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RE: When Enough is Enough - 6/26/2009 7:13:06 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Is there a particular reason that you feel the need to come to this thread and undermine its purpose?  I am sure that there are many women who get over on the criminal justice system every day by claiming they were abused.  They are sickening creatures and in the minority.  They make it harder for the rest of us to be believed and get the help we need.  It is what has kept many a person locked in a violent and dangerous situation until finally the truth came out in a very unfortunate and preventable death.

I am sure there are things Candisa is not getting into.  Many of us have parts of our experiences far too painful to even talk about more or less anonymously on an internet message board.  I am neither going to defend or condemn her based on what she has been willing to post.  I will say that talking about it is good and is part of the healing process.  That is why your posting is out of line on this thread.  This is a place to remember the bad and hopefully help others know they are  not alone and that there is hope.  You are more than welcome to start another thread to discuss false allegations of abuse.

Please also keep in mind that some of these stories haven't come from women.  Men have been subject to this as well and have an even harder time getting help than the women do.  Insulting women in general is a rather childish game.  And let me clarify something that had to be explained to me.  I NEVER have to keep my anger to myself.  I have the right to feel it and express it appropriately.  It is just an emotion after all.  I DO NOT have the right to be violent and out of control.  My rights end at the other person's nose.  I stuffed anger for so long (not even anger at the one who "abused" me, but at myself for not knowing how to help him, as if I really could).  It was self destructive.  A lot of the people posting here are  not attempting to be high and  mighty.  They are dealing with some of the darker emotions their experience left behind in a way that, until your post, was very safe and nurturing.

I will not comment about the hitting she did, but I can assure you that abusers know how to push buttons.  If they can get you to have any fault at all, they can then exploit it.  It is a very hard lesson that has to be learned to not allow the button pushing to work.  These are often very sensitive areas and even ptsd triggers from previous trauma.  It is vile and ugly how they are manipulated against a victim.  I don't know if this is the case here or not, but it is a possibility that either you ignored when you decided to attack her or were not aware of. 

This is my thread and, although this is a public forum and you may say whatever, I will be advising those reading this thread to place your posts on the hide feature so that we do not have listen to that which is not at all helpful or in the spirit of this thread.  It is how you handle yourself in response to me that will show the rest of us whether to bother to listen to you anymore.  You can look over my post history and see that I do not post confrontational or vicious things very often.  Since I have done so in this case, it would be wise to do some soul searching and see why a typically benevolent creature needed to come down so hard.

lovingpet

<<edited for spelling

< Message edited by lovingpet -- 6/26/2009 7:37:44 AM >

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: When Enough is Enough - 6/26/2009 7:23:39 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

I can appreciate that!. And let me rephrase something, posting anything on the internet is almost the least courageous as anybody can be
Not even going to start on the grammar...just wondered if you were familiar with irony?

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: When Enough is Enough - 6/30/2009 12:27:27 AM   
Alphascendant


Posts: 285
Status: offline 		   I would have done anything in the world to please that woman, maybe that was my downfall, as it possibly undermined the dominant-submissive dynamic that existed between us. But, I am not a professional therapist and pardon me if my reactions were over the line. I am not a violent or abusive person. Her allegations upset me because they do not reflect the actual order of events, and as was stated, we do not have to keep our anger to ourselves and I mistakenly used the wrong avenue to express mine. I have been painted as a mean, violent, abusive person, and that could not be further from the truth. I kept things locked up inside for years and years, and though some of my actions could have been interpreted as mental abuse, they were basically cries for help, cries for and to her. I would not have exposed that side of me if not for feeling the trust that now seems so transparent and misconceived. I have been to therapy several times and have admitted my errors, but it has been a one way street. It does not feel the same admitting our mistakes or exposing our weaknesses to a stranger, or even our best friends and family, as it is to confess or expose them the person that enables those emotions to manifest.  I have not ever tried to paint a picture in anyone's eyes of my being something that I am not.

