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RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 1:18:37 PM

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Padriag you arrogant bugger! You've explained perfectly, what I've been trying to find words to get out.

:: with a grandious flourish doffs his cap and bows ::
Why thank you... merely living up to my reputation of course.

I'm also going to agree, brilliantly written and presented. Padriag is a man who has over the years I've been in CM had time and time again demonstrated his knowledge and practical psychological wisdom. Also, damn his hide

a far better philosopher then I...

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/7/2009 1:21:21 PM >

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Iron Bear

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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 1:19:10 PM

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quote:

you are behaving in a way that indicates the authority and power you possess and have earned

that is propably not how 99.99% of the world would see arrogance.
they would give you respect propably instead

edit:
added a 9

edit 2:

agree..people you know....you accept way more from. Good example.
(or..sometimes..the opposite..lol)

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 1/7/2009 1:20:56 PM >

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 1:19:47 PM

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Oh lord IB, now he is going to be even MORE arrogant!! He will have to get a bigger cap.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 1:22:42 PM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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So M'Lady, are you going to make him one perhaps?

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 1:26:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

So M'Lady, are you going to make him one perhaps?

If he begs nicely I might be able to whip something up!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 1:39:54 PM

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LOL... I don't beg. I do, however, appreciate the compliments. Reading back over my post, personally I think there are a few points that could have been refined more, or better stated... but I'm glad it got the point across so well. Human behavior is such a complex thing and that complexity is reflected in our language (ever stopped to wonder why we have so many different words for the same thing... for example, a quick search turned up the following synonyms for arrogance alone: aloof, assuming, audacious, autocratic, biggety, bossy, bragging, cavalier, cheeky, cocky, cold-shoulder, conceited, contemptuous, cool, disdainful, domineering, egotistic, haughty, high and mighty, high-handed, imperious, insolent, know-it-all, lordly, on an ego trip, overbearing, peremptory, pompous, presumptuous, pretentious, proud, puffed up, scornful, self-important, smarty, smug, sniffy, snippy, snooty, snotty, stuck up, supercilious, superior, swaggering, uppity, vain, wise guy... 47 total, five of which have a direct linguistic roots related to rulership or governance... which is no coincedence, several more relate to being possessed of superior traits or abilities, also no a coincedence.). That complexity is one of the reasons behaviorism has been such a life long fascination for me.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 6:40:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Arrogance when not mixed with nastiness is quite the turn on. But Knight, you cant have ALL the women so I must be moving along to other assholes.

I CAN'T!!!!! is there some rule about this that i missed!!!!! OH Hell with it... I am too arrogant to listen to rules anyway!!!!!

But... I do agree with others' comments..... Nastiness and Arrogance is two different things... that sometimes co-exist and well.. I do believe that the one spoils the taste of the other for many!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 8:34:19 PM

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Lynnxz: Love the phrase "collar popping amazing"! :>

SteveandJaz: Read the initial post you made, some of the page 1 replies. Generally, I don't care if someone calls themselves "King/Queen of the Universe" as long as they don't step on the toes of me and mine. If they do, then, they'd damn sight better be able to prove their claim or their title's probably going to be challenged. In a D/s sense, lots of people posture. We see it on the lists all of the time, as you noted. Generally, I think it's an over-compensation and they're insecure; afterall, if a person is confident in who and what they are, what is the need for the chest-puffing that some do? Some people respond favorably to that posturing, though...not me, but to each his or her own. And, some people like the attention, positive or negative, that they glean from their antics of proclaiming themselves something or decrying another for whatever they're proporting to be.
'Course, then, in a later post you flip-flopped from 'why are people so bloody superior" to something that seemed quite different: asking why people are so hard on posters. The initial post, while sometimes leaning in that direction, didn't really strike me as asking that but rather what I addressed above. Now, this part of things has sort of a similar answer, imo, though I'll elucidate it differently. I've seen people flamed when others get dogmatic (Which potentially loops back to the insecurity thing I noted earlier) or it touches a nerve on a personal situation (Emotional involvement and potential transferrence). Any of us who think we are offering unbiased opinions are deluding ourselves. We are colored by our experiences, our thoughts, etc. And, afterall, the boards are a great way to get lots of opinions: some we attribute value to, others not so much. And some posters, we can always count on for a particular party line and it's a bit of a touch-point and one of those assurances that all is well in the CM Universe when we see those folks posting, lol! :>
I don't know, I'm sleepy. Those are my current thoughts.
'night, all!
Davan

_____________________________

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-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

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RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 8:50:46 PM

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It's rather simple in my mind .. an arrogant bastard is not necessarily a prick. The arrogant bastard who can back it up can be a wonderful find indeed.

