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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:28:35 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I am right with you, Khem! A submissive has to reallllly get to know me before he gets to have any kind of sex with me, worshipful or otherwise. Offering that kind of thing from the get-go is distinctly unappealing.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:33:36 AM

undergroundsea

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It's easy for me to see the appeal for a submissive in providing oral pleasure.

For those who like to please, it is one way to do so. For those who see a worshipful flavor in their submission, this activity can be one way to express worship. Also, there is D/s value in providing unreciprocated oral sex upon command. The way it is done or framed can enhance the D/s value.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:37:41 AM

undergroundsea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett
No man ever got gagged by licking a clit.

I did once ;-) My olfactory sense became overwhelmed and it made for awkward moment. It may have been due to a hygiene issue.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:49:14 AM

undergroundsea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
A submissive has to reallllly get to know me before he gets to have any kind of sex with me, worshipful or otherwise. Offering that kind of thing from the get-go is distinctly unappealing.

Sure, I agree intimacy and attraction matters. While the threshhold may be less for men, it matters for most men as well. Still, I don't think that the requirement for intimacy or attraction removes the potential for D/s value.

To address the discussion more generally outside the post I quote above, in oral sex one person expends physical energy to provide pleasure to another while receiving no direct physical gratification (any accompanying arousal I consider to come from mental gratification). One person puts their mouth, usually a symbolically high part of one's body, on another's genitalia, which can be seen as a symbolically lesser part of the body (like the ass or feet). I think it is this symbolism that lends to the worship dynamic.

When one person expends energy simply for the pleasure or comfort of another without direct compensation (be it cooking a meal, be it giving a massage, be it oral sex), it can come from fondness or affection, submission, worship, or a little of each. These motivations are not the comprehensive list of motivations to provide oral sex but I do see them as legitimate motivations.

One point that has been raised is that even vanilla men like to provide oral sex, and that D/s is being used as a guise for an activity that is enjoyed by vanilla men. Outside of BDSM, why do men who enjoy giving oral pleasure alone for the sake of providing it enjoy it, and is that motivation antithetical to D/s?

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 10/24/2008 7:52:05 AM >

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:51:27 AM

youngsubgeoff

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Oral sex for me is just that, oral sex! Its not about D/s or servitude or worshiping, its about enjoying your partner. Ive always disliked the term "oral service/ servitude" because it sounds like something your being forced to do even though you don't like it. I can guarantee if the giver is not enjoying it, neither will the receiver.

quote:

No man ever got gagged by licking a clit

ohh the stories I could tell you... there is more than one way to be gagged

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:55:46 AM

LadyPact

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I'm surprised I've made it onto this thread before DarchChylde. The term "oral service" happens to be one of our favorite debates.

I'm not going for the slave training aspect of this, but it isn't necessarily just a vanilla sex act, either. It's like someone said above. It depends on the spin you put on it. Who's in control of the act? There's definitely a difference between a command and a request. Nobody ever said that just because the sub was happy to oblige, that the command was any less of one.

As for this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett
No man ever got gagged by licking a clit.

I did once ;-) My olfactory sense became overwhelmed and it made for awkward moment. It may have been due to a hygiene issue.

Cheers,

Sea

Ewww, Sea. Just ewww.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 7:59:21 AM

undergroundsea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff
it sounds like something your being forced to do even though you don't like it. I can guarantee if the giver is not enjoying it, neither will the receiver.

I think it is more a matter of semantics. I think the sentiment behind using the word forced is to provide oral sex upon command. And I think submissives enjoy being commanded. Thus, I think forced oral sex means being commanded to provide oral pleasure with all the points pertinent to D/s I convey in my prior post.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 8:06:09 AM

Coupleofwhats

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I think it's weird when that's the ONLY activity that a so-called submissive takes any interest in.

It's also strange to me that what is generally called fondling/petting is now "worship." I suspect it originated in either porn or pro domination, to provide either a reason for there to be touching of the female dominant, or a euphemism for sexual contact.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 8:19:10 AM

youngsubgeoff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff
it sounds like something your being forced to do even though you don't like it. I can guarantee if the giver is not enjoying it, neither will the receiver.