    There appears to be many great minds in here and I have appreciated the intellectual challenge many have posed in different threads. It is my apparent misfortune to still harbor a great deal of affection for this person which makes it impossible to come here without thinking of her. Impossible. Sure, that statement will garner the usual "get over it's" and "move on's" but the candle still burns. Hey, that might be a new pickup line! "Do you know what causes global warming?" "The candle that has always burned for you!" It has often been said that we can accomplish anything if we set our minds to it. The only thing we haven't tried to do in order to salvage this relationship is seek counseling together and it honestly grieves me to turn my back while I still feel hope. During the past year, I have dated more women in their twenties than I ever did during any year of my twenties or thirties, and I am only a year from being fifty. And to be honest, I have not ever been so content with anyone as when with her, not ever. My attraction to her is not on a physical level, but I dream of the days after all that material, physical beauty has faded, and to look at her when she is old and gray and still feel the spark.  Sometimes the only way to fight fire is with fire and I'll be the first to admit that some of my methods of trying to solve this puzzle have been less than rational. So yes, I have tried to move on, but something keeps tugging at my heart and I am unable to shake free. I do not want to shake free.

   But to paint me as a violent, abusive person is just plain wrong and that is why I questioned her allegations. I was raised with the belief that if you have a problem with somebody, you take it to them, not spread half truths and accusations behind their back, or in any manner in which they are unable to defend themselves. Many of my actions may be unjustifiable to the average, normal, sane mind, but I am only human, and the emotions I feel about her are unlike any I have ever felt before, thus my inability to channel them properly. I locked down the trigger to those emotions twenty-seven years ago and I guess I am just afraid that without her I'll just end up locking them down again for another twenty-seven. So now i have exposed myself again and surely there are the vultures that will descend to pick at my open wounds.  I have been often been accused of being too sensitive for my own well being, but have not ever been accused of being afraid of criticism.

   It may cause me many complications and much distress for an undeterminable amount of the foreseeable future, but being the creative, strong willed, positive thinking person that I am, I will find a way to survive my conception of love until it actually works, even if that means feeling the satisfaction of having lived a full life, giving in to old age, and the feeling of my spirit seperating from my body, free at last from worldly lusts and desires, knowing I made it home without once giving in and settling. At one time I truly believed that I could not ever care for a person more than her, I did not arrive to that conclusion by my own free will. She melted me the first time I ever heard her voice. I felt safe with her and I unfortunately was not able to establish and maintain the same manner of security for her because of my being new to the D/s dynamics of proper punishment. It's difficult to carry on a civilized conversation with somebody that only is able to respond with screaming, belligerence and profanity.  

   As previously mentioned, the first time I heard her voice, I melted, I could've turned away after the first red flag, or the second, or after the many, but I didn't. It was my fault for believing that any red flag or warning sign could be worked out using the proper avenues. It was if every time I tried to ignore one of her red flags, I firmly planted one of my own.  The only reason I would not ever take her back is if I had committed myself to another, and given my track record of not ever, yes, honestly, of not ever having been in a relationship based on a future of commitment except for once which lasted three days, and only because at turning thirty it felt neccessary, the chances of that happening anytime soon are slim.  Love is not a need, but most often a choice. We often do it without thought or consideration to the consequences, like a reflex, until something tells us not to. We do not love because we have to, but because we want to, and have been conditioned by others and ourselves to do so in our own personal way. So concerning the question, "When is enough enough?" It has often been said, and I believe, if you truly love somebody, it is not ever enough.

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/4/2009 9:50:22 AM   
Bstardsbitch


Posts: 154
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline 		"if you truly love somebody, it is not ever enough".

What a load of bollox !!
xx

< Message edited by Bstardsbitch -- 7/4/2009 9:51:37 AM >

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/4/2009 8:58:53 PM   
Alphascendant


Posts: 285
Status: offline 		As beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, so is love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtjbSFG1_VQ

< Message edited by Alphascendant -- 7/4/2009 9:49:59 PM >

(in reply to Bstardsbitch)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/11/2009 1:45:25 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know what to make heads or tails of in this situation, but I will say that it is true there are two sides to every story. The problem is, if either party feels abused, neglected, or hurt somehow, the relationship is functioning in an unhealthy manner. These beliefs can in turn become the very same thing to the person who is supposed to be doing all the hurting. Accusations and button pushing becomes common on both sides. I don't know the truth of your circumstances Alphascendant. I do know that all these people here cannot be held accountable for a hurt you endured. It is time to reclaim your life from bitterness, anger, and hurt and try to move on. Learn the lessons you can so your new relationships can be positive ones. I wish you all the best.

lovingpet

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/12/2009 2:08:54 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		FR:  Sometimes difficult situations that seem unending, for whatever reason - choice, circumstance, fear, codependency, etc., can trap people in virtual cement.  There are times when just having supportive people around you, while you gain the strength, courage, good emotional health, faith, etc., to make a decision of some sort, is the best medicine.  We all get to our limit at different times, and encouraging the ones we care about that they are not alone, whatever choice they make, can be the help that is needed to set them free from a cycle of helplessness.

