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First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 9:52:12 PM   
HotMistress22


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In the passion of it all one can loose touch with personal safety. Some pre-measures need to be in place if you are a Female whether Dominant or submissive.

Disclaimer: Everyone’s risk tolerance levels are different. Some are more stringent than others when it comes to personal safety, I have adopted the most stringent route.

I spent months on this site talking to a few (multiplied by many accts they have). They would not go away. When I was on to them they simply would create another acct profile etc. Basically ones who wanted online cybersex only, wasting my time when they knew I was only into RT. Once I implemented the protocol below..well a series of protocols, they all went away. And now my success rate has been very satisfying:)

Here is my protocol I use to not only determine that the potential date is a real person and wants to sincerely meet me in RT but also I have the information I need to do background checks to make sure he is safe and sane.

I invite him for a cyber date via web cam. I tell him that during the cyber date I will need to see a Drivers License (pic and DL number.), Vehicle registration and a utility bill in their name. With this information (utility bill) I can confirm their name and where they live. With their address and name I can do free public records searches in the county they live in to screen for criminal/civil records etc. With the drivers license info I can check their age and confirm profile pic similarities and with the vehicle registration I can find out the vehicle's make, model, year and license plate number.

Finally to verify this information I ask the potential date to hold up the above-mentioned documentation up close to the web cam until I am able to get the clearest image. The potential date may need to adjust room lighting so that I am able to see numbers etc.

Here is another protocol I found on the net years ago that I use and agree with.

Mind you it was written from a Male Doms perspective. I feel there is no difference in my mind in a Femdom relationship..Generally the Females safety is Paramount. Lets face it even though I am a lifestyle Female dominant, Realistically I am 125 lbs wet with an attitude:)
http://www.albanypowerexchange.com/Ds/1st_meeting.htm

Use your common sense, listen to your Inner Voice and THINK! This cannot be stressed enough... especially for newcomers to the lifestyle/lovestyle.

I am often amazed at the lack of common sense that both women and men use when setting up a meeting with a prospective partner. In the vanilla world, there is probably every bit as much danger as in this lifestyle in a first time meeting; however, in a world where consent is the difference between an assault and battery or a great "scene/session", I would expect to know a whole lot about someone before meeting them in RT. While there are no "rules" as such about how to meet/what to do at the first meeting, etc., I'd like to offer some guidelines I use and what information I require before meeting someone for the first time.

First off, I want to know where they live and what kind of living arrangements they have (i.e., are they married? have a roommate? a significant other? other family?). I want the address and phone number and expect to call them at this number sometime before the meeting. Obviously, if they are married, calling them at home probably won't happen, but then a work number is essential (something that will verify the ability of getting in touch after the meeting).

Second, I want to know where they work, their job title, the address and phone of their employer (and this must be verifiable somehow, either by doing an "employment check" like a personnel officer or bank officer would do).

Third, I want to know the make, model, color, year and license plate number of the car they are going to drive, and to whom it is registered since this person may not be the registrant of the vehicle.

Fourth, and perhaps most important, I want some proof of a blood test for STD and HIV available for me to see when I meet the person (though this could wait until the second or even third meeting, but I must see this before playing with them). I would not accept a photocopy as they are too easily altered.

The most important thing I want to get across to submissives (of either sex) is this: you are primarily responsible for your own safety in any given situation. This means that if you are uncomfortable... either say so and/or leave the meeting. Don't place yourself into situations that could be beyond your control until you really know the prospective partner and have a sense of trust about them. And, for heaven's sake, be responsible for your own *escape* from a situation; do not get into anyone's car that you do not know extremely well! Drive your own car (or if you don't drive, be sure to have the number of a local cab company, plus change for a public phone as well as the money to pay the cabfare; and locate the public phone before you sit down for this first meeting).

Do not give out a lot of personal information online or in email or on the phone. Don't, for instance, give them the address of where you work or the exact address of where you live. Also, it is not a good idea to give someone your work number until you have known them for a lengthy period of time. Always meet at a public place, preferably during daylight hours. Never have a stranger come to your house as the place for the first meeting.

