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RE: Bitter much? - 11/30/2008 11:53:46 PM   
DommeyProfile


Posts: 11
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Hon, it's because we can get laid anywhere.  Every male on the planet has a dick in his pants.


Lady Dear, every female has a pussy in her panties, and many of them have a paddle that is not getting used. Seems to me it should be tit-for-tat.



Speaking of pussies, some of us are happy just spending the evening home alone with the cat and a good book, instead of spending it with men who have nothing to offer. 

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Bitter much? - 11/30/2008 11:55:35 PM   
azjojoba


Posts: 513
Joined: 2/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

If you or most submissive men believed that, and it were true, than why the anger and bitterness?   Why pay for it? 
I wouldn't touch a man who thought it was tit for tat at all...  It would so happen that a man who enjoys what I do may get it that way because it's fun for me, but not because he shows up and I deliver.   And yes I am among the slightly over 40 folks who want more than a dick to show up, and I get it.   M


No anger or bitterness on my part. Frustration maybe. I have never seen a good reason to pay for it either.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 1:22:15 AM   
E2Sweet


Posts: 649
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

...talking about the kind of pain involved here puts someone into a very vulnerable position. That's can be hard enough for a guy to do in the first place, even more so when he can't be sure that he can trust the other person to be receptive to it....


I can't disagree, but its also worth noting that for those who are here searching for a connection, you may want to be a bit cautious on exactly how much gushing of your personal pain and past disappointments you do in the direction of one of these women when you do manage to capture her attention. I personally feel that focusing on creating and growing that new connection is the wise way to go. Certainly sharing the other stuff is fine, but balance it, balance it, balance it... A dominant is not your personal therapist, and I don't think its wise to put her in that position by throwing a generous amount of personal baggage in her direction from the get go and expecting her to accept you indeed are stable and prepared to submit...

As to the original point of the thread, yes I do believe it is a feeling of mounting disappointment and frustration that is the main motivator behind a lot of the poor behavior being discussed. A lot of men simply do not handle rejection and disappointment well at all, and some simply lash out. I don't believe its out of actual hatred of women, I think its purely frustration (perhaps even a form of mental exhaustion) rearing its ugly head...



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 2:42:14 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Anyone who thinks that a grievance, legitimate or otherwise, is a good way to start a new relationship?  Is a fool.

Strangers do not care, folks.  They are not responsible for the hurt, outrage or rejection you have suffered in the past:  trying to make them pay out reparations for some other person's crimes is NEVER going to get you what you want, which is presumably a positive connection.

The one feature which is attractive in any man, far above and beyond all others, is a positive attitude.  Without it, even the wealthiest, handsomest, most gloriously hung and virile submissive prince is magically transformed into a worthless toad.

Just as an aside, I should probably mention that bitterness and baggage is every bit as hideous on a woman as it is on a man, and being dominant doesn't make it any more attractive.  There are plenty of women here on CM who express negativity on their profiles--positive people probably pass them by on a daily basis because they see no reason to wade through the bile and battery acid.

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RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 3:37:22 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

If you or most submissive men believed that, and it were true, than why the anger and bitterness?   Why pay for it? 
I wouldn't touch a man who thought it was tit for tat at all...  It would so happen that a man who enjoys what I do may get it that way because it's fun for me, but not because he shows up and I deliver.   And yes I am among the slightly over 40 folks who want more than a dick to show up, and I get it.   M


No anger or bitterness on my part. Frustration maybe. I have never seen a good reason to pay for it either.



Your posts show otherwise.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 4:47:37 AM   
GreeneGoddess


Posts: 59
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


(am I doin it right?)

On a serious note, I think many times the guy just has completely unrealistic expectations. You can't join a dating site, even if it is BDSM related, and expect to have hordes of women clamoring to get into your pants.



Why is that an unrealistic expectation?




Married men looking for something on the side often have very unrealistic expectations of just how attractive that makes them to women, Dominant or otherwise.    For the woman, it generally boils down to just not wanting a piece of THAT drama.

Seriously - your comment shows how little you understand women.

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 6:36:50 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		The people that I have seen that seem the most bitter are those who cannot find a relationship and are simply frustrated.  However, the more bitter they become the more unlikely it is that they will find a relationship.

I get first time emails from people that show their bitterness.  I typically wish them well in their search.   They often have unrealistic expectations, and while they say that they want to be pleasing what they really want is to be pleased and can't figure out why a woman wouldn't jump at the chance.  It is a selfish mindset that is driving them.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 7:14:21 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		My immediate reaction to anyone who complains about finding a partner is two-fold:

First, what are they looking for and is it realistic?

