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RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 6:01:21 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiseCracknSadist
Maybe I'm just not evolved enough for all that yet.


Yeah...

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RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 6:23:45 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		If a man were to tell me he's a submissive, I probably wouldn't believe him.  Not because there are no true male submissives, but because 99% of  men who call themselves submissives demonstrate through action that they are part-time bottoms.  The men I know who are the most submissive to women are doting vanilla husbands.  Kinksters, not so much.

Maybe there will now be a long line of female dominants contradicting me, but somehow I doubt it.


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 6:30:17 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Nope. Ignorantly attempt to associate my male dominance with some heightened degree of strength and masculinity is an insult to all submissives, regardless of gender.

For my opinion of him to change, it would be stemming from something even more ignorant like "All men are supposed to be dominant and all women are supposed to submit and suck our cocks."

Since I don't have a derogatory viewpoint of submissives or an ignorant gender-based superiority complex, I couldn't possibly imagine viewing a friend in any different light when they confessed their submissive orientation to me.



that's pretty much awesome =p

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 6:40:20 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

.  Or, he says "My shirts are not folded correctly" after she has spent hours doing the laundry, and she, in tears, apologizes profusely, and immediately re-folds them.  

But in certain circumstances, seeing a female behave like that (whether she is into BDSM, or is just very vanilla) really ruffles my feathers,  as I feel that all the advances women have made have just been wiped out, and we're back in 1809 instead of 2009. 

Again, no offense is intended.  This is just my perception of certain situations. 



I wouldn't have much good to say about someone who just pointed out what was wrong myself. However if he got up and showed her how he liked them folded, taught her how to, watched her do it over until she had learned it - then I would think he was a good guy and she was lucky to have him. And I'm submissive.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 8:13:13 PM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I'm totally befuddled.  I'm a straight man.  Why would another man's Dom/sub orientation affect me or concern me?

I'd feel a pang for the poor guy because he'd be one of 10 million male subs fighting for seventy Dommes, but that's it.


You mean....I've got a chance?   :D   (does a happy dance)

yours




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May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 9:07:42 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

( I am not making an generalization here, however I have heard the following statement an awful lot in both online and real community activities and seen it demonstrated with more than a tad of hostility at dungeons.)
 
" Straight Male dominants have no use for male submissives"--so here is the scenario:
 
Its a new year, time for new beginnings, at your yearly party last night ( you being a Male Dominant)---your best friend, life long college roommate, football season ticket holder buddy confesses he has to make a radical change in his life--he has to be what he always wanted to be--submissive to a woman, he has someone he can finally express this side with and he is ready to embrace it. Your reaction is:
 
Feel differently? Look at him differently? Lump in your throat? Treat him differently?
 
Do you feel as the quote above states? If so why, if not why not?
 
 
 
<puts on Her flame retardent coat>
 
 
 


My view of him? Good luck to you mate and congratulations for having the courage to follow your convitions.. It takes strength to be a submissive or slave no matter what the gender. I respect sub/slaves for this.


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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 9:41:03 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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In my experience men don't talk to each other in this way and the scenario would never happen.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 10:40:09 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not a male Dominant BUT...my sub went through this. He was a Gorean Master and left that to become my submissive. He tried to keep his friendships going as he had known these people in RL for some years. His "friends and comrades" shunned him immediately after finding out he had embraced his true self, a submissive male who chose to kneel before a Dominant woman.

So as to your post, this is what I saw happen to a submissive male who revealed his true nature to his friends, it wasn't pretty but he did discover something. Just because someone says that they are your friend, does not necessarily make it so. You usually find out the truth when something like this happens.

~Lashra


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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 10:43:41 PM   
Lashra


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Joined: 2/9/2006
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quote:

Maybe I'm just not evolved enough for all that yet.


I would agree.

~Lashra


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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/2/2009 11:41:29 PM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
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quote:

Maybe it's that 'macho' foolishness kicking in? That a sub male is somehow seen as less of a man, and therefore threatens the ego and image of all men in general? *Nothing* could be further from the truth. It takes a strong and self-confident man to submit. "...No man stands taller in My eyes than when he drops to his knees for Me..."

This might be slightly off topic, but from the other side of the coin...... In a way, I can understand that opinion in a male Dom. As a female Domme, I admit that at times I have a rather unflattering opinion of female subs.



To LadyTeazer:  So you, then, suffer from something similar to macho foolishness, in viewing female submissives as "less than" female Dommes, even though you would denigrate a male Dom who believed a male submissive was less than a male Dom. 

I'm confused - in the examples you cited was it the fact that the female submissive immediately served her Dom when he wished, or fixed her mistake in how she folded his clothes that bothered you?  Or did you think she was setting back women's rights by serving at all? 


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 12:03:54 AM   
SlaveBlutarsky


Posts: 491
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

( I am not making an generalization here, however I have heard the following statement an awful lot in both online and real community activities and seen it demonstrated with more than a tad of hostility at dungeons.)
 
