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Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 11/26/2008 3:09:59 PM

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The website TheRegister has announced The UKs Ministry of Justice has announced that the Extreme Porn Part of The Criminal Justice and Immigration Act will become law on the 26th of January.

There is more detail on how the MOJ will interpret the law at http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/extreme-pornographic-images.pdf

The term realistic is still unclear as it says that people need to beleive that the images are real. So photos and films are banned, but also images that are "indistinguishable from photos and films". I assume then that means photo realistic CGI.

The best line ever in a UK law has to be this one though: "Where the image depicts necrophilia, defendants must prove the human corpse portrayed was not a real corpse".
Tough luck if the "corpse" gets run over outside the courthouse.. "your honour, I call the actress portraying the corp.... pardon, shes just been what?... oh bugger."

I also see that the point I made in the other extreme porn post is valid. The people in the pictures have a defence, but the person taking the photographs can't legally own the images unless they are part of the scene. See section 66 part 25.

So, it looks like us Brits have eight weeks or so before our alt-sex-asphyxiation, necrobabe, waterbondage or whatever collections become illegal.

Comfortingly, the MOJ do state that ordinary deletion of files is enough to avoid prosecution. However, that only applies if you don't have the software to recreate deleted files to hand. So be careful.

Delphius1 the criminal.

< Message edited by delphius1 -- 11/26/2008 3:11:47 PM >

RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 8:24:29 AM

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Hey will this site, its contents, its links, become illegal for us Brits under the new UK legislation? or is there nothing on this site/ the sites links that would be classed as extreme?

(in reply to delphius1)

RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 10:45:25 AM

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Ahhh well im alright, dont really keep hordes of porn (thank goodness for an imagination)

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 1:22:28 PM

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In its strictest sense, if you read the new law and take it word for word, then yes, the law is vague enough that certain pictures on this site and others will be illegal to own. By "own", that means saved to your hard drive. That could be saved deliberately, or temporary internet files saved which happens automatically just by viewing websites. There is an option in Internet Explorer to delete temporary internet files when you close the browser. I would suggest that everyone in the UK using a web browser has this option ticked. There are very few defences for having these pictures on your PC, so be careful. Not only BDSM is affected by this though, Gothic Horror sites amongst others will be caught too.

Here in the UK, free speech is coming under increasing threat. First we have the extreme porn law, then The Internet Watch Foundation in cahoots with ISPs started blocking web sites and pages. Now there is a case that the CPS intend to bring involving a guy who wrote and put up on the net a fictional story he wrote about stalking and killing Girls Aloud.

Soon it'll be like China here and we'll only get a heavily filtered internet, and we'll risk prosecution if we find a way round the walls to look at bits the government don't want us to see. New World Order? Just looks like the Old one to me. The rich and privileged minority controlling the lives of the majority.

(in reply to colouredin)

RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 1:31:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delphius1

Here in the UK, free speech is coming under increasing threat. First we have the extreme porn law, then The Internet Watch Foundation in cahoots with ISPs started blocking web sites and pages. Now there is a case that the CPS intend to bring involving a guy who wrote and put up on the net a fictional story he wrote about stalking and killing Girls Aloud.

Drama Drama Drama. You know as you said yourself the laws are vague. Every few weeks people seem to find another reason to claim big brother state and all that. At the end of the day the law is trying to protect these people. And as I said, its just bloody porn.

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 2:41:40 PM

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You crazy Redcoats...

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 4:07:26 PM

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The law as it is is designed to be vague, just like it has always been, there being open to interpretation by whoever wants to prosecute an offender. The familiar wavy line that leaves artists of all kinds scared of being themselves.

As I see it with this new law, before long, someone wil be 'got', publicised and prosecuted in a hail of media coverage and rabble roused public oppinion as a warning, an example made just to show the law makers have responded to the minority. After that, I expect it will die down and become just another law we are all guilty of breaking like so many other laws we know nothing or very little about, until such a time another example needs to be made.

Why do we elect these fools , they don't act for us, but against?

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 4:38:59 PM

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next step is the thought police, scanning your thoughts for the brain waves responsible for thoughts and images being suggestive.
what's next: ankles, necks and cleavage as it may be suggestive if someone takes a picture of such attributes being exposed

< Message edited by Aszhrae -- 1/5/2009 4:57:22 PM >

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 6:40:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
Drama Drama Drama. You know as you said yourself the laws are vague. Every few weeks people seem to find another reason to claim big brother state and all that. At the end of the day the law is trying to protect these people. And as I said, its just bloody porn.