Honestly if you are so focused on one or two fetishes or activities you seriously limit your pool of potentials. If you expect to just jump into 24/7 or TPE you are setting yourself up for failure.

My second response wonders about how long they have trying and if they are doing the same thing over and over.

Doing the same thing over and over when it gets good results is one thing, but doing the same thing over and over when you get bad results is just insane or stupid. That never impresses me.

I took a few years to figure out what approach worked best for me and my household. I had some real failures along the way but I never did the same failing approach or practice over and over, I tried to figure out what happened and change things up a bit, you know, a scientific or rational approach to life. I'm not claiming I always get the slave now but I can claim that I see much more clearly when someone is a good potential and when someone is not, when they are sincere and open and when they have too much of a list to fit in with us.

Sometimes I try to be helpful or at least ignore complaints but sometimes I get annoyed so I snap back with a snide comment or two. Seeing the same complaints over and over and over even from different people can get very tiresome.

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(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 7:29:44 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		The way I see it is, in theatre you have the kitchen sink drama which is a play featuring both drama and everyday characters. However here on the boards you can sometimes come across what I would describe as the kitchen shelf drama. The kitchen shelf of course is where you can find such things as pots and kettles.

One thing I can say that I've noticed, espcially here in this section of the boards is that given that initial contact between people is a connection between minds, you do tend to be able to work out very quickly where exactly they feel their mind exists in relation to the rest of their anatomy.

However I see a difference between whining and bitching, which for me is personally acceptable and part of human nature and comes from an outward expression of frustration or some other emotion, and genuine bitterness. Okay, given that some posters have got the whining bit mastered a bit better than your average vacuum cleaner, but I feel it's something which everybody does to some degree and if something does get your goat then why not come and let it all out? I like such people and enjoy such postings as it gives opportunities for a bit of online water sports (i.e. taking the p***) and leg pulling and we can have a bit of a laugh.

However bitterness is something else, when someone has some sort of agenda or issue and they are projecting bitterness onto the boards through their own postings, either through making some sort of negative generalisation as in why is everybody here a fake, why do dommes expect tributes, why do submissives go poof, etc etc etc or by flaming or attacking someone for what they have posted who they perceive as being a member of said generalized about group.

This of course doesn't include the ding dong partnerships you find on these boards. What is a ding dong partnership, and do you have a ding dong partner? A ding dong partner is just another poster who you either routinely disagree with or they disagree with you, but with whom you can make points, score points and even take the Mickey without getting too personal or getting into a flame war.

You get it over on the other side also, both in profiles and journal entries and you have to wonder about the thought processes of some people.

I think the causes of bitterness and frustration are numerous, it can be caused by cabin fever (too much time spent in the office or at home without getting out or meeting people), unresolved issues from the past, or even a chronic lack of jiggy jiggy. I feel that some people feel that jiggy jiggy is as essential to living as breathing and that when they're not getting any jiggy jiggy or are unable to find any jiggy jiggy they tend to get upset over their lack of jiggy jiggy and start resenting others who they perceive are getting more jiggy jiggy than them.

Just my 0.02

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(in reply to DommeyProfile)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 7:41:54 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Damn, and I thought this thread was going to be about beer.

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RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 8:16:30 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline 		It may be about beer, or something....   You know how when a person has more issues than playboy, having a beer or ten will have him/her telling you all about it?      M

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 10:03:31 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


(am I doin it right?)

On a serious note, I think many times the guy just has completely unrealistic expectations. You can't join a dating site, even if it is BDSM related, and expect to have hordes of women clamoring to get into your pants.



Why is that an unrealistic expectation?



The real answer to this is pretty simple...and I got told tis by a pretty cool guy that I admire a lot...

"Guys are like snakes...not in a bad way but in the sense that every snake needs a hole...holes don't have much need for snakes."

:)

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RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 10:15:13 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

My immediate reaction to anyone who complains about finding a partner is two-fold:

First, what are they looking for and is it realistic?

Honestly if you are so focused on one or two fetishes or activities you seriously limit your pool of potentials. If you expect to just jump into 24/7 or TPE you are setting yourself up for failure.

My second response wonders about how long they have trying and if they are doing the same thing over and over.

Doing the same thing over and over when it gets good results is one thing, but doing the same thing over and over when you get bad results is just insane or stupid. That never impresses me.

I took a few years to figure out what approach worked best for me and my household. I had some real failures along the way but I never did the same failing approach or practice over and over, I tried to figure out what happened and change things up a bit, you know, a scientific or rational approach to life. I'm not claiming I always get the slave now but I can claim that I see much more clearly when someone is a good potential and when someone is not, when they are sincere and open and when they have too much of a list to fit in with us.