*hugs to all*

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to lovingpet)
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RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/14/2009 8:01:14 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Amen!

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/15/2009 12:14:54 PM   
DearJessicaD


Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline 		i had one abusive relationship. he was abusive mentally (laughing at me when I cried), sexually, physically. He was outrageously insecure and jealous and while I'd always been very social, it became easier to not spend time with others lest he spend the night or weekend interrogating me. So I became isolated, which of course made me depressed. I stopped working out, because that involved other people, and gained weight, which made him angry at me, which caused me to eat less, which made me lethargic, which added to the depression. It was all a huge, downward cycle.

We lived together, and I couldn't see how to get out, financially. It was also really hard to motivate. I was in college on an academic scholarship and barely dragging myself to classes. In the space of one week, two professors pulled me aside, three friends pulled me aside, and I ran into my ex boyfriend from high school.

They all said the same things. Something about me was not right. They all offered to help. My professors said I was in danger of losing my scholarship. My exboyfriend asked for my address, and told me not to go to school the following Friday, but instead to leave at the usual time and just go to a coffee shop.

He and two of his friends showed up, packed up all my stuff, and moved me into an apartment with one of the guy's sister. Of course the boyfriend went ballistic and showed up at school, but because he'd never taken any interest in my life when it didn't pertain to him, he didn't know my schedule or where my classes were and the registrar wouldn't give him any info on me. He'd had me so isolated that he didn't know any of my friends or how to contact them.

My ex boyfriend paid my rent to that girl for the first two months. She happened to be going to school for nutrition and was happy to cook and share her food. The ex boyfriend and I never got back together, and he wouldn't let me pay him the rent money back. We are still friends.

When I told my current boyfriend about the abusive boyfriend I could look back and see what seemed like thousands of red flags and I feel stupid.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/20/2009 6:21:04 PM   
Alphascendant


Posts: 285
Status: offline 		Thank you lovingpet for showing me a little bit of understanding, it's been awhile since feeling how anybody has done that. Having a very high tolerance towards both physical pain and emotional abuse combined with a high degree of loyalty could probably qualify me to be an excellent sub that would make a well deserving domme proud to own me, but I cannot be owned and do not respond well towards instructions on how to behave. If I may be indulged with one last contribution to this thread, what should have been enough is enough was when she insisted on having to talk to me on what was a most, most important evening, then refusing to get out of her vehicle sitting in her truck for over two hours, parking in four different spots to watch my front door, while drinking a dozen 24 oz. beers, a bottle of vodka, and having at least one stranger off the street join her party, which at one point was her head was laying on his lap and as she sat up when I approached the vehicle, she had to wipe something off her face.


Once my event was over, she refused to talk or get out of the vehicle, only sitting in my parking lot practically passed out while blasting some loud contemporary heavy metal, completely ignoring any suggestion I made. That was only the beginning, as the night progressed, she became completely out of control. As my attempts to control the situation failed and the law finally showed up, she calmed down and played the innocent victim, as the blood dripped off my injured face.


Why have I been unable to participate in a healthy relationship? Because women always try to change me, to mother me, to polish me up to be just what they want, then every one I have met has freaked out when their efforts seem futile. I have rarely ever heard a complaint about the way I live my life except by those who want to live and sleep with me. Just what is a healthy relationship? One that does not ever quarrel? Too many times I have seen a woman put on this air of integrity, demanding honor and respect, but when things don't go their way they break down like a thin piece of sunbaked, crumbling foam, pointing out the faults of others when refusing to take the necessary steps to confront their own unfortunate issues. I thought I could survive all that drama, but finally felt that enough was enough when taking a peek at her myspace and reading the last person's comment and having to throw up.


I still believe that if you love somebody enough, enough is not ever enough. I thought I loved her, but in giving up has me realizing that I didn't love her. There is actually not a thing about her that attracts me other than the thought that she accepted and at times seemed enamored by the way I live my life, but seeing how she only tries to hurt me and sensing a side of her that she continuously and strongly denied even existed, I have concluded that I could not have loved her at all because she was not ever what she pretended to be and it is indeed unhealthy for me to fantasize what might have been when it will not ever be and there most certainly is someone out there that will prove to be an inspiration instead of an impediment to my happiness. I was at a big motorcycle event last weekend, and while waiting in line at the porta-john, ended up talking shop with the bass player of the headlining band before being invited to their party where we took turns playing my acoustic guitar, singing songs until the sun rose. Although the woman that inspired me to some of my best material may not exist, the music she inspired me to more than any other does exist. So will I stop singing about her? Not in a million years....



