RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (Full Version)

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marieToo -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:03:02 AM)

Thanks. No hard feelings.  : )



NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:04:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

i think you are picking nits


With a post nearly entirely made up of quoted posts? Seems fitting, I suppose...the problem in this thread continues to be presumptive thinking.

In any event, the.dark. has now "explained" (perhaps at the risk of being whiney? [:D]) his intentions behind his original comments, which should mend this misunderstanding.



RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:06:19 AM)

Thanks.  I reread what I wrote and it did come across as sucky even with the wink at the end.  It was my error I wasn't clearer about the example.
 
the.dark.



marieToo -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:07:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

i think you are picking nits


With a post nearly entirely made up of quoted posts? Seems fitting, I suppose...the problem in this thread continues to be presumptive thinking.

In any event, the.dark. has now "explained" (perhaps at the risk of being whiney? [:D]) his intentions behind his original comments, which should mend this misunderstanding.



I'm fairly certain thedark is the female half.  [8|]



sirsholly -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:08:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero


In any event, the.dark. has now "explained" (perhaps at the risk of being whiney? [:D]) his intentions


psstt.......her[:D]



marieToo -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:10:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Thanks.  I reread what I wrote and it did come across as sucky even with the wink at the end.  It was my error I wasn't clearer about the example.
 
the.dark.

 
Perhaps I'm just as guilty of misinterpretation then.
 
At any rate, we all get cookies now, except for NZ.



NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:10:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I'm fairly certain thedark is the female half.  [8|]

Error on my part. I had actually presumed that to be the case but was unsure (which is why many of my previous posts are worded to avoid pronouns. I slipped, in that instance.).

Apologies to her.



zakkan -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:11:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

i think you are picking nits


With a post nearly entirely made up of quoted posts? Seems fitting, I suppose...the problem in this thread continues to be presumptive thinking.

In any event, the.dark. has now "explained" (perhaps at the risk of being whiney? [:D]) his intentions behind his original comments, which should mend this misunderstanding.



Ok a slight thread hijack here, but its a chance to clear something I have been wondering about. [sm=threadhijack.gif]

Whenever I see Darcyandthedark, I always wonder which is Darcy and which is the.dark. I thought Darcy was the male, but I couldn't be sure, and there was no way of asking this without sounding stupid [8D]



RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:11:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
With a post nearly entirely made up of quoted posts? Seems fitting, I suppose...the problem in this thread continues to be presumptive thinking.


From what I have read Nihilus, you tend to be be quite logical instead of emotional in responses.  Mostly(damn I am being generalistic) people respond the other way around.  Might explain things?

quote:

In any event, the.dark. has now "explained" (perhaps at the risk of being whiney? [:D]) his intentions behind his original comments, which should mend this misunderstanding.


Ummmm.... unless I just grew a penis, I am definately a 'her'.[:)](Just to clear up any misunderstandings - Darcy is male)
 
the.dark.



NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:11:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
 
Perhaps I'm just as guilty of misinterpretation then.
 
At any rate, we all get cookies now, except for NZ.

[sm=jaw.gif]




RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:13:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Error on my part. I had actually presumed that to be the case but was unsure (which is why many of my previous posts are worded to avoid pronouns. I slipped, in that instance.).

Apologies to her.



Accepted - although no worries - I guess double profiles can be confusing.[:)]
 
the.dark.



NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:15:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

From what I have read Nihilus, you tend to be be quite logical instead of emotional in responses.  Mostly(damn I am being generalistic) people respond the other way around.  Might explain things?

Yeah. You're saying it's all my fault!!! *cry*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Ummmm.... unless I just grew a penis, I am definately a 'her'.[:)](Just to clear up any misunderstandings - Darcy is male)

Sorry. [&o]



RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:18:31 AM)

Offers my share of the cookies to help with the tears.
Why do I find dominants who cry so hot?  Either I have a tear fetish, or it just makes me drop to my knees automatically.[sm=bowdown.gif]
 
the.dark.



NihilusZero -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 10:23:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Why do I find dominants who cry so hot?

Perhaps a display that being in the dominant position of a relationship does not mean there is not an equal vulnerability shared?