A very dear friend of mine has a pretty good *measure* of one's level of trust of a prospective partner: If you would lend your ATM card (with PIN number) to this person (or your credit cards), you probably know them well enough to have a pretty high degree of trust in them. Surely, if you wouldn't trust someone with your money, you'd not trust them with your life.

Another thing I hear quite often is that a submissive feels they are ready to meet their prospective dominant and yet they are too embarrassed to talk about the "activities" that they may be doing in a scene. If you cannot talk about a particular "activity" trust me to tell you that you are NOT ready to DO that activity!

THINK before you act; go slowly... and then slow down from there. There are NO guarantees that even after that bond of trust and respect is felt that things cannot go wrong when you play, but negotiating even the tiniest detail will help insure that there is open communication and that you will not be (hopefully) pushed beyond your limits.

There is a hyperlink to Jay Wiseman's "famous" Negotiation Form on my website; print it out and USE IT.


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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 10:19:04 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HotMistress22

I invite him for a cyber date via web cam. I tell him that during the cyber date I will need to see a Drivers License (pic and DL number.), Vehicle registration and a utility bill in their name. With this information (utility bill) I can confirm their name and where they live. With their address and name I can do free public records searches in the county they live in to screen for criminal/civil records etc. With the drivers license info I can check their age and confirm profile pic similarities and with the vehicle registration I can find out the vehicle's make, model, year and license plate number.

Finally to verify this information I ask the potential date to hold up the above-mentioned documentation up close to the web cam until I am able to get the clearest image. The potential date may need to adjust room lighting so that I am able to see numbers etc.




I believe you were asked by someone else in another thread if you provided the same information in return.  You never answered that question, so I'm asking it now.  Do you provide the potential sub with the same information on yourself?  If not, why not?  Why should you expect him to comply when he has no way of verifying who you are?  I characterised in that thread people who would do such a thing as being desperate idiots.  You replied that they might be desperate but that they weren't idiots.  Why would they not be idiots to give out information that would facilitate the theft of their identity, particularly to someone they didn't know from a hole in the ground?

Edited to add: safety works both ways.  Men are just as entitled to it as women.

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 9/22/2008 10:20:11 PM >

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 10:47:55 PM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
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There are several people I trust to play with, often quite extreme play (by most people's standards).. I'm STILL Not giving them access to my ATM card....

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 10:48:10 PM   
kinkbound


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Here in the Midwest, there is a well-known and respected verification service commonly used by providers and hobbyists called RS2K (abbreviation for RoomService2000).

I personally would rather pay RS2K the one-time fee and use their service, than give out all of the personal information you ask for. Are there not any respected verification services in your area?

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 10:51:18 PM   
VivaciousSub


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From: Tampa, FL
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While I agree that safety is paramount, these tactics say "I'm an ID thief!" not, "I'm trying to be safe.".

The rules I stick to are:

1) Meet in a very public place.
2) Let someone know where I'm going, or preferably take someone with me. My best friend doesn't participate in the lifestyle but knows full well I do and has come with me as a secondary pair of eyes and a secondary opinion.
3) Take my own car, thanks.
4) Never go home with them from said public place. If they like you, they can damn well wait for a second or third meeting. Also in public. That also gives me (and my bodyguard!) time to suss out whether or not I think they're full of it.


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To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 10:53:38 PM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
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I wish someone would steal my ID ... and fix my credit rating....

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 11:12:16 PM   
caro44


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Me too, Greedy, Me too.  Huggles
 
 
 
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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 11:24:36 PM   
Celene


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I don't know that I'd play by the rules you expect others to adhere to, but then I'm not going to ask anyone to divulge these things because I sure as hell wouldn't. If it eliminated the so-called losers more power to ya, but I think it also eliminates anyone who hasn't been hit er, disciplined on the head too hard.
Anyone stupid enough to hand this kind of credit and personal information over to someone online I'd eliminate for doing so.
Yes, I believe in protecting myself, but a submissive is usually the one at a much greater disadvantage (at least how I do things) and I expect trust. And I think you get that by extending it.
That being said, always, Always, ALWAYS! listen to your "gut".