'Vague and overly broad' has become the 'wont someone think of the children' catchphrase for kinksters. Every new law that comes into play there is going to be some paranoid fearmonger around somewhere who will claim 'Dear god, this is the end of all kink as we know it'.

I fully expect that one of these days someone will read the laws regarding cattle innoculations and sprout off with 'The word livestock is not clearly defined. This new law could be used againt ponygirls. Ack! Ack! The government is out to get us all'

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 7:01:05 PM

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Oh, and by the way, there is a rather good pamphlet put out by the spanner trust. They don't explain the difference between GBH and ABH like I wish they would have, but in whole it does a fairly good job of debunking some of the more frenzed 'the government is out to get us' style fearmongering.

http://www.spannertrust.org/documents/possession_of_extreme_pornography_share.pdf

quote:

FIRST OFF – DON’T PANIC!
Images of bondage, fetish wear, role play, watersports, sexual intercourse and
domination/submission are not “extreme”.
Images of corporal punishment, whipping and flogging, needle play, cutting,
heat play or medical scenes involving areas besides the anus, genitals or
breasts are almost certainly safe to possess (though the activities themselves
may be illegal due to the Spanner ruling - see page 3).
In fact the list of images which are certain to fall under the law is very small
compared to the wide range of BDSM, kink and fetish images available

I know even while posting this that I am in no way going to even slow down the frantic screams of how the evil closed minded prudes in government hate all sex. They will probably come up with some excuse like how the spanner trust is just a front group for the christian right that is spreading lies and propaganda.

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 8:02:59 PM

piratecommander

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterMonster

You crazy Redcoats...

Not all of us are Redcoats...

Pirate

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/5/2009 8:17:12 PM

piratecommander

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtyboykink

Hey will this site, its contents, its links, become illegal for us Brits under the new UK legislation? or is there nothing on this site/ the sites links that would be classed as extreme?

It will be interesting watching the results come in , the word pornographic as will have to be used , will be tested in new dimensions . The idea that a "Judge" will at some point be likely to have to decide (in their own opinion) if BDSM "educational images" (I thought that would make it a bit trickier !) are "pornographic" . To decide that said images ARE , said "Judge" will have to decide that they are designed to be sexually stimulating or words to that effect !

I guess there will be a queue of "Judges" pondering long and hard in their private chambers ................. ?????

Will the Jury be able to keep straight faces ?

Pirate

(in reply to dirtyboykink)

RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/6/2009 12:58:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Drama Drama Drama. You know as you said yourself the laws are vague. Every few weeks people seem to find another reason to claim big brother state and all that. At the end of the day the law is trying to protect these people. And as I said, its just bloody porn.

Actually, yes, I do see it as a drama. A bloody big one. It seems that year on year someone implements a new law that restricts my personal freedom and that of others using my own tax money. I've lived 46 years without being hurt or hurting others (that didn't want to be hurt

) and I don't see why the government should mess about with what I do in my private life.

I'm not a smoker, but I see the justice in allowing smokers the right to smoke in enclosed public places, which is now banned in the UK.

Similarly I see the injustice in banning violent porn for the majority because one man said it made him kill a girl.

I've seen the incessant tide of restrictive legislation and been concerned. We got along fine without it all even the anti-terror stuff in the past (even while the IRA were at their most active), so why do we need all the extra rules, regulations and laws?

I might look at stuff on the internet that might make other people cringe, but does that mean it has to be made illegal?

The reason these laws are made is because people allow them to be made. If we all kicked up a fuss then the politicians would think twice, but no, everybody stays silent, doesn't think about it and carries on. At its most basic level, if the laws are passed and never used, why spend all that time and money debating and implementing them? If they're going to be used for a particular purpose, why make the law so vague and then waste money debating the semantics trying to establish case law in court? Its just wasteful of time and money (yours and my money) that could be better spent on other, more important things.

At worst, these laws are so vague they can be used for almost anything: like using anti-terror laws to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks. The same goes for the extreme porn law: its vague enough to be twisted and used against almost any porn, if it was so wished.

Mark.

(in reply to colouredin)

RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/6/2009 1:06:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delphius1

I'm not a smoker, but I see the justice in allowing smokers the right to smoke in enclosed public places, which is now banned in the UK.

