RE: Where are the submissive submissives?

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (Full Version)

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sub4usenow77 -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:30:03 AM)
<---Hello Sir(s), this boy is a true submissive.

beargonewild -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:34:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild And therein lies the problem. For too many people who identify as submissive, the term "doormat" carries too many negative connotations. Absolutely bearone I completly agree. I have never understood why on a personal level. If you took the actual item - a doormat - it serves a purpose. Without it, shit get's put all over the place. It's an important item. the.dark. Let me ask this .dark: For some people who do have a negative association with the term "doormat," it may be a matter of they have to learn through positive experiences in order to turn the negative association into a positive association. As I'm examining my own definition and each time I find I associate it with non consensual abuse, being taken advantage of, etc.

sirsholly -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: therein lies the negitive aspect for me. Something/one who gets shit on. I will submit to things that I do not like (negative to me) for a few reasons, among them - a challenge to me, and/or because in submitting to it I please the dominant, especially if he knows it is something I do not enjoy. now to me that is far from anything negative.

RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:35:21 AM)
I have tried to avoid most of the other responses and stuck to the OP as I read it. I don't know Luscious one, as I read it, the OP is talking about the assumption that some of the most generic basic actions are seen as only doormat actions. F~R Respect, politeness, obeying. Now I am not big on respect and politeness being a submissive trait. In all honesty, some of the reaction on here to the OPs post pretty much confirmed his observations. That people are rude and enjoying being rude and if they aren't rude or taking the piss then that means and proves they are not a door mat. Submission doesn't have to equates to being a doormat - nor does politeness. Submissive types - particularly female s-types (yeah generalisation alert) are thee worst at insisting that insert whiney voice here - 'just because I am submissive I am not submissive to you' - omg that gets so old. Get over it already. Stable, healthy, self aware dominants/masters/mistress' already KNOW that. Those that don't already - you should know by now that they AREN'T going to listen to your insistance anyway so let them pass by and don't get so wrapped up in trying to assert yourself and play their games. On the issue of 'You have to be submissive to be a submissive.' I would disagree. You can be a dominant and submit - you can be a master and submit. Ones action does not lead to ones orientation. Try not to mix up the two. the.dark.

NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:38:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly\ therein lies the negitive aspect for me. Something/one who gets shit on. I would be prone to say that fear feeds this mentality. Fear that the doormat slave has a greater chance at being thrust into a position where they are shit on. That usually hits most people's buttons on 2 fronts: 1) They cannot understand at all that, just maybe, the slave enjoys it. Consequently... 2) ...they are afraid of conceptualizing a dynamic where they may have made a mistake in choice which also involved the surrender of their safety net. The fact that this mentality also tends to look at the Masters who would like this dynamic as "there must be something wrong with him" and "it's just a compensation for insecurity" is, for those very reasons, likely to create envisioned situations where the Master is presumed to be a bad guy before the conversation even starts.

NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:39:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark In all honesty, some of the reaction on here to the OPs post pretty much confirmed his observations. That people are rude and enjoying being rude and if they aren't rude or taking the piss then that means and proves they are not a door mat. Submission doesn't have to equates to being a doormat - nor does politeness. Submissive types - particularly female s-types (yeah generalisation alert) are thee worst at insisting that insert whiney voice here - 'just because I am submissive I am not submissive to you' - omg that gets so old. Get over it already. Stable, healthy, self aware dominants/masters/mistress' already KNOW that. Those that don't already - you should know by now that they AREN'T going to listen to your insistance anyway so let them pass by and don't get so wrapped up in trying to assert yourself and play their games. 100 points.

RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:41:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly therein lies the negitive aspect for me. Something/one who gets shit on. I get that holly, but I didn't say shit on, but that removes shit. It's just the way we both interpret the cleaning process. If I am keeping things running smoothly so that Darcy doesn't have to deal with every piece of shit that comes through the door, that gives him the time to concentrate on the issues he wants to deal with and needs to deal with. And for some people, shit is a wonderful thing and they thrive on it. Doesn;t make being a doormat pointless, passive and always walked on. A good doormat is cleaned and cared for by responsible owners - I know the one at my front and side doors pretty much make Darcy and I proud to be the welcome into our home. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:50:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Let me ask this .dark: For some people who do have a negative association with the term "doormat," it may be a matter of they have to learn through positive experiences in order to turn the negative association into a positive association. As I'm examining my own definition and each time I find I associate it with non consensual abuse, being taken advantage of, etc. Again bearone, I cannot disagree with you. I absolutely believe that positive reinforcment and association experiences and techniques are the way to go in accepting any form of person, kink or orientation. I have had both good and bad experiences of being 'a doormat'. But I do not put that down to being a doormat, but the behaviour of the people involved including myself. Just because someone treats a doormat badly, does not mean another person will. You can't spend all your life retreating from an action, because of a behaviour - otherwise you end up sitffled with no forward movement. You evaluate yourself, the person(s) you are with and then the actions become about you as a unit. the.dark.