I think it is more a matter of semantics. I think the sentiment behind using the word forced is to provide oral sex upon command. And I think submissives enjoy being commanded. Thus, I think forced oral sex means being commanded to provide oral pleasure with all the points pertinent to D/s I convey in my prior post.

Cheers,

Sea

with me.... ehhh, not so much. My sumission grows out of love, and knowing that I am loved. Some random person trying to order me around is just going to get the finger from me. Mistress on the other hand, gets my best because I love her.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 8:30:55 AM

LadyJulieAnn

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I think many subs fantasize that they will have to do it 24/7 (and some have offered that), which could get a bit difficult if normal life is to continue. The idea, as some have already mentioned, of the woman "commanding" that it be done, which could occur at any time, is also a big part of the fantasy (or reality, for some). I personally want my boy to naturally appreciate all parts of my body, without having to be "forced". If I want to increase his submission, I'm not going to force oral sex with me, but I will force it on him with a dildo.

< Message edited by LadyJulieAnn -- 10/24/2008 8:31:34 AM >

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 8:40:36 AM

undergroundsea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff
with me.... ehhh, not so much. My sumission grows out of love, and knowing that I am loved. Some random person trying to order me around is just going to get the finger from me. Mistress on the other hand, gets my best because I love her.

If a woman commands a submissive partner with whom she has an intimate relationship to provide her oral pleasure, I expect he will still perform with the enthusiasm driven by his fondness and regard for her, and, if he responds to D/s and commands positively, will also respond at another level.

Usually in D/s scenarios commands are not accepted from random persons but from one in whom one has some amount of interest or connection. The amount of interest or connection is related to the type of command accepted. And the amount of interest is influenced by demographics.

I believe it was girlwithboy who in an older thread used the term demographic-induced desperation. I think there is also room for the idea of demographic-induced attraction.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 10/24/2008 8:42:18 AM >

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 8:47:48 AM

undergroundsea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn
I personally want my boy to naturally appreciate all parts of my body, without having to be "forced".

Fair point--part of a woman's gratification from oral pleasure might come from the idea that the man wants to please her in that way. That said, I think the two--wanting to provide oral sex and being commanded to provide oral sex--are not mutually exclusive. For the sub's part, he would need to otherwise convey how much he appreciates doing it (which can be reflected by the enthusiasm and energy), or, at a different time, initiate to the extent the dynamic allows.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:11:27 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

Oral servitude ... I start laughing every time I hear this. I get emails from men saying they are into this. When did a very common vanilla sex act become a matter of slave training? Are you kidding me?

This just reeeeeks of "I really want to get laid and get into your pink parts, but I'm gonna dress it up as some sort of slave thing"

Last I checked, very few men had to be "forced" to go down on a woman. Since when did this become a mark of submission?

/rant

Most subs into "oral service" or "pussy worship" to this degree have found a way to take a wonderful act and turn it into objectification. It's not about the woman's pleasure at that point - it's about him getting to eat pussy for hours. If you are not sure of that, tell the sub that yes, you are VERY turned on by oral worship and are wired to have orgasms for days - but it's not your pussy, it's your index finger, and that's the only part of your body he can lick and suck for hours.

It's mostly a joke, but seriously, how many submissive men would be ready and willing to worship a woman's FINGER for hours if it gave her endless orgasms? Your garden variety sub (and I mean that in a good way) absolutely. Your 'pussy worship sub'? They lose interest immediately. The focus is more on the act of pussy worship than pleasing.

In my experience, also, the guys way into oral are BAD at it. It comes with being self indulgent. The ones that are indifferent and/or see it as part of the entire package of foreplay/adoration can approach it with a mix of tenacity and effort along with arousal and pleasure - so they aren't just thinking about themselves the entire time. The other problem with "pussy hounds" is that they are woefully one dimensional in bed. It's all about going down. I like a man who can perform a variety of sexual wonders.