" Straight Male dominants have no use for male submissives"--so here is the scenario:
 
Its a new year, time for new beginnings, at your yearly party last night ( you being a Male Dominant)---your best friend, life long college roommate, football season ticket holder buddy confesses he has to make a radical change in his life--he has to be what he always wanted to be--submissive to a woman, he has someone he can finally express this side with and he is ready to embrace it. Your reaction is:
 
Feel differently? Look at him differently? Lump in your throat? Treat him differently?
 
Do you feel as the quote above states? If so why, if not why not?
 
 
 
<puts on Her flame retardent coat>
 
 
 


As a male submissive, I have no use for a male dominant so there.

I've read and heard about this type of through process as well, which is interesting to me. It's funny mostly. I'm the last person anyone would expect to be a sub type personality, I go by the mantra of 'Strong for all, weak for one.'

For the most part, I've always been the beer drinking, frat boy,  football season ticket holding jock, who interestingly enough, told his best friend of 20+ years (since 6th grade), about my deep dark secret last night.

I didn't go into specifics,  we basically played twenty questions about something  had said in the past when I broke up with an ex that was triggered in a conversation last night.

His response was 'whatever bro, just as long as you're not a homo.'

(he's always been a homophobe, which kind of makes me laugh)

In the end, I think it's one of those things that is individual in nature. I didn't have a whole lot of fear that it would affect our friendship, but I have friends who I know it really would and it will therefore never come up. It's sad knowing that, but unfortunately, such is life.


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RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 3:50:26 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		I'm still fairly new to the whole scene, but I have seen that often times there does some to be a backlash against male submissives, which is a shame. While I don't understand some of the things that male submissive's often like, such as cross dressing and cuckolding, I try to look at it from the parralells in my own submissive nature and then I can at least intellectually understand. The acts we enjoy may be different, but male or female, we often share the same reactions. That's enough for me to hold onto and accept, in my book.

I do think society has a much harder time accepting the male submissive, though, by and large, simply because of the extreme machoism that is out there. Because of that, I actually rather admire any man who can work past that and become comfortable with his submissive nature.




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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 4:38:28 AM   
Roguescharm


Posts: 82
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

This might be slightly off topic, but from the other side of the coin......    In a way, I can understand that opinion in a male Dom.   As a female Domme, I admit that at times I have a rather unflattering opinion of female subs.   Examples:  a Dom and female sub are sitting on the couch, watching TV.  He says "Go get me a beer/a glass of iced tea/a sandwich", or whatever.  And even before he has finished speaking, she jumps up and races off to the kitchen.  Or, he says "My shirts are not folded correctly" after she has spent hours doing the laundry, and she, in tears, apologizes profusely, and immediately re-folds them.   My gut reaction to a scenario like that is  "You dumb bunny.  You're not a stupid doormat.  Grow a backbone and act like you have a brain in your head."    I do not mean to offend the female subs out there.  This is just my opinion.  I know that you choose to be a sub, because that is what you enjoy.   But in certain circumstances, seeing a female behave like that (whether she is into BDSM, or is just very vanilla) really ruffles my feathers,  as I feel that all the advances women have made have just been wiped out, and we're back in 1809 instead of 2009. 
  


Sorry if I'm hijacking I just had to get this out. The above is almost exactly how I feel, and I feel all the worse for reacting this way because I identify as a sub. It's maddening. It doesn't matter how much I tell myself that it's their/our/my choice; I still feel like I'm somehow letting the side down. It sucks.

Sorry for the interjection, it just sort of struck me like lightning.

As for the OP, I haven't had enough IRL interaction to see it, but I do come across it online. I can't say the subject gets my interest much, but I do wonder about the Doms who put down male subs a lot. Sometimes seems like they're over-compensating...


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— Banksy

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 5:58:04 AM   
NextDoorMan


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		I wanted to relate an experience I had, not with a friend that I "came out to", but rather a Dom/sub (M/f) couple I met at a lifestyle party.
There was a demo in which I had little interest going on inside so I was enjoying the fresh air out on the deck when I met a couple that before this time I had not ever met; I was fairly new to the group, having been invited by a Domme I was with at the time.  I got involved in a conversation with this couple about different spanking implements, the advantages of a crop over a paddle, the advantages of a flogger vs. a single tail, etc.  They were a really nice couple and we were having a good time during this discussion/debate.  After a few minutes I gathered from the way they were talking that they assumed I was a Dom.  I was just about to try to figure a way to clear up the misunderstanding when she asked if my submissive was inside.  I smiled and told them that no, in fact my Domme was inside.  I was amazed at how quickly what had begun as a lively, interesting conversation ended in looks of unease, silence, and an awkward desire to get away, on their part.  The look on both their faces was one of "not a real man".  In less than two minutes they were gone, and never looked me in the eye the rest of the event.
I'm not generalizing, I know this isn't the perception of all male Doms, nor all female subs, but we have to admit that these perceptions do exist.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 6:01:46 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		That sucks, NextDoorMan! As the person who is, 99.9999% of the time getting hit with the toys, I think that I have a pretty good handle on how they feel and work, and in fact, with certain toys that my husband won't even let me stay in the same room with him with if it's in my hand, I'm even more knowledgeable about those toys.