Of course, that's a totally different topic. Thank you for sharing. [:D]



housemouse61 -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 11:35:25 AM)

"So I've been asking myself this, and it's plagueing me.  Why is this site full of "submissives" who put stuff in their profile like, "I'm submissive, but I'm not a doormat!"?  I hear this, and then I talk to them only to find that the most basic of submissive acts is considered being a doormat.  They won't obey a Dom, because this is being a doormat.  They won't speak respectfully to their Dom because this is being a doormat!
What the hell people!?  You have to be submissive to be a submissive.  I'm starting to think these girls only say they're submissive because they're to lazy to get on top and ride their Dom like a good little slut.
What do you other Doms and subs think?
~Aslanemperor "

i've read, re-read and read the OP's original post again and again and it *still* reads like a disgruntled individual bemoaning profiles that he sees as inappropriate because the writers' definitions of "doormat" and "submissive" don't jibe with his.  And because of this difference in perception; they're not really submissive at all.

In reference to the comment about "the most basic of submissive acts" (and i think someone else brought this up in another response):  What one deems as basic another may deem above and beyond the spectrum of their submissive nature *at the moment*.  People and their ideals are always subject to change.  Change in ideology is most commonly made through long-term, personal experience.  Not through a few brief, online communications

"They won't obey a Dom, because this is being a doormat."  i wouldn't obey "a Dom", myself.  Not because i see it as being a doormat, but because i don't think "a Dom" that i've only communicated with online has any right to expect obedience without real time experience with me and a fair amount of negotiation of expectations on both sides of the whip.

"They won't speak respectfully to their Dom because this is being a doormat!"  i submit that if this is truly the case; he/she won't be "their Dom" for very long.  Quite frankly, i have difficulty with this example.  It's always been my experience that *most* submissives inherently give all Doms a measure of respect in the form of common courtesy.  And usually only cut off that most basic form of respect when it is met with disrespect and rudeness on the part of the Dom in question.

"You have to be submissive to be a submissive."  Perhaps, in the context of the rest of the original post, it would have been more accurate for the OP to have said "You have to be *my idea* of submissive....".  But, then i would also submit that the sentence should end with "...to be a submissive to *me*."

"I'm starting to think these girls only say they're submissive because they're too lazy to get on top and ride their Dom like a good little slut."  And in that statement lies the *axe* that killed any validity your post may have had when you began.  It smacks of an angry, frustrated individual who hasn't had sex in a while and is taking it out on the masses, as it were.  Frankly, i just thought it was uncalled for and added no substance to any point the OP may have been trying to make.

All-in-all i think this entire thread has been a roller-coaster ride of knee-jerk reactions started by the OP and perpetuated by the respondents (myself included as evidenced in my original response).  That's why i sat myself down after more sleep and focused my attention and thoughts only on the original post and broke it down into bite-sized pieces i could more easily digest.  Maybe it's given a few a little pause for more thought.  Maybe not.  i just know i feel better now.

Peace favor and blessed be.

nikki
Property of Cruel Desires



RealSub58 -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 11:57:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor

So I've been asking myself this, and it's plagueing me.  Why is this site full of "submissives" who put stuff in their profile like, "I'm submissive, but I'm not a doormat!"?  I hear this, and then I talk to them only to find that the most basic of submissive acts is considered being a doormat.  They won't obey a Dom, because this is being a doormat.  They won't speak respectfully to their Dom because this is being a doormat!
What the hell people!?  You have to be submissive to be a submissive.  I'm starting to think these girls only say they're submissive because they're to lazy to get on top and ride their Dom like a good little slut.
What do you other Doms and subs think?
~Aslanemperor



door·mat
 (dôr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image]m[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gif[/image]t[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif[/image], d[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/omacr.gif[/image]r[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image]-)
n.
1. A mat placed before a doorway for wiping the shoes.2. Slang One who submits meekly to domination or mistreatment by others. Well, I am a doormat cause I dont like/do confrontation. But there is no way I submit meekly, altho when someone wants to mistreat me, I might back away from confrontation. I ride....  sometimes if I beg like property does, or if I am "a good girl."    [:)]



Honsoku -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 12:52:50 PM)

~FR~

I have had a conversation with one person that fits the original poster's description. At just about every opportunity she would reiterate the "I'm not a doormat" shtick. Keep in mind that this was just conversation, she had never been asked to do or think anything, and she had written me first. The irony was that she complained that I didn't give her enough credit (she was very very green and it showed). After a while of this, I told her (verbatim) that I had had enough of it, that it was insulting to repeatedly be told this as it suggested I was idiot, and that if she wanted credit, she should give me the same credit that she wanted for herself. Shockingly, we went our separate ways after that.

"You have to be submissive to be submissive" A few have railed against this, but it is the case. If you aren't ever being submissive, can you really be submissive? It is a truism that highlights the fallacy of taking "everyone has their own definition of x" to the extreme. If you argue that there is no requirement to being submissive, then the word has no meaning and you might as well call yourself a rutabaga. For a classification to have meaning, it must have boundaries. There has to be at least one unique universally shared feature, collection of features, or absence thereof.