Sometimes I try to be helpful or at least ignore complaints but sometimes I get annoyed so I snap back with a snide comment or two. Seeing the same complaints over and over and over even from different people can get very tiresome.


As TammyJo points out - is what they are seeking "realistic"?

I think a lot of the disillusionment in submissive men (and bitterness) comes from a simple fact:  Femdoms are fake.  They do not exist.  There is no such thing.  Is this true? YES!  I have decided that this is true, and that's the problem.  For the most part, what they seek does NOT exist.  The problem is that their perception of what a dominant women is comes from -- where?  It comes from (male generated) porn, or fantasy.  In their fantasy, the dominant woman IS interested in dominating men simply based on availability. Yes, she DOES want to dominate him, just because he is available.  The whole point of the fantasy is that he does not have to court her, impress her, develop chemistry or wait for her to be attracted to him. He is seeking a "dominant woman."  This, to him, is a woman who seeks men, indisciminately, for the purpose of using them sexually or otherwise, and quite readily.  There is no other reason he would approach her, call her "Mistress" out of the gate, kneel when he sends his introductary email, or send pictures of his ass. This is what SHE wants.  And for her to respond otherwise, to say, "No thanks, I like to know a guy and desire him before anything kinky happens" is NOT what he is seeking.

After all, how many femdom porn stories or videos do you see where the dominant lady says, "Sorry, no strap on, I want to go out to dinner a few times and get to know you first."  Needless to say, that wouldn't be a bestseller....

Akasha


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 10:25:34 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think this is a really interesting point made in reference to male generated porn. As a dyke...I feel that "lesbian porn" puts the same type of spin on the male perception of things.

So as MsK pointed out...why shouldn't FemDomme's have standards of behaviour for those they interct with on any kind of intimate level? Whether those standards are how much it costs for their time, level of behaviour to their attention, or both....why does this seem to push (particularly) male s-types off? (Note I'm gearing this toward the general audience of the Ask A Mistress Forum)

I get frustration and I'm glad CDN chose to write. It gives a particular insight that I don't think is often shared. AND people are judgemental as creatures. We make a judgement about what's on the internet what that means and what we should expect from our interactions with others who use the internet. So some FemDommes come off a certain way and some s-types come off a certain way and ta-da! Friction! Frustration! Anger! Blah blah blah...it all happens...but why is it suddenly ok for people to act differently on the internet than they would in person? I guess my observation here is that the "frustrated" or "bitter" persons come off with an attitude that I wouldn't expect in social situations...am I off base?

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 10:41:29 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I think this is a really interesting point made in reference to male generated porn. As a dyke...I feel that "lesbian porn" puts the same type of spin on the male perception of things.

So as MsK pointed out...why shouldn't FemDomme's have standards of behaviour for those they interct with on any kind of intimate level? Whether those standards are how much it costs for their time, level of behaviour to their attention, or both....why does this seem to push (particularly) male s-types off? (Note I'm gearing this toward the general audience of the Ask A Mistress Forum)

I get frustration and I'm glad CDN chose to write. It gives a particular insight that I don't think is often shared. AND people are judgemental as creatures. We make a judgement about what's on the internet what that means and what we should expect from our interactions with others who use the internet. So some FemDommes come off a certain way and some s-types come off a certain way and ta-da! Friction! Frustration! Anger! Blah blah blah...it all happens...but why is it suddenly ok for people to act differently on the internet than they would in person? I guess my observation here is that the "frustrated" or "bitter" persons come off with an attitude that I wouldn't expect in social situations...am I off base?


I think there is absolutely friction out of the gate in an online venue like this.  Sometimes I try to take a deep breath and have a totally fresh frame of mind when I open email 1 of 15 and start to get the creepy, gross, lame, weird introductions.. but by the second or third one, it's hard to have a good attitude.

The problem is that the GOOD submissive men are bitter themselves because they feel like "who are these women to complain they get too much email, I get NO email here, I would LOVE to be in their shoes" (yeah right) and they also are already on the defensive expecting to be swindled, scammed or taken advantage of.  Add on top of it a subtle "movement" that they are submissive-not-doormat, and have needs, and deserve "better," so they try to put up a bit of an abrasive, untouchable front sometimes.

At the end of the day, I long for good communication, and it's just rare. Whenever I seem to get a nice dialogue going with a submissive, he wants something from me in the end, before I am ready to give it.  It's either that I dominate him, or at least "tell him how I would," or he wants me to hook him up with a girlfriend of mine or another dominant, or something to fix his problems rather than just become friends and see what happens. And it's usually in short order, it doesn't take long.