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 11:28:30 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HotMistress22
First off, I want to know where they live and what kind of living arrangements they have (i.e., are they married? have a roommate? a significant other? other family?). I want the address and phone number and expect to call them at this number sometime before the meeting. Obviously, if they are married, calling them at home probably won't happen, but then a work number is essential (something that will verify the ability of getting in touch after the meeting).

Second, I want to know where they work, their job title, the address and phone of their employer (and this must be verifiable somehow, either by doing an "employment check" like a personnel officer or bank officer would do).

Third, I want to know the make, model, color, year and license plate number of the car they are going to drive, and to whom it is registered since this person may not be the registrant of the vehicle.

 
<snip>

Do not give out a lot of personal information online or in email or on the phone. Don't, for instance, give them the address of where you work or the exact address of where you live. Also, it is not a good idea to give someone your work number until you have known them for a lengthy period of time.


I am having trouble reconciling the text in blue and the text in green. It seems you are telling submissives to not do what you ask of potential submissives. So submissives should follow your advice unless they plan to contact you?

I find the following confusing about your protocol:

1. If after a month or two of communication there is trust established so that the submissive should feel comfortable to give the information specified, as you say in the other thread, why so much distrust towards the submissive? Is there trust or not? If trust indeed has been established, do you also provide the same information?

2. If you can never be too safe, why should the submissive not be equally safe and not provide the personal information? Why should the submissive trust the dominant with sensitive personal information before meeting the dominant face to face? I think there is less of a risk to meet a stranger in a public place with a third party present nearby than to provide all this personal information with respect to likelihood of being harmed. Also, I have seen some bizarre and odd behavior upon rejection or break ups. My advice to any sub would be to not provide this information unless it is mutually exchanged.

3. I think there should be a balance between being cautious and yet not offending the other person, or setting a tone that is incongruent with the flavor one would like to see in the courtship. Explicit distrust can breed the same.

4.  Also, I think it is odd to ask someone to bring proof of not having any STDs or the like on the first date. I should clarify that I believe the question about chemistry is still open until the two have met for the first time. After the first meeting, one or both of the parties might conclude the chemistry is not there. I think asking for all the personal information you describe before the first meeting is premature.

quote:

Always meet at a public place, preferably during daylight hours. Never have a stranger come to your house as the place for the first meeting.


I agree. If one wishes for further safety, one can have a third party present nearby.

quote:

A very dear friend of mine has a pretty good *measure* of one's level of trust of a prospective partner: If you would lend your ATM card (with PIN number) to this person (or your credit cards), you probably know them well enough to have a pretty high degree of trust in them. Surely, if you wouldn't trust someone with your money, you'd not trust them with your life.


Does your friend then ask for an ATM card and credit cards from a prospective partner? If so, does your friend provide the same in turn? Your discussion seems to be geared towards the first meeting and I am assuming the same is true for this protocol. I think asking someone for credit or ATM cards at that time is inappropriate and I would consider it to be a red flag. If someone gave me that pitch, I would wonder if this argument was a cover to get the cards.

I also don't see the argument of equivalence to hold. I might be reasonably confident that a given person is not going to take my life. However, this confidence does not transfer directly to the matter about ATM cards. The two are different matters with different threshholds to commit, and different consequences.

quote:

There is a hyperlink to Jay Wiseman's "famous" Negotiation Form on my website; print it out and USE IT.


Yes, it is a good, detailed form. Here it is: http://this.is/parsberg/dominatrix/negotiationlongform/domform.html

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 11:35:37 PM   
GreedyTop


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one point I'd like to make is that it is not that difficult to do a reverse lookup on phone numbers... so if one were to pass along their home/work numbers (assuming theyre correct), it takes just a few minutes online to discover an address.