Yes, flipping though the stream of bad female profiles can get aggravating, but I'm sure just about every woman here can regale you with tales about the piles of crap in their inbox as well as bad male profiles. There will always be all sorts of people. It is best to let the ones that you don't like get to you as little as possible. If you start really feeling the need to rant about it, it is probably time to step away from the site for a bit.

Personally, the more I see the words or phrases like "doormat", "true", "prove", "not a slave", "know the difference", etc in a profile the more likely I am just going to pass the profile by. To me, it is a sign of either being too new, too defensive, or just generally having a stick up one's arse. It is an example of the lion's maxim: The lion that roars the loudest is probably the least able.



RCdc -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 12:55:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
"You have to be submissive to be submissive" A few have railed against this, but it is the case. If you aren't ever being submissive, can you really be submissive? It is a truism that highlights the fallacy of taking "everyone has their own definition of x" to the extreme. If you argue that there is no requirement to being submissive, than the word has no meaning and you might as well call yourself a rutabaga. For a classification to have meaning, it must have boundaries. There has to be at least one unique universally shared feature, collection of features, or absence thereof.


Being submissive and the act of submission are two different things.  It's easy to mix up the two granted, but its worth working out that they aren't the same.
 
the.dark.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 1:08:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Despite the fact that your tone may be met with many "rolleyes" responses, there is a truth hidden in your words.

There are two situations that come into my mind:

If you are speaking of subs who do not display specific subservience just via private message and interaction on this site, I think the assessment is askew. I support tact as a general rule of thumb, but a message received from a self-titled 'Dom' on the site should not automatically need to be responded to in overt reverence (e.g. the sub titling the Dom , etc. or immediately yielding to whatever weird task the stranger has asked at the outset).

Now...on the other hand, everyone's view of D/s can be a little bit different and there are (it appears to me) plenty of subs who don't realize they only want to be role-play subs or part-time (at their convenience) subs who perhaps word their views without having taken thorough introspection (to be fair, this is true of some Doms also). I make personal mention of this in my bio because I'm not fond (in the least) of subs who have this willful reservation to be 'bratty' if they want; as if it's some reservoir of symbolic 'independence' they should get the right to brandish at will for no reason (usually in lieu of having a more sensible means of asserting themselves).

And then, of course, you have the eternal debate between the 'trigger subs' and the 'natural subs'...where the former are looking to be submissive only if encountering a certain level of 'strength of dominance' from another (e.g. most often, these describe their submission as a "gift"), rather than having subservience be an inherent characteristic to their persona.

And, lastly, despite the aversion of many to use titles to help inform (because some people appear to have an innate fear of being 'categorized'), I think you will find those more wholly in tune with a greater level of surrender describing themselves as 'slaves' as opposed to 'subs'.


I intend to come back to this later but I did want to say that what you have said above makes a lot of sense to me.  [;)]



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Where are the submissive submissives? (10/2/2008 1:12:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor

So I've been asking myself this, and it's plagueing me.  Why is this site full of "submissives" who put stuff in their profile like, "I'm submissive, but I'm not a doormat!"? 


While I don't put this personally in my profile, my first thought was they put that in their profile because they felt it important to reveal up front.  Let's face it, the BDSM/D's/M's etc. spectrum has a WIDE range of possibilities that leave a great deal open to intrepretation. If a submissive/slave puts in their profile they are not a doormat, one is left to assume nothing more than that they are communicating to the reader that they do not consider themselves to be a doormat.  It leaves the reader with the opportunity to proceed with communicating with the person to determine what that individuals concept of "doormat is" and/or to move on to someone else.

quote:

 I hear this, and then I talk to them only to find that the most basic of submissive acts is considered being a doormat.  They won't obey a Dom, because this is being a doormat.  They won't speak respectfully to their Dom because this is being a doormat!
What the hell people!?  You have to be submissive to be a submissive.  I'm starting to think these girls only say they're submissive because they're to lazy to get on top and ride their Dom like a good little slut.
What do you other Doms and subs think?
~Aslanemperor


Your closing statements are so far outside of my personal experience regarding submissives that the only response I have is huh?  I'm sorry, but I have known many wonderfully submissive individuals who would never dream of being disrespectful to their dominant, who adore submitting and behave with exceptional dignity and grace in their submission.

It seems unfortunate that your experience is so negative.  Perhaps you are misintrepreting what you are reading or perhaps your definitions of certain catch phrases are not meshing with what the submissives are actually intending to portray in their profiles?  I cannot say.  I think, as is often the case, we find what we focus on. 

WinD



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