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RE: Gay marriage - 10/26/2008 8:37:13 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline
quote:

Why don't we just end all this bullshit by abolishing straight marriage?


I don't mind strait people so much,
as long as they are willing to act queer in public.

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(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 381
RE: Gay marriage - 10/26/2008 8:51:03 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

quote:

Your not the only one with tragedies in their families so get off your high horse...I choose to keep mine private instead of the “look at me feel sorry for me” crap you put out.


See, Kdsub, here is the thing that you are demonstrating that you are entirely incapable of wrapping your head around.

SMG does not think she has a tragedy in her life. She thinks, (sorry to speak for you, SBG, feel free to come along and bitch slap me if I am off here, - or, well, anyways, should you wanna) - I should probably say, about my own Aspburgers boys, I THINK - they are wonderful additions to the planet. They add something to the nature of the universe, and part of what they add is BECAUSE of their aspburgers.

I have worked with special children, as in, my whole job centering on special children. Now, I work with general population children, only a few special children thrown in (as if every child wasn't special.)

There is a little boy in my mother's church who has Downs. apparently, when he was three or four, his mother went to the church elders and extracted from them a promise to never hold him back in youth group, sunday school, ect - to let him participate with children his own age.
He is 12 now, and they are starting to regret it. (actually started to regret it when he was around 6). Like many Downs kids, his growth is a bit unchecked, and he is a big boy. Like many downs kids, he is exuberant and likes to touch and be physical. Sometimes the other kids get hurt. Not injured - just, knocked down, ect. Apparently the other kids moms can be a bit annoyed by all this.
And, I said to my mom - 'but don't they see, how lucky they are, that their child gets to have this child to interact with? Isn't that worth an occasional scraped knee? Their child gets to have this child as a freind.' Downs children (and any other special need - each in its own special way) add something to the universe nothing else can.
My Mother said, 'NOt everyone thinks like you, Latricia.'
Well, apparently not.




Your wrong...I agree with everything you are saying...I have said over and over... I'm talking numbers...averages...These conditions do NOT have anything to do with the worth of a life. And it pisses me off when someone tries to twist my words and meaning.

I understand how words on the net can be read wrong...I tried to explain what a meant...but she kept attacking me for things I was not saying. Yes I went overboard but so did she. She made assumptions that are not true…She used her family members to add weight to her insults to me. I find that revolting.

But maybe I am reading her wrong...maybe I hit a nerve…maybe I would have been better off just apologizing and moving on giving her the benefit of doubt.

Could be the case so I am just going to let her have the last shot and move on.

Butch

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 382
RE: Gay marriage - 10/26/2008 8:53:06 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

sambamanslilgirl... did you not read the second sentence?... the normal girl and boy has all their arms and legs.. is not autistic...is not retarded...and is NOT bi or gay...That is the average or norm.

Then did you not read where I said these mistakes or deviations from the norm have NOTHING to do with the WORTH of a person?

Do not read something into my words that are not there.

Now tell me you can't read my profile...look at my avatar and guess at what shoes I wear.

Butch


So now you've arbitrarily decided what the fuck is normal and what isn't? Christ almighty, this is the twenty first century, not the goddamn Middle Ages.

So I guess Louis Braille was not normal?
or Helen Keller?




I haven't determined what is average...nature has...Your just looking for a fight like a troll...I'm not biting...have a good life.


Since you can't handle logic.....BITE ME!


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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 383
RE: Gay marriage - 10/26/2008 9:14:44 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

Especially for those who say such nonsense, they can see it is not sodom and gomorra here ;)

Sodomy and Ghamora?  What's a giant flying turtle got to do with anal sex? 
Oh... probably about as much as gay marriage would with destroying the sanctity of marriage.


AWESOME POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 384
RE: Gay marriage - 10/26/2008 9:16:23 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

VampGoddess

Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home.
.......That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.


Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
First the response is a non sequiter and doesnt address the premise.

It is known beyond any doubt whatsoever  that on average   children of single parents tend to exhibit more behavioural difficulties than those from more conventional backgrounds.
First off, the irony of those "answers" is as plain as the nose on Pinocchio's face. Can't believe you missed it.