Akasha

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:38:08 AM

Politesub53

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From my standpoint, i see lots of Domina`s profiles demanding oral skills. That is no suprise to me, as it shows the variety of things that both sexes may be into. I also smile when it is said submissives want to do it for hours, most end up with neck ache and a sore tongue well before then. So on that level, there really does become a time when even those of us who enjoy the act, could indeed be forced to carry on.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:52:17 AM

chiaThePet

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Sometimes my Dominants force me to dress up in long flowing robes
and ride a horse through waves of sand dunes in the hot desert sun.

I am transformed into "Lawrence Of The Labia".

"Midnight at the Oasis, send your camel toe bed."

chia* (the pet)

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:56:12 AM

MissEnchanted

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Yep, what she said!

And, out here in Ca expert pussy licking by men who get super turned on by all of it is as normal as apple pie. It's been that way for decades on the west coast....

ME

edited to add: Good pussy eating is an art. All women like different things. I won't go into the two basic types here, more on that part later. When a man is sensuous, and stays connected to his lover: Sensitive to his partners responses/needs or lack thereof : It's all good.

I can tell by a person's kiss if they are good at 'pussy worship'. That first kiss is quite special and telling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

No man ever got gagged by licking a clit. I can see the correlation... but there's a big difference between an action that is basically 'kissing the other lips' and having an O-Ring chipping your teeth and a cock crammed down your throat. Yes, I know, some people like that also. I'm talking about the potential pain and damage aspect is not equal between male & female 'oral servitude.' Yes, an unwashed 'pink shrine' can get pretty funky. So can an unwashed 'rooster'. And I've had male partners who licked until their tongue was sore and their jaws ached. Well to bad. Get over it.

Oral sex is a REWARD... not a service.

< Message edited by MissEnchanted -- 10/24/2008 10:04:22 AM >

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:57:24 AM

PeonForHer

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If it seems like a common vanilla sex act he must be doing something wrong . . .

One of the best compliments I've ever received: "I've had that done before, but never like that." The woman in question was a vanilla, so I kept quiet about having Xian's kind of belief as the motivator behind my 'efforts'.

OK, that's my one and only boast for today.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:57:34 AM

OttersSwim

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I definitely enjoy it, and it is the primary way that my Lady can "get her cookie" and so it is something I am -all about- as often or as long as she likes. Yes, you can end up with sore this and that the next day - I think that is just as delicious as a sore bite mark or hiney - it is a mark of service.

So I say YAY for whatever people want to call it, classify it, deify it, etc...

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 9:58:00 AM

Racquelle

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Reminds me of a Leonard Cohen song...

She stands before you naked
you can see it, you can taste it,
and she comes to you light as the breeze.
Now you can drink it or you can nurse it,
it don't matter how you worship
as long as you're
down on your knees.

So I knelt there at the delta,
at the alpha and the omega,
at the cradle of the river and the seas.
And like a blessing come from heaven
for something like a second
I was healed and my heart
was at ease.

O baby I waited
so long for your kiss
for something to happen,
oh something like this.

And you're weak and you're harmless
and you're sleeping in your harness
and the wind going wild
in the trees,
and it ain't exactly prison
but you'll never be forgiven
for whatever you've done
with the keys.

O baby I waited ...

It's dark now and it's snowing
O my love I must be going,
The river has started to freeze.
And I'm sick of pretending
I'm broken from bending
I've lived too long on my knees.

Then she dances so graceful
and your heart's hard and hateful
and she's naked
but that's just a tease.
And you turn in disgust
from your hatred and from your love
and comes to you
light as the breeze.

O baby I waited ...

There's blood on every bracelet
you can see it, you can taste it,
and it's Please baby
please baby please.
And she says, Drink deeply, pilgrim
but don't forget there's still a woman
beneath this
resplendent chemise.

So I knelt there at the delta,
at the alpha and the omega,
I knelt there like one who believes.
And the blessings come from heaven
and for something like a second
I'm cured and my heart
is at ease.

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RE: Oral Servitude - 10/24/2008 10:06:26 AM

Venatrix