(in reply to DearJessicaD)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/20/2009 6:37:17 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		This is what is really amazing. It is so clear to others what is happening to us, but we are not even truly aware until we are out of it and look back some time later. Even when we make the decision to let things finally go, there is such a narrow focus and the bigger picture of what has truly happened is not visible at all. The damage and consequences slowly reveal themselves and we must take each one and work it through. This is how we heal.

I am glad that others did what you couldn't do for yourself and that you have now been able to reclaim your life. Hopefully, you have learned and grown. Now it is on to better things.

lovingpet

(in reply to DearJessicaD)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/20/2009 6:46:47 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have admitted that some situations are not nearly as black and white as we would like them to be. You have been through a terrible thing yourself and I openly recognized that fact. I certainly hope my words in my previous post to you did not come across as condemning or as telling what to do. Sometimes there is only so much we CAN do.

I have taken the good with me from what I have been through. I very intentionally leave behind the bad. I move on. I learn and I grow. I choose not to become bitter and jaded. That is my path. You will have to find your own. I do hope that someday you can heal.

lovingpet

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/20/2009 8:57:40 PM   
Alphascendant


Posts: 285
Status: offline 		Reclaim my life??? There are two ways to look at that, physical life as opposed to spiritual life. Of course there will be those that say there is no spiritual life after death of the physical body. If that was to be true, my physical life is not mine to reclaim as I inevitably have no control over it. I may percieve to affect my life in ways, but the end result is unavoidable. I cannot avoid my hair turning gray, I cannot avoid death. Can I control growing old and spending my life alone? No, I cannot be something I am not. If I cannot control all of these things then I can not rightfully say my life is mine. Sure, I might be able to play music all night every night as the pretty girls dance and sing to my songs, but I'd rather sing to just one alone in my little cabin on the mountainside.


Here is another take on when is enough is enough. I am six weeks away from being forty-nine years old. Last week I trimmed three 120 foot pine trees, and they beat me up badly, making me realize how out of shape I had become from inactivity, and the desire to resume doing that on a regular basis because I am getting old but am not going to go away quietly while just rolling over and instantly becoming an old man. Will there come a day when I say enough is enough, I can not climb that tree any more? I did not have to climb those trees, I did it to make somebody happy. Something inside of me wants to climb, to set myself apart. It's hard work and very dangerous. One branch broke and stuck into my leg like a knife, yet, nobody wants to know that, they just want the tree trimmed. In the past year I have dated more women in their twenties than in any other year of my life, and I haven't been chasing them. Yes, I have been heartbroken, but at almost fifty, do I say no when there is no guarantee the woman I love will ever return and there is a pretty young gal that wants to partake in pleasure?? Until a woman gives me a better option, I will play and deal with the guilt as required. As a man reaches a certain age, his sex drive does not diminish, he just realizes that all the energy he put into trying to please a woman is not getting him where he wants to be, so he loses that ambition in hopes of accomplishing other things, most notably, not being a burden on anybody as he gets old and feeble, to live his life on his own terms. I have children, but their mothers did not want me to have any part of their lives, not wanting their children to have any part of my attitude towards life.


When trimming the trees, some of my equipment malfunctioned, causing me to curse the equipment. Then I realized, why do I curse this equipment? It is saving my life as I dangle above certain death? The equipment may be causing me a great deal of uncomfort, but it still keeps me alive and well, regardless of the temporary discomfort. We curse and get angry bvecuae we are conditioned to do so. It's easier to say "Fucking rope" instead of realizing our own shortsightedness as to why we are in the situation to begin with. I put on the rope, the rope is not doing anything that I have not allowed it to do. It is so easy to blame something or someone else for our own failure. How many people curse traffic jams? Hey, you drove that way!!


She made me feel inspiration to a degree that I haven't ever felt, at least that is what I thought. The truth is that the inspiration was always inside of me and it was her need for inspiration that opened the door for me to express myself in my own unique manner. Anger, it is what it is. We all are confronted with it every day. You get angry with me? Big deal, no need to apologize, because it is easy to be frustrated with something so difficult to understand. Some people say keep your anger to yourself, nobody wants to hear it. Others say let it out, it's unhealthy to hold it in. Who the fuck are we supposed to believe, the people making 150 dollars an hour on our anger? Come on, you can let it out on me for free!! Sure, it might hurt my feelings for a few minutes, but after writing a good song about it and watching the pretty girls dance and sing, I'll get over it. You can come over to my house, drink all my beer, insult me for hours, bust my shit up, knock over my pot of stew, and then shit on my porch when you leave, and I'll still call afterwards to see if you are okay. But don't be surprised if I call you a cunthead.


