

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quote:

Regardless if I have 40 year's experience in the lifestyle and you have 1. We are both going to be newbies together if we hook up. I have no experience with you and you none with me.

Very good point.

Also another question come's to mind. Does time equal experience/knowledge/ability in your opinion?

To me in some way's and most cases yes, but also in some case's I would say not really. I am a firm believer the practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I know dominant's that have been in the lifestyle a few years and value their opinions much more then I do those of some who have been in it twenty years.

So just to add to the mix do you think experience/knowledge/ability always come with time in the lifestyle?

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 8:56:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020
Also another question come's to mind. Does time equal experience/knowledge/ability in your opinion?

Time does not EQUAL those things, but time is a FACTOR in all of those things.

quote:

So just to add to the mix do you think experience/knowledge/ability always come with time in the lifestyle?

There's no other way for it to come. But the passing of time does not equal the reciprocal raising of those things.

Age matters.

How MUCH it matters depends on the context.

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 9:47:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I knew a guy in high school who repeated tenth grade four times. He was not particularly proud of the fact that he had more high school experience than anyone else (nor should he have been).

Some people learn a lot in a short time. Others hang around for decades, not knowing a thing. Spend a few moments listening, you'll know who is who.

John[/font]

[nod] I call this sort of thing "one year's experience repeated 10 times." Just being "in the scene" or "having a partner" doesn't mean "learning" or "getting better."

_____________________________

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(in reply to Rover)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 9:50:31 AM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020

My personal feeling is no, age (so long as you are legal and wont get the other party thrown in jail) really doesn't have much baring on your ability to be a Dom or a sub. To me a person's level of maturity plays a far bigger role then age could ever hope for, I know people 18 mature enough that I would consider them an adult and 30 year olds I have to ask myself how they ever managed to get the concept of potty training. So to me personally it is all about the persons maturity much, much more so then age.

Yeah, maturity--emotional maturity in a relative sense--is real important.

Something else is important though. There is art to this or anyway there can be. A lot of the focus in forums like this is on technique; a lot of it is on emotional issues. That is all just fine because these are very important.

There are cases of the very young producing significant, even sublime art. Actually I don't think it is altogether rare in the very young whereas adolescence and early adulthood present characteristic challenges to the kind of expression I'm talking about. It isn't self-expression. This is a special province of middle-youth. Instead it involves getting out of the way and letting the thing which wants to be made manifest in the art come out.

I don't think it would be too controversial of me to say that artists (of every medium and every stripe) bring more (and sometimes importantly, less) to their work as time goes by. This happens as a function of their maturation in their art and in their lives. The word mature in the last sentence works a little bit differently than it did in my first sentence.

In other words, I think there is a lot of truth in what you say and I agree with your overall message as I understand it. That said, the proposition:
"age ... really doesn't have much baring on your ability to be a Dom or a sub," is one hell of a claim.

Let's say you get into this and have years of rich and rewarding experiences seasoned of course with mistakes and very likely some degree of heartache. Now compare your ability today with the ability of you, twenty years out. I suspect that the passage of time and what occurred during it will have some pretty undeniable bearing.

But maybe we don't disagree. Maybe my concern all hinges on an ambiguity in the use of the word "ability."

Maybe we could agree that the younger you and the older you have the very same ability in one sense. That is simply that (despite what some people have said to the contrary) you do have the ability to undertake this project. Or at the risk of sounding all lofty let me say undertake this journey. You have the requisite number of arms and legs and senses and brains to get started with, walking down the trail. You have the ability.

A hundred miles further on, you will have in addition--if you are lucky and careful and don't make certain kinds of mistakes systematically--the same ability i.e. the ability to proceed. You will in addition though have very many abilities which you might now lack.

Anyhow enjoy the trip.

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 9:58:08 AM

transcontinental

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People have to start gaining experience somewhere, if they're ever to acquire any. Assuming a similar level of emotional maturity, what is the difference between a 20 year old with no experience and a 25 year old with no experience?

(of course maybe I'm just saying this because I'm young with essentially no experience)

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 9:58:45 AM

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Does age matter so much to be a dom or a sub?