Most men want what they want. I started a new tactic a couple of weeks ago, telling men who contact me that it will be 10 days, one email per day, discussing NOTHING kink related before we could bridge that step. And if he postured submissive, called me Mistress, talked about his genitals, I'd add another day.  Guess how long they last before they move on?

Akasha


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 10:49:23 AM   
SthrnCom4t


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		I've been online for 12-13 years and have interacted with scores of people. If someone is whiny, cranky, etc, right out of the gate, I'm very grateful. If I get an email intro or read a profile that has negativity, it makes my life so much easier. DELETE

Sometimes life is just not easy. However, people have choices on how they choose to perceive each situation. Personally, I'm extremely warped as I take every situation and turn it into a positive experience. Even if its simply learning what I don't like, finding out how strong I am, or being put in a position to have to ask for help (very hard lesson).

I believe in the Law of Attraction. I am not attracted to 'victim' types, nor 'do me' types. It's not about kink as much as it's about overall interpersonal skills.

As for meeting such a person, and trying to find out 'what's underneath'......heh, sometimes I'll do it if I'm REALLY bored, but mostly, I don't have the time to invest.

Meeting ppl online is like fishing. If you aren't attracting the type you want, perhaps you need to change the presentation of the bait?

Sthrn
Honorably served by OttersSwim


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 10:53:19 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I can't answer most of the questions, but I have an opinion as to the answer of one.

..but why is it suddenly ok for people to act differently on the internet than they would in person?

I tend to think this is based on the fact that we forget the is an actual person on the other side of the screen, not just some computer generated image created for our entertainment.



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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 12:57:39 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		BINGO




quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

If you or most submissive men believed that, and it were true, than why the anger and bitterness?   Why pay for it? 
I wouldn't touch a man who thought it was tit for tat at all...  It would so happen that a man who enjoys what I do may get it that way because it's fun for me, but not because he shows up and I deliver.   And yes I am among the slightly over 40 folks who want more than a dick to show up, and I get it.   M


No anger or bitterness on my part. Frustration maybe. I have never seen a good reason to pay for it either.






Your posts show otherwise.


and for good measure.. BINGO

< Message edited by Madame4a -- 12/1/2008 12:58:26 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 1:25:55 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		LOL Stella... I so love your way with words!

I have a saying... not to live by of course, but fun sometimes and that is... you have a right to bitch about stupid.  Okay... you bitch (and that is not to say that is how you do it, just what I say in fun) and you get over it.  Bitterness is a deeper bitch that doesn't go away.

Although I agree that a person doesn't want to hear someone's wounds and such right off the bat, she does want to know they are there for the most part.You don't want to hide them, but you don't want to wear them on your sleve so to speak.  I want to know about it within say a month.  I would actually draw it out sooner but say this for those who think they must hide it and then get stuck in the fear of telling it.  You never know how words will be taken around here. lol

Frustration I think most of us can understand and although we may be sadistic in varying degree's..lol... most of us care about our submissive's and other people.  I think a lot of this falls into the catagory of how one presents themself and when they present in a way that red flags you... why bother to get involved and see if it is a real red flag?

The op was about complaints in general I think, but this frustration in not getting what one wants tends to be the major beef.  It comes from places we can work with and then places where we want to dunk someone's head under water and ask them to speak. 

So guys... it really isn't in the wrist... it's in the approach.



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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Bitter much? - 12/1/2008 1:35:45 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

After all, how many femdom porn stories or videos do you see where the dominant lady says, "Sorry, no strap on, I want to go out to dinner a few times and get to know you first."  Needless to say, that wouldn't be a bestseller....

Akasha



I had to laugh at this for different reasons.  I will state here and now, I have never been paid for my porn stories, but I have had them out there where I can get feedback.  I like to play with different types of writing and see how I do.  I always have a storyline besides the porn as I was trying to write with women in mind as well as men.  So I blend what I hope is hot sex with a romance or something.

I get a lot of good feed back on how much I put into the stories and they tend to be well liked.  But... this once I had a longer story and put it in two halves.  Big mistake! lol  The fist half was more of the setting the stage and build up and some sex.  The second half was right in there, wham bam... all the way.  I got soooooooo slam dunked on that half! lol  No emotion... just a 'f'... My only defense could be... um, did you read the first half? lol

I don't know what will be a best seller in my porn stuff... but I know from my feed back... I am going with the emotion and am not making two part stuff again! lol

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Profile   Post #: 60
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