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RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 7:30:33 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

in a Master.  Maybe someone can explain that to me.

They never existed.

Sometimes (alas, not always) you can find them in a man, however.


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(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 7:34:10 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking
[I want to know what happened to honor and integrity] in a Master.  Maybe someone can explain that to me.

Sure, piece of cake.  I figure that about the same percentage of honorable people (not masters, people) exist today as yesterday as 200 years ago as 10,000 years ago.  So the real question I think is why are YOU attracting dishonorable people?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 7:38:51 AM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		One thing that I have learned in all life, not just in BDSM, is that people tend to stick expectations on others. They assume xyz will happen and happen now, if not yesterday. There are all kinds of people in every element of life, and sometimes we make wrong choices for ourself. That is part of living and growing. Without these experiences how would you know what honor and integrity really is. Also through learning, our views on this will grow, and we become more concern with how we carry on in life, rather then them.

Yes there are masters who have honor and integrity on-line and off line. Personally, I am of the belief, like attract like. That, I do know is a hard pill for some people to swallow.

oceanwynds

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 9:08:07 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I figure that about the same percentage of honorable people (not masters, people) exist today as yesterday as 200 years ago as 10,000 years ago.  So the real question I think is why are YOU attracting dishonorable people?


Please, chisel this in granite and place it above the doorway to every building in America as a constant reminder to those who need it.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 9:16:06 AM   
ODadEO


Posts: 44
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline 		IMO, BDSM has become the refuge place (thanks to places like alt and CM, not that I would rather do without them (well, I can do without alt)) for morons and ego-maniacs who feel much more important to themselves than other people will recognize.  In this realm, they can place the honorifics and titles on themselves without having to wait for others to see them as such!  (Which, for most, would never happen.)  So, as it has grown from the smaller rather close-knit society it once was into the populous at large, it has taken on more of the characteristics of that populous -- and most will know what that means.  Honor and integrity have always been characteristics of only a 'chosen few' but when a 'membership' is restricted (as it used to be for the BDSM crowd) those traits can become more common.  But it has now been 'dumbed down' to the general population's rank, and lost much in the process.

Ok, I took a long winded approach to say that, but it felt good ;)

edit:  Dang, I always get the 'In reply to' person wrong... this was to the OP, not NorthernGent


< Message edited by ODadEO -- 11/21/2008 9:20:06 AM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 9:21:19 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly.
You teach people how to treat you (not to quote that fatass Dr. Phil) but its true. People who complain about being in an abusive relationship or in one where lies pervade the dynamic...have allowed that all to happen in some way.
im not blaming the victim in an active situation...but i run like the wind (or as fast as my fat lil legs will carry me) from folks who's last few encounters have been drama filled or abusive...yadayada.

Red flags are red and clearly visible...they are simply ignored out of some sense of lonliness or desparation...so if the last few people you have dealt with are less than honorable...in whatever way, its because you are attracting them or allowing them to stay in your life despite the huge red flag flapping in your face.

Finding a person with integrity is not hard...most folks out there are trying to get by the best they can...you just need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 9:50:23 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The problem is usually expecting those characteristics without any real reason to do so.


yes.. like because they self-identify as a Master that they will have honor and integrity in the first place.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 9:54:55 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

You know, I dont post that often and I find than when I do, my question or concern immediately gets dumped back into my lap.  it would be nice if someone asked me what prompted my question and attempted to answer accordingly.


I thought it was rather obvious why you asked such question in your OP.  But none the less... it needed to be dumped back on you to be more clear in what you actually wanted to know.


quote:


Irealize this is a kink site -  and tiny, please do not make assumptions about how I operate here, I assure you I am very clear about who I am  - but many on this site approach a sub like john approaches a pros.  Well even a prostitute deserves respect.  That is my main point.  There is little respect and honor.  Sorry.  lets not deny that this is a problem.  It may be a problem on vanilla sites or in the world in general, I dont care.  It still appears to be a stunningn problem here.   And also, what is a problem, is  - and I have posted before - the rush to criticize the person who is asking the question.  I f "you" dont like the question, may be you dont have t answer it.   