Missokyst -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:53:00 AM)
Ok.. let us assume that you were asking an honest question about why people put negatives in their "submissive" profiles. 1... because they are weeding out the wankers who really believe submissives are submissive to all. 2... because in the beginning of any relationship, things are a wall until they fall. 3... because they really do not intend to submit 4... because they want to write what they want. Later you state that these same submissives, once you contact them and begin a dialogue continue to state those same ideas they openly state in their profiles. So.. do you think it might be that after a dialogue with YOU (note the caps for emphasis), that these submissives have decided there is no freakin compatibility between you. And, that, since MOST people do not wish to insult people directly by calling them a pompous ass and will instead try to get them to lose interest by a time tested way, getting you to lose interest in them. I am not that nice. I would have called you on being a pompous... (edited so that I do not get tagged with 11). Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything quote: ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Well my profile says I am not a doormat and dont wish to be a slave. So whats wrong with that? Perhaps if that is not what you want you should seek a sub that doesnt express herself that way on her profile. really its quite simple. Can you read? Why even bother responding if you're going to say things like this that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. As I said, WE AREN'T DISCUSSING CONTACTING SUBMISSIVES! WE'RE DISCUSSING SO CALLED SUBMISSIVE'S PROFILES! Did you get it now? Well..... wipes brow...... do you really wonder why nobody will bow down and kiss your feet. I don't submit to angry men.... meh, but that's just me. Who said I was angry? I'm simply making the text bigger so that people can read it better. I figured that maybe she was having problems seeing the letters. I'm trying to believe that she's not just an idiot. ~Aslanemperor

sirsholly -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 8:58:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC quote: ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor Can you read? Why even bother responding if you're going to say things like this that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. As I said, WE AREN'T DISCUSSING CONTACTING SUBMISSIVES! WE'RE DISCUSSING SO CALLED SUBMISSIVE'S PROFILES! Did you get it now? Classy...I would think someone with an IQ that...um...'high'...and your 'dominate' nature you could control your baser emotions. LL- who ‘gets it’; she has a REALLY submissive submissive… rolls eyes if that is how the OP is going to address a submissive on the boards i hate to think about r/t And btw...OP..anyone that feels the need to state his/her IQ is acting, imho, in very poor taste.[8\|]

marieToo -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:00:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Submissive types - particularly female s-types (yeah generalisation alert) are thee worst at insisting that insert whiney voice here - 'just because I am submissive I am not submissive to you' - omg that gets so old. Get over it already. No more old or whiney than submissive types who continuously defend/explain their "doormat status". As you said, any dom worth their salt will understand it. Yet we continue to see this over and over again.

sirsholly -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:04:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly therein lies the negitive aspect for me. Something/one who gets shit on. I get that holly, but I didn't say shit on, but that removes shit. It's just the way we both interpret the cleaning process. If I am keeping things running smoothly so that Darcy doesn't have to deal with every piece of shit that comes through the door, that gives him the time to concentrate on the issues he wants to deal with and needs to deal with. i hear what you are saying. To me what you are describing is a well tuned partnership in which you read the needs of the other and read them well. Thats awesome. Perhaps my view of a "doormat" is one under the feet of another (ie walked on) who does not have the nerve to bellow "get the hell off of me!"

NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:05:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo No more old or whiney than submissive types who continuously defend/explain their "doormat status". As you said, any dom worth their salt will understand it. How can any Dom "worth their salt" understand that which has not been explained? The explanation of an individual slave's thoughts on hir 'doormat status' is not a tautology. The example provided by the.dark., however, is.

NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:06:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Perhaps my view of a "doormat" is one under the feet of another (ie walked on) who does not have the nerve to bellow "get the hell off of me!" Or does not wish to...

sirsholly -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:07:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Perhaps my view of a "doormat" is one under the feet of another (ie walked on) who does not have the nerve to bellow "get the hell off of me!" Or does not wish to... in that case "doormat" would not be a negative

