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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/3/2008 7:02:50 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I think it is much better now. When Clinton was President I had to go to work everyday. I'm retired now..Thanks George...It's great..

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/3/2008 7:26:49 PM   
hopelessfool


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quote:

1988 5.5 1989 5.3 1990 5.6 1991 6.8 1992 7.5 1993 6.9 1994 6.1 1995 5.6 1996 5.4 1997 4.9 1998 4.5 1999 4.2 2000 4.0 2001 4.7 2002 5.8 2003 6.0 2004 5.5 2005 5.1 2006 4.6 2007 4.6

http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

So I see the first few years of Clintions term going from the 7.5 at the start of his term thanks to bush number 1..... to 4.2 at the END of his term bringing the unemplyment rate down 3.3 percent...
I see a flucuation in Bushes term, he started out with a low unemplyment rate thanks to clintion brought it up to 6.0 and brought it down to 4.6 where He is still higher then the end of clintions term.

I hate to say your facts are a bit slanted

Clintion did a great job with brining down unemployment.

I cant say wither bush did good or bad, I think with my limited knowledge, he didnt do to hot, but I can admit Im wrong If I am, I was 11 when he was elected, maybe in 20 years Ill say O.o He did as best he could. But Gas being 4 bucks a gallon and me not being able to get a job in my area due to costs and taxes doesnt make me like him very much, and I can fully admit my dislike is personal. But Ive got 20 years to eat my words.


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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/3/2008 7:53:55 PM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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Did you factor in the mountain of debt boosh ran up?

$3,932,822,974,702.19 That`s a 13 digit number,folks.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

You need to subtract alllll that money,to get the real numbers.

ah boy...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14136797/


http://www.miseryindex.us/indexbypresident.asp

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/3/2008 8:01:37 PM >

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 4:58:13 AM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

For every one study showing an upwards trend in the economy...there will likely be 10 illustrating the contrary.

Do you have any examples of those ten studies?

LOL....frankly, i think you did the much more demanding task of finding the "one".

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 5:16:14 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I suffered the same job problems during the Clinton years that you now suffer, hopelessfool.  I also watched Bush get blamed for a rise in unemployment caused by Bill's pen signing NAFTA (Now Assholes Fuck The Americans).  I watched plants closing so that greedy corps could sell substandard products at a cheaper rate to the same people that they just put on unemployment. 
He is as much to blame for the rise in unemployment as Bush.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 5:24:00 AM   
paulas


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/11/2006
Status: offline 		Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter much, if they are polititions they are slaves to a broken system. We need to change they power structure in Washington, limit the influence from corporations and their lobbyests. To do that we need to set limits on their dollar amounts they give to candidates and political parties.

Nixion (R) opened the door for free trade with China that sucked jobs out of this country like a huge vacuum. Hillery Clinton (D) sat on the board of Wallmart when Wallmart took down their in store signs that said buy American while they set the trend of buying cheap from China. Bill Clinton (D) a few years earlier pushed through NAFTA. (North American Free Trade Agreement). The common denominator to all of this was all about profits for large corporations.

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 5:30:04 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Of course the US economy is growing, the dollar is in free fall so US goods are cheap.

However, if you look at much of the growth, it has been money making money with nothing to support it, hence the credit crunch.

Oh, and debt of course.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/4/2008 5:31:27 AM >

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 5:31:50 AM   
cuckyboy4U


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/11/2008
Status: offline 		l m f a o  I saw the title on the little scroll thing on the hompage and had to come here and laugh. lol

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 5:36:29 AM   
MistressNew


Posts: 112
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		Funny stuff, CL.  At first I thought you were a right-winger, but now I see you're obviously a liberal playing a part.  Nobody could actually think that Bush is actually a fiscal success, right?

Oh, and here's a good trivia question. Which president created more jobs: Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan combined?

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 6:10:09 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Oh, and here's a good trivia question. Which president created more jobs: Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan combined?

Trivial question, trivial answer:  none of them.

Presidents do not create jobs.  Even the saintly FDR never created a single job.


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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 6:43:59 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Oh, and here's a good trivia question. Which president created more jobs: Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan combined?

Trivial question, trivial answer:  none of them.

Presidents do not create jobs.  Even the saintly FDR never created a single job.



Then what was your point of quoting this?

" Employment. The U.S. employment rate, measured by the percentage of people of working age (16-65 years) in jobs, has remained high by international standards. The latest OECD figures show a rate of 71.7% in 2006. This was more than five percentage points above the average for the euro area."

Incidently, you have to be earning a living wage (which is working at least 35 hours at a income level higher than the US minimum wage (varies slightly from country to country)) to be counted employed in the euro area, I understand the US criteria for being employed is much lower.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/4/2008 6:46:31 AM >

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 7:05:38 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Then what was your point of quoting this?

The point should be intuitively obvious.  The U.S. economy is growing, and is doing better than other economies (the euro zone in particular) over the same time period.

The point is simple:  The U.S. economy is not mired in a deep depression, is not on the verge of total collapse and ruin, and the last eight years have not been an economic disaster.  The reality of the U.S. economy is far better and far stronger than the Democrats are wont to admit.


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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 7:10:51 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Oh, and here's a good trivia question. Which president created more jobs: Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan combined?

Trivial question, trivial answer:  none of them.

Presidents do not create jobs.  Even the saintly FDR never created a single job.

I will rebutt your argument in this way. First...

SLAVES had jobs when cotton was king and the economy of the south was BOOMING. Didn't do the slaves any good did it ?

We have over 1 million MORE famlies under the povery level (census)
Repubs create 'jobs' by BORROWING TRILLIONS...i.e. debt.
Dems created jobs while creating a SURPLUS.