When  a person has Unrealistic expecations they will always be disppointed and most often people will indeed dump it back on to their lap.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 10:05:25 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

you are missing the point.  I dont assume anything because of someone's title.  As the saying goes, you can dress up a pig but he's still a pig.  What I am referring to is the lack of, as I said, honor and integrity, or even social skills on this site. 



mmmmmmmm what exactly does lack of mean.  Does that mean there is none?  Should those here who have honor and integrity be insulted.. maybe just sadden and disappointed that you feel that way.  I wonder how those with rather chrismatic social skills on this site should feel?

Again.. what does lack of actually mean.  I personally think there is many people on this site that do indeed have honor and integrity and social skills as well.  Of course there are many others that are not in abundent of these traits and skills.  However, my exposure to them has been rather limited on the negative side and much more on the positive side.  So.. I have to wonder.. why it appears you are exposed to many on the negative side.  Maybe you should wonder as well... since so many don't seem to be having your problem.  Are your expectation unrealistic? are doing something that attracts that which you don't enjoy or maybe even repelling those that you wish to attract?  Maybe the issue is within you.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 10:14:07 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

you are missing the point.  I dont assume anything because of someone's title.  As the saying goes, you can dress up a pig but he's still a pig.  What I am referring to is the lack of, as I said, honor and integrity, or even social skills on this site. 

Hope t hat helps.


i pulled this out of the middle of the sniper fire....i was wondering what was motivating the OP and decided it must have been that somehow you were betrayed or your trust was broken in some way...blanket statements about integrity, honor etc....

Why wouldnt the solution lie with you? Dont you agree that part of being an honest, honorable, person of integrity also included personal accountablity and responsibility?

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 10:37:01 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking
[I want to know what happened to honor and integrity] in a Master.  Maybe someone can explain that to me.

Sure, piece of cake.  I figure that about the same percentage of honorable people (not masters, people) exist today as yesterday as 200 years ago as 10,000 years ago.  So the real question I think is why are YOU attracting dishonorable people?


I agree with this....only to add that the illusion of masters being honorable and respectable people rose from the chest-thumping "Old Guard" image that was projected back in the early days of the net and probably elsewhere.  So it just seemed like all masters were honorable because that's what we heard about.  

It goes along with the image that all submissives needed "safe havens" and protection from the unhonorable masters out there....oops, you mean there were always unhonorable masters???

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 11:35:34 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

Exactly.
You teach people how to treat you (not to quote that fatass Dr. Phil) but its true. People who complain about being in an abusive relationship or in one where lies pervade the dynamic...have allowed that all to happen in some way.
im not blaming the victim in an active situation...but i run like the wind (or as fast as my fat lil legs will carry me) from folks who's last few encounters have been drama filled or abusive...yadayada.

Red flags are red and clearly visible...they are simply ignored out of some sense of lonliness or desparation...so if the last few people you have dealt with are less than honorable...in whatever way, its because you are attracting them or allowing them to stay in your life despite the huge red flag flapping in your face.

Finding a person with integrity is not hard...most folks out there are trying to get by the best they can...you just need to separate the wheat from the chaff.


I find, from a teaching, counselling and treripist stance, that people who inevitably findthemselves in abusive relationships are emulating the movey "Groundhog Day" and if not consiously then subconsiously seeking out partners who are abusive. Similarly it is so with partners who are addicted to drugs including alcohole, or who are wasterils and users. Such people rarfely have anything to do with people of Noble Character and thus some may hold that charactistics such as Honour, Integrety, Loyalty, Duty and Coursge have ceased to exist. .. They dream of a Camalot with Brave Honourable Knights who will rescue them. Sadly such Gentle Folk who would befit seats at the round table are spread thinly on the ground and spread far and wide but fear not the seed of chivalry did not die with Arthur as his seed is carried by the females of Anglosaxon blood so that in each generation one or more may pick up their personal excalibur and keep the chivalry alive..

Aye we tend to get what we seek if not what we want. many are those without an arse in their pants and holes in the knees of their jeans who are right where they want to be, because they didn't aspire to something better and do what it takes to get there.. If you like and want pup type of blokes with their beery breath and drunken laughter, then you dress accordingly, learn the protocols and attend pubs. If you want some higher on the socioechnomic scale then you learn where they go to relax, ledarn the required protocles, dress apropriatly and attend those places..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 11:48:43 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		In response to this, I would ask how it is even possible to -prove- that one has honor, integrity, etc., on a site like this, where there is no way to determine "truth", and where the population is world-wide and profoundly complex. The only "proof" would be the ability to know an individual person -- really know hir face-to-face and have a pretty clear glimpse into hir life to know that the things xhe speaks about come from a place of integrity... It's a little easier with the jack-offs... those usually give themselves away pretty quickly.