Enough is enough?? Huh?? That is a very good topic lovingpet, and yours is probbaly the ultimate title, lovingpet. Truth is stranger than fiction, life imitates art, blah, blah, blah... there is always a metaphor or lesson to be learned if our eyes are open enough to see it. How many times did Orville and Wilbur not fly?? Red flags?? My last girlfriend unendlessly complained about my truck, it needed to be fixed up shiny and nice. Red Flag!! I like my truck just the way it is and listening to somebody complain about it could be unhealthy for my eardrums. Yes, we all have varying degrees of tolerance. This has been such an inspirational thread, making me realize that I should look for red flags that had gone ignored for so long, paving the way for my arrival to such a seemingly abyssmal situation! How about a new thred, when did you think enough was enough, only to be persuaded to give it one more try and everything turned out to be a million times better than could previously have been imagined?

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/20/2009 9:07:27 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Life's a gamble, no doubt about it. I am no quitter. In fact, the person I mention in this thread gave up on me if one is to look at it that way. I have unending love and patience with others, to the point it is sometimes quite unhealthy for me. I never said I didn't still care deeply, but that the cycle must be broken somehow. There have been a few (and a very slim few) situations in life that the bad cycle broke and things became quite worthwhile. They were not, however, abuse situations. I choose not to continue unhealthy patterns and accept that the only person I can control is myself. I make decsions that are positive for me and do what I can to provide a good outcome to the other party, but in the end it comes down to doing what is best and healthy for me. If holding on to your past is what you view as healthy for you, then by all means feel free. It wouldn't work for me.

lovingpet

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/21/2009 4:33:47 AM   
Alphascendant


Posts: 285
Status: offline 		Life is full of examples of bad cycles being broken and turning out to be worthwhile, so I hope those very slim few situations of which you speak are of your own personal experiences and not referring to history in general, slavery, women's rights just to name a few, or even the how many thousands who have quit smoking. What constitutes an abusive situation? Physical abuse? Mental or emotional abuse? To abuse is to use something wrongly. Some women like to be punched in the face. Some enjoy humiliation. Some like their hair pulled, some want to be spanked. All forms of abuse, some of which are endeared by many members of this site. Withholding sex as punishment? Abuse. Am I abusing my cock if I am not shoving it into somebody every time it is hard, isn't that what it's for? I want to spend the rest of my life with a certain person, yet, looking at that person now makes me sick to my stomach. If she called me tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue as to whom I was talking to, or what her purpose could be. So, I'm almost fifty, have not ever married, or had a child call me daddy. it's beginning to look like that is one dream that might just pass by. She used to insult me because I do not masturbate, that's abuse. She says all men do it? Then I don't want to shake anybody's hand ever again, or eat in a restaurant. She constantly insulted me on just about everything, yet I still somehow felt that she loved me? This has been a great thread because now I can look back and see how fucking stupid I was. I was faced with a seemingly impossible situation, and because of a lack of communication, I chose to take extreme measures to try and break that cycle. I built an elaborate swingset for her that has yet to be used. I'll lock it up in a box and that thing won't see the light of day for another twenty years, along with the rest of my bondage equipment. Hold on to the past? The past is our learning experience, if we don't hold on to it we have learned nothing at all. If there is something inside me, bothering me, it isn't going away just by ignoring it, so I will focus on it until it gets fixed. Maybe it isn't her face that makes me sick, but seeing how she carries and portays herself online, which doesn't appear all that different from the way everybody else is.... so before I continue getting too judgemental on the actions of others, I'd better get back to work on my favorite project...... myself.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/21/2009 5:23:28 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I was speaking of personal experiences and in the very narrow context of interpersonal relationships. It is relationships and not world history that this thread is discussing after all.

All of those things you mentioned CAN be abuse. They are not necessarily such. I think most here are well aware of the fine line sometimes between abuse and wiitwd. The fact is, however, that there is a line. Breeching someone's boundaries for your relationship with them is unacceptable. If someone besides my partner did what he does with me, I would be calling the police. There are lines that even he should avoid. Those have been communicated clearly and there would be much discussion beforehand if either of us wanted that to change.