And secondly, if  "it is known beyond any doubt", you should have no problem citing studies supporting your assertion, right?

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 385
RE: Gay marriage - 10/26/2008 10:40:54 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline
Actually, I know of studies citing the opisite. That children in single parent families, children whose parents work, children who grow up in child care, children of divorce, ect, ect - do not show strong trends towards more behavoiral difficulties.

I do know that there were studies around the time *I* was growing up, that showed that children of divorce had more difficulities. But, society had not acclimated to divorce as a norm. I may not *love* the idea of divorce, but, for children, societal norms are what it's all about. You can adjust for it in your home, if you are attentive to your children and work at it, but what children struggle with, as often as not, is *differentness*. Society said that divorce was off, and the children of divorce had trouble with it. In this case, that didn't mean society was wrong - divorce is still not the goal. Its just that, when children are surrounded by other children of divorce, they don't have a problem with it.

It's like transiet kids - kids who move around a lot. They usually have a lot of trouble dealing with all the moves. BUT - kids who come from transient cultures, where the stresses of moving are normal and ways to deal with them built into daily life - like transient farm kids, and military brats - there are clear studies showing they don't have bad pschological outcomes from moving everytime the weather changes. Because it is the norm in their culture.

Now - want me to tell you what DOES cause bad outcomes?
The biggest one is out of the picture fathers. Growing up with a father other than bio dad does not seem to be the issue - even if it is grandfather or uncle. Growing up with a father not sleeping in the next room, kids seem to handle okay. But when Dad steps out of the picture all together, we get statistically bad outcomes. You know what men in prison have in common more than any other single factor? More than race, more than education, more then economic status, more even than drug use and alcoholism? they grew up fatherless.
Want me to cite a great study on it?
Fatherless America by David Blankenhorn
Blankenhorn says something interesting about his book. He says, some people have used 'the greatest generation' to tell him it's bunk. They say, 'look at WWII. A whole generation grew up without Fathers'. Of course, first we have the suport system of the social norm to explain that. But Blankenhorn says something else, as well. He says, "There is a big difference between a child growing up, saying, 'My Dad isn't here with me. He really, really wants to be here, he'll be here as soon as he can, but, right now, he is off making the world safe for democracy." and a child saying to themselves, 'My father does not want to see me or be part of my life.'

Oh, and on the subject of things that cause really bad outcomes for kids, here's another one - the foster care system. Statisticly, kids from the foster care system are more likely to fail entirely - end up homeless, on drugs and unable to maintain relationship or jobs, in gangs, or in prison - than children from the homes like 'Sybil', 'Trudi Chase' and I grew up in. I have strong opinions on the reasons, but that would pretty much confirm this as a jack.

To get it back on track, kids can grow up in gay homes without the intense feeling of unsuported differtness. Any differentness that you make an active decision to place your kids within CAN be positive for them - becuase you are active in thier live, you are making choices to get the most good out of your choices while trying to minimize the bad. A social network of other Gay led families, a church home where you are considered normal and average, just like everyone else - ect, ect - all will go a long way to helping your child have a positive experience.
Like the little boy in my group last year who spent 3 weeks dancing around, singing, telling everyone and anyone who would listen - 'My Mom's are getting Married!'

And, yes, single parents do it all the time, too. I did it for mine. 6 weeks after we lost their father, the cubmaster called and said, 'normally we have a father son bake off at this time of year, but we were talking about suspending it, for your boys sake.'
I said, 'no way.' I knew - my boys needed to know they still had men in thier life to step up to the plate. So I made phone calls - to grandfathers, uncles and godfathers - and cakes got baked. My father, who's entire cooking ability stops at heating canned soup in a microwave - we are talking about a man who won't even make koolaid or make himself a sandwich - baked a cake.

You are not going to able to back up your 'everybody knows' statements with studies from this generation, because all the current studies show the oppisite. With active and involved family, children do just fine in single parent homes.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 386
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