VivaciousSub -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:12:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Let me ask this .dark: For some people who do have a negative association with the term "doormat," it may be a matter of they have to learn through positive experiences in order to turn the negative association into a positive association. As I'm examining my own definition and each time I find I associate it with non consensual abuse, being taken advantage of, etc. Again bearone, I cannot disagree with you. I absolutely believe that positive reinforcment and association experiences and techniques are the way to go in accepting any form of person, kink or orientation. I have had both good and bad experiences of being 'a doormat'. But I do not put that down to being a doormat, but the behaviour of the people involved including myself. Just because someone treats a doormat badly, does not mean another person will. You can't spend all your life retreating from an action, because of a behaviour - otherwise you end up sitffled with no forward movement. You evaluate yourself, the person(s) you are with and then the actions become about you as a unit. the.dark. Note: this font took over my regularly scheduled font I firmly believe in 'to each their own'. I'm speaking from my personal experiences, I cannot speak for someone else. I'm with Bear. I haven't ever had a good experience in a situation where the phrase "doormat" got involved. Yes, some people do treat a doormat badly while other people cherish it, but it does contain strong negative connotations for me, namely being taken advantage of, walked on, cleaning the shit off someone's shoes mostly because in times where I have been 'a doormat' I experienced no positive outcome and lots of negative consequences. That said, I don't understand how "not wishing to be or be perceived as a doormat" limits one's forward momentum in life. For me, my forward momentum takes me away from situations where I would be put in that position. I don't like being taken advantage of, or walked on, or cleaning shit off someone's shoes and being in that type of situation would hamstring me. I'm not saying that's true of everyone. Would someone be willing to clarify that for me, in case I'm missing something? Thanks!

giveeverything -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:16:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VivaciousSub Yes, some people do treat a doormat badly while other people cherish it, but it does contain strong negative connotations for me, namely being taken advantage of, walked on, cleaning the shit off someone's shoes mostly because in times where I have been 'a doormat' I experienced no positive outcome and lots of negative consequences. That said, I don't understand how "not wishing to be or be perceived as a doormat" limits one's forward momentum in life. For me, my forward momentum takes me away from situations where I would be put in that position. I don't like being taken advantage of, or walked on, or cleaning shit off someone's shoes and being in that type of situation would hamstring me. I'm not saying that's true of everyone. Would someone be willing to clarify that for me, in case I'm missing something? Thanks! This is a good question - maybe the right question. Personally, I've never seen anyone cherish a doormat.

marieToo -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:16:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo No more old or whiney than submissive types who continuously defend/explain their "doormat status". As you said, any dom worth their salt will understand it. How can any Dom "worth their salt" understand that which has not been explained? The explanation of an individual slave's thoughts on hir 'doormat status' is not a tautology. The example provided by the.dark., however, is. Let me quote thedark, because she said it better than I did. quote: 'just because I am submissive I am not submissive to you' - omg that gets so old. Get over it already. Stable, healthy, self aware dominants/masters/mistress' already KNOW that. Those that don't already - you should know by now that they AREN'T going to listen to your insistance anyway so let them pass by and don't get so wrapped up in trying to assert yourself and play their games. What I'm saying is that whether your stating "I'm submissive but I'm not submissive to you" Or "Just because I'm a doormat doesn't mean blah blah blah" is basically the same thing. And yes, any stable self aware dom is going to understand that being submissive or being a "doormat" is different unto each person. And anyone not open minded enough to realize that or be willing to discuss that, isn't going to listen to your explanation anyway.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:22:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark I have tried to avoid most of the other responses and stuck to the OP as I read it. I don't know Luscious one, as I read it, the OP is talking about the assumption that some of the most generic basic actions are seen as only doormat actions. F~R Respect, politeness, obeying. Now I am not big on respect and politeness being a submissive trait. In all honesty, some of the reaction on here to the OPs post pretty much confirmed his observations. That people are rude and enjoying being rude and if they aren't rude or taking the piss then that means and proves they are not a door mat. Submission doesn't have to equates to being a doormat - nor does politeness. Submissive types - particularly female s-types (yeah generalisation alert) are thee worst at insisting that insert whiney voice here - 'just because I am submissive I am not submissive to you' - omg that gets so old. Get over it already. Stable, healthy, self aware dominants/masters/mistress' already KNOW that. Those that don't already - you should know by now that they AREN'T going to listen to your insistance anyway so let them pass by and don't get so wrapped up in trying to assert yourself and play their games. On the issue of 'You have to be submissive to be a submissive.' I would disagree. You can be a dominant and submit - you can be a master and submit. Ones action does not lead to ones orientation. Try not to mix up the two. the.dark. well sexy dark one, I think that possibly and I say this because of his rudeness to me without any provocation. (I dont like being referred to an an idiot). That perhaps respect is something he is expecting instantanously. The most wonderful Doms give their submissives much respect that they recieve back tenfold. I think its possible that he might be extending himself in negative ways to submissives that he communicates with. Just a thought. he certainly didnt give me the respect I would deserve for a thoughtful answer in response to his OP. he blamed us for our interpretation of his words.

RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 9:23:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo No more old or whiney than submissive types who continuously defend/explain their "doormat status". As you said, any dom worth their salt will understand it. Yet we continue to see this over and over again. Marie, I would have given you more credit. An assumption on my part and an incorrect one obviously. I'm not defending. I am explaining a personal example based on experience. The claim I cited is based on flawed logic and is placed on assumption. It might be old news, but it isn't whiney - unless I was stamping my foot and demanding I am a doormat, but not YOURS.[;)] the.dark.

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