The answer depends entirely on finding a partner who will see you and accept you and support you in the role you see yourself in. It really is as simple as this.

You know what? Age is important to many of us -- we have age ranges for the partners we prefer and even age range limits for whom we'll do BDSM with.

Is it shallow? Maybe.

So what? We all have preferences and desires and needs. I don't see age limits as any more shallow than only redheads, only single, or at least 6 inches long.

These are personal limits for relationships.

I do not support age limits (beyond those legally established in your region) for organizations and events. As an educator I think allowing people to explore and learn is one of the best things we can do. I can learn from almost anyone who isn't a jerk.

Does more experience equal better dom or sub skills, knowledge, or ablitites? It can. But experience is not the same as age. Someone today can have a decade of experience under their belt by age 31 in most organizations, at most events, and in most venues; you can buy most written on-to books by age 18.

Some people start exploring at age 16, some at age 36, and some not until their 60s. Some who is 62 and has only been doing BDSM for two years is in no innate way than a 30something whose been doing this for a decade.

So age is not equal to experience and interest.

Not all experience is equal. I'll second what Rover and others have said: you have to pay attention to people, do your research on them, and then you can see who is and is not "mature" and knowledgeable enough.

Sorry for rambling folks -- the age bias especially against younger people at "public" events and clubs is one of my greatest pet peeves in the Scene today.

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(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 10:06:57 AM

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From: Den Haag
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020

I'm 20 (found the lifestyle shortly after turning 18) I have had my more then fair share of "You're to young" "HA you're just a horny kid" "To immature" "You are to young to be a Dom, grow up puppy" "Kids belong in game room not in the dungeon" etc. you can use your imagination for some more.

Couple of years ago, such comments were quite often heard in the Dutch bdsm-scene. Back then that was the main reason why a group was started by young people for young people (18-30) with a mailinglist (nowadays a forum), a chatbox, and its own play-meetings. To my opinion this has created a very good and safe environment to meet and explore without such comments. This has really increased the competence and self-asuredness of many young people in the lifestyle, but also raised more awareness and understanding in the regular scene. I daresay the whole scene is now a lot more friendly to young people than five, six years ago when I entered.

I surely don't think age matters that much. Experience to some extent does, but there's a lot of people in their twenties with some experience and a lot of starters in their fifties. People looking down on you because of your age are probably insecure because of the threat of young(er) more attractive guys (you might decrease their vhances to hook up with that young subbiegirl) or jealous because they didn't start at twentie themselves.

Roel

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 11:25:09 AM

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well it looks like another of my posts was deleted........

i had.........'a' post here saying..........in MY eyes...age matters to-a-point.

i am older than my Her OR Her hubby........but then i was older than my 3 wives.......

my 1st domme however was older than i...and i had some trouble relating to her.

age? ehhh? to-a-point..sure.
my Her and hubby cannot relate to ME...........

different generations.......

go figure?

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(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 3:00:28 PM

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i have young Dom friends but i would never play with them; to me, there's something off-putting about a 30 year age difference. Nor would i submit to them as my One; i think it's obvious that would not work for me. However, i am enriched by their friendship and truely treasure them.

candystripper

(in reply to veronicaofML)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 3:03:05 PM

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hey there, as anothe ryoung person faced with the glass ceiling of "you're not old enough" I can sympathize with you.

I'm 24. I haven't found many people to disqualify me because of my age in bdsm related matters over the last 18 months because...well probably because I'm female.

I do get a lot of "wow your profile is good for someone your age" though.

I think what you need to do is keep on truckin. The type of people who are immediately disqualifying you because of your age, you don't really want to be around anyways.

It's more about perspective than age. I find that men with similar perspectives to mine are a good decade older than me. However, i don't disqualify those in my peer group or those that are younger. I might look at them more dubiously, question them harder, but if they're what I'm looking for they pass through it all. In fact, this summer, I was VERY pleasently surprised by someone 2 years younger than myself, and a Dom at that...and knowing about and practicing shibari at THAT! First time EVER in my life i've been with someone younger than myself.

