skeletoncrew
Posts: 17
Joined: 7/5/2008
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i did like the idea of defining what ethics are exactly, so we have SOME idea of what we are talking about:
ethics
–plural noun 1.(used with a singular or plural verb ) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture. 2.the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics. 3.moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence. 4.(usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: CalifChick
A code of ethics defines values, standards and principles, and defines the manner in which you strive to live your life. I suppose you could have an "unethical" code of ethics, although that seems to defeat the purpose as well as being an oxymoron.
Hence the reason my brain hurts.
this might blow your mind a little bit and make it hurt some more, but for example Adolf Hilter WAS an ethical person...since "rightness", "wrongness", "badness", and "goodness" are 100% COMPLETELY subjective...sorry to blow your mind, but one CAN be an "evil" person and be COMPLETELY moral and ethical, it is all relative...and since i am talking about nazis don't get me started on the so-called "medical ethics" of the doctors that readily helped and supported the Third Reich all over Europe(and people wonder why i don't trust doctors)...
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ORIGINAL: Jeffff
Doesn't everyone rationalize, everything? Ethics are no different than any other belief.
What I would considerer ethical others would not. In the end we each must answer to ourselves. Trying to codify it for others seems pointless.
i think you have a good point, a very good point...but, that isn't gonna stop people from talking about it...
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ORIGINAL: Icarys
In this case, aren't there at least some unified beliefs? Is this all up to interpretation as everything else on this board is or can we not agree what might be ethical as well?
there may be unified beliefs, but they are still all subjective even if agreed upon by a large(or small) group of people...one person's ethical is another person's unethical, if you want to by tyrannical you can try to enforce "unified beliefs", but it would pretty much be a sham from any objective reality, it would just be a form of authoritarianism....
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ORIGINAL: Jeffff
I think only in the broadest sense can there be universal beliefs. We can all probably agree that , in this context, killing ones submissive is unethical .
what if the sub is terminally ill and wants to be killed, begs to be killed??? what if they are trying to kill you??? what if killing them will save their offspring(in like a terrorist situation)??? judging from your posts i think you know the "answer" here, they are rhetorical questions for those that do not...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeffff
I would hope everyone strives to be an ethical person, but I don't think you should count on that.
i think everyone strives to be ethical within the framework of their own subjective ethical code...i just wouldn't "count on that" being the same ethics you may have...
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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
But to adhere to such a black and white code of ethics would make me an idealist and I'm not. I'm a pragmatist, because I find that the notions of "right" or "wrong" aren't anything clear cut or objective.
they aren't objective at ALL, completely subjective...the "true" villian never thinks of themself as a villian, they believe they are doing the right, moral, and ethical thing(yes, even Hilter)...when Russia recently invaded Georgia it was seen are the moral and ethical thing to do ie the right thing to do from the Russian perspective, but from the Western perspective it was not...who is more "right" and who is more "wrong" in the situation??? the answer depends upon the subjective basis in which you answer it...
quote:
ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
When presented with such difficult decisions, all a man can do is decide what he values as "virtue" and act in accordance. Do I find that loyalty for the employees under me is more important than my duty to the company?
exactly...i know when i was a manager i tended to find my loyalty for the employees under me WAS more important than my "duty" to the company...to which my employess though was a great moral and ethical position, however the company tended not to see it that way because of their subjective perspective...it is all relative...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Icarys
I'm talking about the pretty well known no stealing and the such.
sorry, your "well known"(which is really more of a vague social agreement) is STILL completely subjective...from the shamanic perspective you cannot own anything(for if ownership does exist don't the trees have first claim to the land???) so you cannot be unethical for "stealing" something which someone already "stole"...or more appropriately "liberating" something that they had no right to "own" in the first place... when some one steals the water from a river or an egg from a hen is this theft moral and ethical??? how about when you kill and steal a tree for timber??? or enslave a species to die for food??? where do you draw the line for such things??? the short answer is where you want to draw the line as it is all subjective at best...
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ORIGINAL: Icarys
I know if i had no other way to get food..and i would exhaust all my avenue's before doing it..I would feed my kids(if i had any as well) but i would still know it was wrong.
is it REALLY wrong to steal for survival what someone else has already stolen for profit??? all depends on your individual ethics, i have no problem with it personally and i do consider myself a moral and ethic person...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Icarys
. I think we all know what is right..even the worst of us..they just tend to ignore it.
these things are subjective, there is no knowing what is right, there is defining it...i find it better to look at these things in terms of constructive/destructive, progressive/regressive, liberating/tyrannical, i find these concepts to be alot more objective and reality based than the many vague notions of "right" and "wrong"...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Icarys
I could understand doing some of those things if pushed to the extremes but again, I know they are wrong from the start. If you stole from someone..then your taking food or money out of their hands that doesn't belong to you.
from my point of view it doesn't belong to them either...no harm no foul...
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ORIGINAL: Icarys
If you kill, your taking a life that wasn't yours to take.
so you don't eat anything right because when you eat you kill(or pay somebody to kill) animals and plants that don't belong to you...animals and plants "belong" to the ecosystem of which man is a part, not above or seperated from or owner of...or when you eat an egg you kill the potential for life that does not "belong" to you...where do you draw the line??? some draw it with humans, some with animals, some with plants they don't have to kill to eat(like tomatoes, apples, etc), but it ALL is subjective to individual morals and ethics...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Icarys
Now i'm with you..If someone tried to hurt a loved one, they would be best to take their own lives before i got a hold of them. I might want to hurt them in ways that would take some time before they left this world. Still doesn't make it right. Isn't that the rational truth?
cause and effect are rationala truths, nothing moraly or ethically wrong from defending your own and metting out proportion "punishment" for those that have attacked others...that is the different between moral and ethic justice and revenge or vengeance...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kaer
A Man cannot take what is not willingly given
Let every Man choose His own treasure
i hope you don't live in America 'cause here the entire country was taken and not willingly given, the entire country was "stolen" from the indeginous people who were then slaughtered(theft and killing on a HUGE scale)...was our country founded and grown on a moral or ethical standpoint??? of COURSE it was, the morals and ethics of colonialism...
it may be helpful to remember the old axiom one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, it all just depends upon which end of the ethical "gun" you stand on...
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RE: Master's Code of Ethics - 
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