I do not agree that holding on to your past is necessary to learn and grow from it. I am stronger for some of the things that have happened in my past. I will not forget those things, both good and bad, but to continue to carry them around today doesn't work. If I determine some great experience is so worth continuing to hold up, then I am too busy to do the next great thing. If I am crushed under the weight of some horrible experience, I have abdicated to allowing life to dump more misery on me. I will take what I need and leave the rest, so that I can live my life.

You are convincing no one of your health except yourself. Since that is the only opinion that counts as far as you are concerned, then have at it on your own terms. I will not argue with you. I never really have. I wish you all the best!

lovingpet

(in reply to Alphascendant)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/21/2009 8:06:55 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Rates of false accusations are under 5%. Mostly stuff is underreported. People are ashamed that this happened to them and they are too fragile to deal with the criminal justice system.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/28/2009 6:22:52 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

So when is enough enough?


Usually at a different point in time from the one where people get out.

In abusive relationships, that tends to be "sometime way before they leave, if they ever do."

In relationships that are failing, it tends to be "sometime long after they have left."

It never ceases to amaze me how much more effort is put into WTF'ed-up relationships than gets put into the ones that are merely faltering for a step or two as the plane finally hits the runway. Arranged marriages have a better track record than some modern ones that are supposedly built on solid grounds. Rather than assuming this indicates a virtue of that system, I am inclined to think it indicates a failure of commitment. Paradoxically, people will try harder when stuff really is messed up, as compared to when it's simply not ideal and the door is open without nearly as much risk and/or hassle.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/28/2009 7:50:25 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, I think that tends to be a huge part of the problem when it really is time to get out. Many of the people who stay in out of control, abusive situations tend to be very devoted people. They really don't want or feel right about giving up on a relationship. If it is a marriage, they may even believe they CAN"T give up on it. Drawing the line between being flippant and being a martyr is hard one to draw sometimes. Some will always think you should have stayed longer and some will never understand why you didn't ditch long ago. In the end, it will be a very personal decision and one with some kind of basis, whether others agree with it or not.

I am in the camp of being very committed to my relationships. I don't give up on them easily. My track record is more along the lines of I don't give up at all. I ran away from my home during my abusive first marriage, but I had every intent of returning if I possibly could. It took his death to break the bond. I actually cringe at how loosely "abuse" gets tossed around on the boards and how often the advice is given to end a relationship (especially long term, committed ones). It takes a lot for me to even consider advising someone in that direction. Things have to be blatant and I will usually only say what my own response would be. Perhaps what they are describing is working for them and they are happy in it. Far be it for me to say they can't enjoy it. In general I would agree with you that this is a commitment phobic era (at least in the Western world). I don't necessarily see merit of arranged marriages over modern ones. Most times, the penalty or lack of option of leaving an abusive situation is the only thing that keeps the marriage intact.

Ideal is not my goal, but healthy is. Some people really are bad for each other. Some people are not really good for anyone. I hope to have learned to make better choices, accept the humanity of both myself and my partners, and to live in the present rather than mired in the past. That is the outcome I hope for any time I go through something difficult.

lovingpet

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: When Enough is Enough - 7/30/2009 1:49:25 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I wasn't endorsing arranged marriages. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. Hell, I don't even endorse regular marriages, in the western tradition, anyhow. It is an obsolete custom, at best. The prearranged form is certainly not an improvement over that. Neither is it particularly in line with the remainder of the values espoused by the west. Or mine, for that matter, though that's more a matter of seeing very little benefit to it, and a lot of potential for problems.

As for the abuse of the word abuse (a rather illustrative pun), I agree. The same thing goes for a number of other terms, like rape. While I do think it is appropriate to accept a jargon use of some of these terms in our community, I have a very hard time with the casual use of such words in a watered-down version of their usual meaning. Having some experience with women who have been on the receiving end of such situations, and a few on the dealing end, it seems silly and a tad offensive when the same terms are applied to things that aren't comparable.

I agree that it takes effort and commitment to make any relationship work. For the most part, I see a lot of people that hook up over a phenethylamine high, then move on once tolerance to the (internal) drug builds up. The ones who stay, more often than not, are in relationships where they should be moving on. I can only hope the abundance of the latter is because of the relatively longer duration of such relationships, rather than a high number of people involved in them. In any case, the ideal situation of people working to make a good thing last seems pretty rare.

Anyway, IIRC, I've written a lot about it before, so I'll avoid repeating myself for umpteen pages.

Edit: Good post, btw.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 7/30/2009 1:50:02 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 100
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