It seems to me that this is the perfect medium to practice the techniques of general courtesy and "caveat emptor".


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 3:45:48 PM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		That is like asking someone why they attract alcoholics.  Maybe because there are a lot of them out there?  Perhaps it is worth  examining why you find it necessary to "blame" the person who simply wishes to know why basic qualitites which I value are so lacking here.  Period.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 4:17:12 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The one thing in common all those dudes have is YOU.  And plenty of people exactly your age, your type, your bracket are meeting plenty of non loser guys.  So what are they doing that you aren't?

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 4:52:03 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		When you have a small handful of people out there, not pointing any fingers, there is the problem of individuals wanting instant gratification. They do not not want to make any investment, they want everything now. Some only are lured by the flesh, that's all they desire. Others like those girl reads here, seek more, a balance.
A submissive meets a dom/domme and perhaps thinks to themselves,'hey, is this the one, the one that girl or boy can empower to treat me well, pleasure me with soft discipline when something is done correctly or pleasure me with hard discipline when something is done incorrectly?'
Will the dom/domme have others or will they be satisfied with just me?
Can they believe me as they would want to be believed by me?
Honoring the dom/domme is as important as being dedicated.
Then there is the negative side, 'Will dom/domme discard me like yesterday's trash, when they no longer want, tire of or become bored of me?'
Is the dom/domme as dedicated to ongoing investment in girl or boy as girl or boy invests every emotion they have in the chosen dom/domme.
Integrity, honor, dedication, loyalty, love, compassion, discipline, all these values are asked from both sides.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 4:57:53 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

That is like asking someone why they attract alcoholics.  Maybe because there are a lot of them out there?  Perhaps it is worth  examining why you find it necessary to "blame" the person who simply wishes to know why basic qualitites which I value are so lacking here.  Period.


Why should your opinion that these basic qualities are lacking here be of accurate when many have an opposite view point and experience than yourself.

As Lucky has already stated...
quote:

  The one thing in common all those dudes have is YOU.  And plenty of people exactly your age, your type, your bracket are meeting plenty of non loser guys.  So what are they doing that you aren't?


I suspect your view point is indeed accurate... just as those who have an opposing experience are also accurate.  So the only you both can be right... is just maybe these indivduals are doing something different than yourself that allows them to connect with the non-loser guy you can't seem to think is lacking.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 5:22:15 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The one thing in common all those dudes have is YOU.  And plenty of people exactly your age, your type, your bracket are meeting plenty of non loser guys.  So what are they doing that you aren't?


Awe Hell Lucky, I'm her age and I've met my fair share of losers too.  We all have. 
My guess is who ever the latest troll in `master` clothing was the last one in a long line of them
that turn up regularly and she'd just hit a wall when she posted this.  Bottom line is we all
live, learn and move on hopefully as a better person. 


_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 5:55:13 PM   
greeneyedreamer


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		There are men and women who still have it. I know a few. Not tooo many but a few.

Dreamer


_____________________________

Dreamer, owned and ecstatically happy

I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

Maybe some women weren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they are suppose to run wild until they find someone just as wild to run with. Sex and the City

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: I want to know what happened to honor and integrity - 11/21/2008 6:53:00 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking
That is like asking someone why they attract alcoholics.  Maybe because there are a lot of them out there? 


Actually there aren't on a per capita basis. Unless you hang out at bars at closing time in which case you are going looking for them.

People look for the familiar. If familiar, meaning male role models during your formative years were dishonest, untrustworthy, without integrity, drunks etc then that's why you keep getting involved with people just like him. He's familiar. Better the devil you know than the one you don't.

Now the question syou haven't asked but should. How do you stop picking these familiar types of people?
Therapy. One on one, group, or self help groups such as ACOA. And don't plead poverty; you can afford a dollar in the pot at ACOA once a week.
Why haven't you done this work before now?
Fear of pain. Doing this is hard, painful work. But it's like digging into a throbbing finger to get the splinter out. It hurts to get it out but hurts more if it keeps on throbbing for years.

So get to work. And don't get involved with anyone for at least a year.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 60
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