So don't worry, it'll all work itself out. Sadly....you will hit the glass ceiling, but at least you can walk away with the knowledge that you didn't have to waste your time getting to know the person to see their faults...they displayed them to you right away.

(in reply to Guilty1974)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 4:13:50 PM

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I've commented on this issue before.

LittleMissSub - I have NEVER seen a female suffer agism in the BDSM scene. They are welcomed with open arms.

I suffer the most abuse from those new and over 30. Still, I guess when I'm 35, fat and balding those young 18 yr old subbies arent going to find me attractive either, so will do my best to keep those with experience and youth on thier side out of the picture.

(in reply to LittleMissSub)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 4:43:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkslife
LittleMissSub - I have NEVER seen a female suffer agism in the BDSM scene. They are welcomed with open arms.

Oh we get it...we just get it differently. Instead of the "You're too young to know what you're doing, ew you're just a horny teen guy who thinks he's hot stuff but is gonna get someone damaged" chicks get "You're too young to know what you're doing, here let me take you and 'teach you' like the precious young flower darling that you are."

(in reply to darkslife)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 5:03:44 PM

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In the broadest sense, of course age matters. I am not attracted to 80 yr old subs nor would I consider anyone under legal age. However EVERYONE has age preferences/prejudices. What is the difference between someone telling you you're too young to know what your doing and all of the profiles I see that adamantly state "no one over 30" or " between the ages of X and Y? Assuming everyone over a particular age is somehow the same is as ridiculous as assuming everyone your age is clueless. People should be judged as individuals not on some arbitrary actuarial chart based on chronology.

(in reply to Wolf1020)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 5:04:38 PM

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Amen to that, LA.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 5:51:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkslife
...I have NEVER seen a female suffer agism in the BDSM scene. They are welcomed with open arms.

As a rule of thumb, I am not interested in women under 25 or over 45. There have been exceptions to this overbroad rule. It's still a good rule though, I find it helpful the vast majority of the time.

What you seek is a factor also. If I were out for a good time just for tonight I wouldn't probably care what age a person was. As I am not sexually frivolous, it matters very much to me how mature a person is. And sure, while no rule equating age to maturity can answer that for every individual, I still think its useful to have a rule like that. But then, I have lots of little tests that I use to figure out who someone is. This is just one more threshold they must cross for me.

Flakiness and impatience is what stands out in a youthful person, and to me those are not desirable traits.

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(in reply to darkslife)

RE: Does age matter? - 11/23/2005 7:33:43 PM

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As I have gotten older, (36 so far) I have taken a sort of pride in the concept that I am experiencing "mindful ageing", that is to say, I had awareness that "this" was going to happen to me and that I had no choice the matter and seeing as Im not able to control things like the ageing process and the passing of time, I decided to take the opportunity to learn graciously and actually pay attention as I get older. One of the more interesting things I have noticed may actually be the process of evolution as it occurs - okay thats a huge claim, but how about spiritual evolution? The "young people" I meet today are a very different breed, so to speak, from the "young people" of "my day". I meet college-age people today who have discovered their passion and are living genuine, artistic and beautiful lives. Now, the question arises as to whether or not I only notice and attract these people today because of who I am spiritually and intellectually (a late bloomer, perhaps?) and they were there all along, even when I was in my college years or whether this indigo generation really are a different sort of person, mature, intelligent, focused, spiritually aware and on a higher path....one may never know - BUT (and here is my point) it nonetheless is evidence that young people ARE capable of living their lives fully and at a deep and genuine level, the existence of which perhaps many of the older generation are not even aware. This may account for the inability of said older adults to acknowledge that there is a valid place for people of your age in....well, in the world? What a concept.
I think that, maybe, it is difficult for people to step outside themselves and experience the reality that everyone is not expreriencing this life and the universe the same exact way and at the same exact pace that they are/did.
That said, there is always something to be said for experience, but I have found that relative youth is not always an indicator of inexperience and vice versa. Ive met some really really piss poor Doms over the age of 30.
Namaste.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Chaingang)

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