GDP is a false measurement of economy as has been stipulated by economists for years by measuring goods and SERVICES...those services include every dime simply changing hands back and forth on Wall Street non-job producing money.

When Bush took over they LOWERED tax rates on paper-trading ('capital gains' and 'carrier interests')...so more paper trades...and call it part of the GDP when it 'produces' nothing and did nothing for the overall economy except make Wall Street richer.

Under Clinton, incomes went UP while the services created were technology based which is truly only where we lead the world. Reformed welfare, closed waistful military bases and REDUCED federal employment. (sounds like a small govt. fiscal conservative to me...whatever that is)

Under BUSH and repubs, incomes for more than 50% of Americans have gone DOWN. 

The vast majority of NEW jobs created by BUSH and Repubs is in govt. defense and military. YES, govt. does create jobs.

The jobs created under Clinton were private industry.

When BUSH(s) Reagan and repubs create jobs is is govt. i.e. military and HSA, TSA

When they and FDR spent govt. money (read WPA and others plus the Hoover Damn it was govt. spending and govt. policies that CREATED those jobs...NOT the marketplace.

Jobs created under BUSH and repubs...employess watched their buying power go down.

When Clinton created jobs employees buying power went up.

A previous post is absolutely correct in that BUSHES 'average' employment is not higher because because they started with Clinton's low unemployment in 2000.

I am sick and tired of the right in this country using Europe as an example for ANTHING when they refuse to consult the Europeans on why they are better off while unemployed than the bottom 1/3 of Americans WITH a job.

They have universal medicine and it now starting to payoff. EUROPEANS are now living longer. So they could come to America...be poorer and die younger.

American right wing economists refuse to include in measuring standard of living...medical care. Yes, where there is universal medical care you will have to wait...SOMETIMES.

Here you wait...and wait...and wait for what...for the money and if you don;t get rhe money...you don;t get health care until it is an emergency and somebody else pays for it. Too bad if you die before you are rich enough.

Some other factoids:
In 2000 we had a trade surplus with most of the world...now we have the largest trade deficit in history. I.E. more of our money is leaving the country then ever before in our history.

Since 2000 we have borrowed more money in any 8 years period in our history. We have gone from approx. $20 trillion dollars in TOTAL debt.

2008, we are $44 Trillion in debt.

Overall the US is borrowing $6 Billion Per DAY or more...Wall street journal.

celticlord...there are statistics and there are...damn statistics.

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 7:19:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I am sick and tired of the right in this country using Europe as an example for ANTHING when they refuse to consult the Europeans on why they are better off while unemployed than the bottom 1/3 of Americans WITH a job.

They have universal medicine and it now starting to payoff. EUROPEANS are now living longer. So they could come to America...be poorer and die younger.



It beats me why Republicans refuse to see this and refuse to accept that Americans could have the same without raising or spending anymore money than is already spent. On healthcare, America could even save money and have an improved system. Its as though Republicans want second best for their citizens rather than a world class system that can be paid for by redirecting waste or er.. excessive profits through morally corrupt practices.

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 9:53:54 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		CL, I would have to disagree about FDR not creating jobs. He did but they were all government jobs. Not much of a disagreement I admit, but that statement was not true.

HK, you have to get yourself off moderation somehow, because I would have been right there with you. I am well versed in how they can make numbers lie.

Unemployment figures are the least reliable. First of all they only count those newly unemployed seeking UI benefits and those eligible for welfare. The chronically unemployed and underemployed are ignored. Say you have a guy who was making $28 an hour doing a semi-technical factory job. There used to be alot of people like this, and with their jobs apparently secure, got a nice house and new car, which they now can't pay for on $9 an hour. The figures do not count them as unemployed, as they wait for the foreclosure notice and the repo man.

T

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 10:01:31 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Nope..he really really believes this stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNew

Funny stuff, CL.  At first I thought you were a right-winger, but now I see you're obviously a liberal playing a part.  Nobody could actually think that Bush is actually a fiscal success, right?

Oh, and here's a good trivia question. Which president created more jobs: Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, George Bush, and Ronald Reagan combined?



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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 10:14:38 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Here ya go CL. No need to thank me.


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4564

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 10:24:03 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		M'laird, your defence of "W" has become as ridiculous as the man and his record. I suppose that was inevitable, given such events as deniers of the holocaust and apologizers for Nixon, and other assorted scalawags in whom they have invested. That's the trouble with identifying with ideas as being "me" or "mine". When they, inevitably, are attacked or fall of their own weight, one who has so identified with same feels , at least, a petite mort, non?

As you are so fond of saying, m'laird, "it's the order of things".







< Message edited by cjan -- 9/4/2008 10:42:13 AM >

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 10:44:43 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

M'laird, your defence of "W" has become as ridiculous as the man and his record.



Particularly ironic in the light of the Republican convention. They're trying to pass McCain as a great reformer who will refurbish government and clean up Washington, make the economy okay again and solve the Iraq situation.

If all that's not admitting that Bush's government made a big fat mess of things  ...

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RE: Bush Has a Good Economic Record - 9/4/2008 10:50:42 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		No one was happy to see Fay hit NOLA and the surrounding area except for "W" and Cheney. It gave them a "credible" excuse to not appear and speak at their own party's convention. It was known and reported a week before Fay was a threat to NOLA that "W" would not appear because his own party regards him as something odious they would rather scrape off their collective shoe than acknowledge and praise for his "good economic record".

Saying that "Bush has a good economic record" is tantamount to you, m'laird, saying "damn, that's a good haircut" to your barber.


< Message edited by cjan -- 9/4/2008 10:55:31 AM >

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

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