The reason these laws are made is because people allow them to be made. If we all kicked up a fuss then the politicians would think twice, but no, everybody stays silent, doesn't think about it and carries on.

Im from the UK too, and I actually am pretty pro smoking ban, i dont have the right to give other people cancer but i do have the right to give it to myself.

People have kicked up a fuss, there has been months and months of kicking up a fuss, i stay silent mostly because i dont give a toss.

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/6/2009 1:59:27 PM

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quote:

At worst, these laws are so vague they can be used for almost anything: like using anti-terror laws to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks. The same goes for the extreme porn law: its vague enough to be twisted and used against almost any porn, if it was so wished.

Mark.

Vague laws have but one purpose, the ability to be manipulated in any direction a prosecutor sees fit, the use of anti terror legislation to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks, was an apalling misuse of power, and a warning of how effective vague laws can be.

As porn can be defined as art, a vague law can be used against art, how long will it be before bone fide art, paintings, sculpture etc finds itself under the kosh. Just think, a statue in a city centre, a classic nude, all it takes is for someone to define nudity as obscene, perhaps an obscenity to belief, or innocent eyes for that statue, which is an image albeit a three dimensional image to find itself removed.

As for stopping this Bill, I don't think that was possible, but protests there have been many, there are many organisations fighting against this bill, see here

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/6/2009 2:05:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

As porn can be defined as art, a vague law can be used against art, how long will it be before bone fide art, paintings, sculpture etc finds itself under the kosh. Just think, a statue in a city centre, a classic nude, all it takes is for someone to define nudity as obscene, perhaps an obscenity to belief, or innocent eyes for that statue, which is an image albeit a three dimensional image to find itself removed.

Ohh I dunno thats a bit far fetched for me im afraid. Its true that porn can be seen as art, indeed many of the classics were considered pornography for the upper classes but I just dont see it.

I can understand the motivation behind this law I really can, with the rise and rise of amature porn it only makes sense that the law is there to protect people. I mean I may be proved wrong they may go to far that remains to be seen. At the moment I view it this way, the government seems to be struggling treading water it makes sense in political terms that they impliment laws in places that they can, there will probably be some who are made an example of too but i really dont think it will impact much.

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/6/2009 2:17:29 PM

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when I read the pdf (and perhaps I misunderstood)...the "normal" porn will not be in danger.

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/6/2009 2:19:40 PM

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yeah you are right JD it wont

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/7/2009 5:56:23 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
As porn can be defined as art, a vague law can be used against art, how long will it be before bone fide art, paintings, sculpture etc finds itself under the kosh. Just think, a statue in a city centre, a classic nude, all it takes is for someone to define nudity as obscene, perhaps an obscenity to belief, or innocent eyes for that statue, which is an image albeit a three dimensional image to find itself removed.

I agree with cione here. It is far fetched. As an artist, you follow the right proceedures, have the correct paperwork, it's all cool. Even if porn could be defined as an artform, so can hairdressing. We aren't going to see issues if people are sensible.
If people are going to open themselves to the police coming into their homes and finding illegal and crap porn in their possession then more fool them.

the.dark.

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RE: Uk Extreme Porn Law comes into force 26th Jan - 1/7/2009 6:42:47 AM

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I tend to think on the extreme, the 'what if ', senario and good old Murphy's law, '' What can go wrong will '', but I change the ''will '' into '' can'', so I am prepared for problems as they arise. With the extreme porn law, I do not trust those that would wield such a law, as it is the very wording of the bill has invited concern from many human rights organisations. Now either the bill proposers suffer an extreme case of bad legal language usage , or they actually mean what they said, I feel professionals in law know what they are doing, they are not incompetant, so their wording was intended to go through as is, something which can be used as control and even thought policing.

As to the extent of powers that might come with this law, vague though it is, remembering that the special anti terror police were used to freeze Icelandic funds, a total misuse of their purpose, I am wary, and perhaps I will change my activities to err on the safe side, but at the same time see it as a restriction on my human rights, something as a little person, I have no power to stop except support the organisations that act for human rights. Human rights and politics don't often coincide in reality, politics is about power and control.

But then if one was active in support of certain political monitoring groups, then one would no doubt come to the attention of the authorities, make too big a noise they might look deeper, and hey presto, maybe a vague law can be applied to shut them up and ridicule them.

I just tend to think of what can be possible and work between that and as it is now.

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