If ya get smacked with something enough times, you're going to learn alot about it. Male or female, that doesn't change that fact! 

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 9:22:22 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

( I am not making an generalization here, however I have heard the following statement an awful lot in both online and real community activities and seen it demonstrated with more than a tad of hostility at dungeons.)
 
" Straight Male dominants have no use for male submissives"--so here is the scenario:
 
Its a new year, time for new beginnings, at your yearly party last night ( you being a Male Dominant)---your best friend, life long college roommate, football season ticket holder buddy confesses he has to make a radical change in his life--he has to be what he always wanted to be--submissive to a woman, he has someone he can finally express this side with and he is ready to embrace it. Your reaction is:
 
Feel differently? Look at him differently? Lump in your throat? Treat him differently?
 
Do you feel as the quote above states? If so why, if not why not?

At the risk of firing things up a bit here (*gasp*), I'm not even sure how I could have ended up with a "best friend" who was submissive all along  - but such is the limitations of hypotheticals, I s'pose....
 
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down male subs here (really, I'm NOT), rather I'm more an advocate of "birds of a feather flock together" and "water always finds its own true level" etc and there's no way my "best friend" could be submissive without me picking up on signs.  And since my dominant self doesn't relate to male subs anymore than my hetero self relates to gays, this fella would not have been my "best friend" to begin with.  But yeah, he could still be A friend or acquaintance and his "coming out" would likely be greeted with, "Yep, I thought so...." - and then I'd have him find me girls of the same persuasion....  *wink*
 
Just to add to my confusion, how does "life long college roommate" work - that we're just not cutting it academically, either?  lol

Focus.

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Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 9:40:13 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		~FR~

Very interesting discussion!  As female sub, I've only rarely come across a Dom/me who treats me as anything other than an intelligent equal.  The ones who can't see past the label to find the person, I can't be bothered with and will make that very plain.

However, I have only recently been involved in the local bdsm scene (about 8 months) and I will admit to being nervous about meeting male subs, and relating to them.  What an idiot I am...sheesh!  Oddly enough, they were normal men who were intelligent equals.  And I'm fortunate to count several male subs and slaves among some wonderful new friends.

But the funniest thing is, two of my closest new friends are Doms.  Both are smart and funny and do not colour their view of me and our friendship simply because of my orientation.

And another funny thing is, another good male CD friend told me he was no longer a mistress but a maid, and I was delighted for him!  He feels comfortable and happy now, and I share in his joy.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 9:40:34 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		Not an attack at you Focus, however...
 
I always find it funny when so many of you male Doms say " I would have known, I would never be with someone with submissive tendencies" and yet you miss that most male subs are dominant in their everyday lives---you think they are all such tittybabies---such a generalization----IMHO how in the world do you think you can tell?
 
As for college roommate, it was only part of the frame of reference as many men who are bf's--start or cement their life  long relationship when they are in college.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 9:46:35 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
 I'm not even sure how I could have ended up with a "best friend" who was submissive all along  - but such is the limitations of hypotheticals, I s'pose....
 
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down male subs here (really, I'm NOT), rather I'm more an advocate of "birds of a feather flock together" and "water always finds its own true level" etc and there's no way my "best friend" could be submissive without me picking up on signs.  And since my dominant self doesn't relate to male subs anymore than my hetero self relates to gays, this fella would not have been my "best friend" to begin with.  But yeah, he could still be A friend or acquaintance and his "coming out" would likely be greeted with, "Yep, I thought so...." - and then I'd have him find me girls of the same persuasion....  *wink*
 Focus.


So, you couldn't be friends with a submissive male...Why?  I'm not quite sure I understand your birds of a feather analogy.  Unless you think that submissive men are always submissive to everyone.  Which would explain that sweetheart of a saying that I bolded.  I mean yes, of course, if a man is submissive, he would just fall over himself to be your pimp.

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 1/3/2009 9:49:55 AM >

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"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/3/2009 9:59:28 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WiseCracknSadist

I would look at him different. The rules would change. He would go from what I believed to be another alpha to some beta belly showing submissive. That sounds harsh but that's the image I get when I think of my buddy telling me that. Plus I'd have to get permission to hangout with him... Maybe I'm just not evolved enough for all that yet.


It would be a very good thing it wasn't my submissive and I wasn't there.  You would get to see the gut reaction of a red head in action. lol  And that wouldn't be 'bitch'.  A calm and quick statment would let you know you were not a friend evolved or not and I do think I might ask what made you so wonderful.  Seeing dominance as I do, it is more a personality thing than gender based and looking at people as you do must mean you feel you are higher or better than they are.  Has nothing to do with macho.  Macho can be attractive... dysfunctional thinking on one's self is not macho... just wrong thinking.  Ever met a macho submissive?  Mmmmmmmmmm tasty!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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