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/22/2008 11:58:51 PM   
HotMistress22


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: HotMistress22

I invite him for a cyber date via web cam. I tell him that during the cyber date I will need to see a Drivers License (pic and DL number.), Vehicle registration and a utility bill in their name. With this information (utility bill) I can confirm their name and where they live. With their address and name I can do free public records searches in the county they live in to screen for criminal/civil records etc. With the drivers license info I can check their age and confirm profile pic similarities and with the vehicle registration I can find out the vehicle's make, model, year and license plate number.

Finally to verify this information I ask the potential date to hold up the above-mentioned documentation up close to the web cam until I am able to get the clearest image. The potential date may need to adjust room lighting so that I am able to see numbers etc.




I believe you were asked by someone else in another thread if you provided the same information in return.  You never answered that question, so I'm asking it now.  Do you provide the potential sub with the same information on yourself?  If not, why not?  Why should you expect him to comply when he has no way of verifying who you are?  I characterised in that thread people who would do such a thing as being desperate idiots.  You replied that they might be desperate but that they weren't idiots.  Why would they not be idiots to give out information that would facilitate the theft of their identity, particularly to someone they didn't know from a hole in the ground?

Edited to add: safety works both ways.  Men are just as entitled to it as women.


Of course I provide them with 'some' of same information. But not until I have confirmed preliminary checks and have a public meeting etc. Honestly most never ask until I offer it. But even then I am very reserved with the information I allow them to have.

I am not desperately seeking a sub and I'm definitely not an idiot. I will not take any unnecessary risks. I do not 'expect anyone to comply' to my terms, its strictly volunteered. If they do not provide me with the information needed then its simple! We don't meet, they can move on to find a less restrictive Dom. Its a free country.

And when it comes to my safety as well as my families, a potential sub is entitled to the information I allow, nothing more. Again he doesn't need to comply, he can say forget this and move on like some have already said they would do. I will respect their decision. In the same way that you may not agree with my protocol.

On a lighter side once much time has gone by in a relationship and trust is 'earned.' I let them into my private life but that takes time.

Oh almost forgot, I do not 'expect' my questions to be answered and can only hope that others would be as forgiving as I am.

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:01:38 AM   
E2Sweet


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No matter who I've searched for over the years, I've always made a scan of my drivers license available to anyone who I was talking to at that time. I actually have it available now.

I've never once been asked to prove who I was (except for last week - and she turned out to be fake - go figure). But, when necessary, I will produce a drivers license, photos, I will say hi on webcam, and even offer a link to a site where you can do background checks. That is basically all I'm willing to offer in terms of private data before a first meeting, and that has always been more than enough.

Producing utility bills, ATM information, and all that is fine if that's what one wants to do (and he or she is OK with the inherent risks), but when it comes down to it, if you're intuition is not at some point telling you its probably OK to proceed with a public meeting, then I say just don't meet the person and spare them the jumping through hoops treatment. I just don't see what all the intrusive investigating is going to save you from if you are meeting the person in a busy public place anyway...

I say, in general, always be cautious, but at the same time concentrate a little less on methods, and procedures, and a little bit more on getting to know the person you're thinking of meeting...




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E2Sweet
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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:05:23 AM   
E2Sweet


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From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

...I believe you were asked by someone else in another thread if you provided the same information in return.  You never answered that question, so I'm asking it now.  Do you provide the potential sub with the same information on yourself?  If not, why not?  Why should you expect him to comply when he has no way of verifying who you are?...


Now you've got me wondering the same thing...


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E2Sweet
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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:08:15 AM   
HotMistress22


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

one point I'd like to make is that it is not that difficult to do a reverse lookup on phone numbers... so if one were to pass along their home/work numbers (assuming theyre correct), it takes just a few minutes online to discover an address.


As this may be a good idea many simply purchase a virgin pre paid phone where one can pay cash for an untraceable phone and number. Its amazing the lengths that some will go through.  Btw I would recommend all Femdoms buy one and give that number out only. You can pick them up fairly easy for about $40 USD

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:19:41 AM   
HotMistress22


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

...I believe you were asked by someone else in another thread if you provided the same information in return.  You never answered that question, so I'm asking it now.  Do you provide the potential sub with the same information on yourself?  If not, why not?  Why should you expect him to comply when he has no way of verifying who you are?...


Now you've got me wondering the same thing...



Thank you for your gracious response. I answered this question in the above thread.

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:20:46 AM   
leakylee


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there are a few a 'play with privately' did long before heading to the Shed. most of the time was the normal conversation, phone, meet public. yadda yadda. now since i spend most weekends somewhere doing something, and those nights are at the Shed it makes more sense to meet there. but i have still said comeon. of course, now there arent to many that i know that arent involved in the lifestyle to some degree. so i still trust my own judgement. when all else fails, i ask.

lee

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:28:10 AM   
HotMistress22


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2008
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quote:

A very dear friend of mine has a pretty good *measure* of one's level of trust of a prospective partner: If you would lend your ATM card (with PIN number) to this person (or your credit cards), you probably know them well enough to have a pretty high degree of trust in them. Surely, if you wouldn't trust someone with your money, you'd not trust them with your life.


I'm hoping the author intended that statement to be a hyperthetical..something to think about.
I would never ask someone for his ATM information. 


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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:29:40 AM   
MzMinx


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Joined: 12/26/2005
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Not all countries have untraceable phone numbers ... even pre payed mobiles (those you pay cash up front ) in Australia  require enough ID to do a credit check on you, as a security precaution... this information   once varified is meant to  only be avaliable to law enforcment agencies when they  have a reason,  and make a  request within the legal constraints

But the information is electronicaly stored so is avaliable in all sorts of not so legal ways, so its not perfectly safe ...... its just harder to get than a published number ... although in Australia  we do not have easily accesable reverse number look ups either

I personaly do not ask for more than I am willing to give ... I tend to meet in public places, do not play on first meetings, dont ask for phone numbers or such as I do not give mine out, untill after I have met someone and sometimes met them several times

Often a boy will give me lots of his personal  details just naturaly as  we chat and interact,  I think most woman have more 'stranger danger' than males do ...


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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 12:38:48 AM   
HotMistress22


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMinx

Not all countries have untraceable phone numbers ... even pre payed mobiles (those you pay cash up front ) in Australia  require enough ID to do a credit check on you, as a security precaution... this information   once varified is meant to  only be avaliable to law enforcment agencies when they  have a reason,  and make a  request within the legal constraints

But the information is electronicaly stored so is avaliable in all sorts of not so legal ways, so its not perfectly safe ...... its just harder to get than a published number ... although in Australia  we do not have easily accesable reverse number look ups either

I personaly do not ask for more than I am willing to give ... I tend to meet in public places, do not play on first meetings, dont ask for phone numbers or such as I do not give mine out, untill after I have met someone and sometimes met them several times

Often a boy will give me lots of his personal  details just naturaly as  we chat and interact,  I think most woman have more 'stranger danger' than males do ...




The phone allows to protect ones last name and address until I feel more comfortable with the person. Also stops reversed lookups for harassing phone calls. Couple of times I needed to exchange my cell I use for business to stop the harassing calls. What a pain. 

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RE: First Meeting Safety Protocols for Females - 9/23/2008 1:08:09 AM   
E2Sweet


Posts: 649
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMinx

....Often a boy will give me lots of his personal  details just naturaly as  we chat and interact...


Exactly. Often times, if you are engaging and open, and come off as being genuine and sincere, the other person will open up for no other reason than because he or she then feels comfortable to reciprocate.


quote:

I think most woman have more 'stranger danger' than males do ...


I think that's probably true. However, I'll say that generally, asking me for an abundance of personal information and not offering to share the same type of information raises flags from where I'm sitting. This would be what I'd consider to be odd behavior from a woman, as I'm much more used to them being basically as open with me as I am with them.

Edited for grammar 'weirdness'...

< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 9/23/2008 1:23:36 AM >


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