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RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 9:14:33 PM

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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
If you feel you need a spell out of action from time to time, I can let you have Sunday off.......though there's no use in trying to negotiate Friday (after a week at work I need to let off a bit of steam)......

Arrogance tempered with a little compassion and a dash of mercy. Gotta love it.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/7/2009 9:24:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

I'm not sure if I can do justice to the concept. But there are different "kinds" of arrogance in the broad spectrum of human behavior. There is a time and a place for arrogance, as with most things (just as there is a time for love and also a time for hate, a time to forgive and a time for anger). I think often the problem is not arrogance itself, but arrogance when it is not appropriate or to whom it is not appropriate. Earlier I offered a simple parable that I don't think was fully understood, so I'll try restating it in more literal terms.

Imagine if you will the owner of a corporation, a wealthy and powerful business owner who wields a great deal of influence. Now also imagine a guy who works for the same corporation... in the mail room. Picture the corporate owner, dressed in a nice business suit, neatly groomed... he enters a room filled with people. He shakes hands and greats business associates and employees alike... but there is a cool arrogance about him, a slight disdain... he's their superior and they treat him with a degree of deference that he expects... even insists on. Now imagine the mail room worker enters the same room, he's dress in blue jeans, a t shirt, his hair is a little out of place... he tries the same cool arrogance, the same disdain... but rather than being given that deference he's mocked and treated with annoyance. It isn't hard to imagine, we can easily see the business owner's cool arrogance and sense of superiority being accepted... but we can just as easily imagine the mail room worker being treated with annoyance and derision for the same behavior. Why? Because in our society we accord rights and privileges to some that we do not to others. In society, a business owner who has become wealthy and powerful is believed to be entitled to that deference. A mail room worker is a nobody, they have not achieved as much in life and so that arrogance seems very inappropriate.

The same applies here in these forums. I and some other dominants here get away with a degree of arrogance regularly and are even at times applauded for it... why? Because we are regulars who have frequently contributed to the forums, who have demonstrated knowledge and wisdom, who have provided something of value to this online community.... and for that, we are accorded special treatment that another dominant posting for the first time will not receive... they haven't earned it yet.

Yet even among this "elite" group of forum members... there is a limit, a line not to be crossed. There are times when we must reign in that arrogance and show humility, compassion, understanding, tolerance, and forgiveness. For those of us that do so, who know when and how to respond appropriately, we are accorded still more respect. What is more, when our arrogance... that unbridled self confidence that comes boiling out of us... is once again on display, it is transformed into something else... it becomes a noble quality.

That is in part because we can be compassionate, we can be humble. It is also because we can demonstrate that most humane of qualities... sparing someone shame... and that too is noble.

The lesson in all this is that the question of arrogance in dominants is not a simple matter. In one person it will be seen as inappropriate, while in another it can become a noble quality. The reasons why are varied, but often involve the perception of how much the person has achieved, what they have accomplished, whether they have earned a right to that arrogance. Their overall character and their ability to be more than just arrogant... and at the right times, also figures into this prominently. But most importantly, it is always a question of knowing when a behavior is appropriate and when it is not... and for those who master that, much is given.

First off I am editing this because I accidentally hit the wrong radio button and all that was there was the quote. (I wish I had a typist I could smack LOL) I like what and how you said it here, but I have read many of your postings, and though not all I have agreed to, all are valid and very well written.

That brings me to a point that why is it that some want a cookie cutter Dominant or submissive? What works for One may not for another and visa versa. I believe that I learn from others, but I take what works for Me and I leave the rest, I don't ignore it, for I may one day need or want that information or experience to draw upon.

I also know what you mean about a new person on the forums (points to self here), not getting the respect right away, but instead of whining about it I just keep plodding on, and some do and some don't. Que sara sara. I am not here please everyone or even anyone. If I am, then truth be told I am full of shit. As all who go ahead of Me and all those who will come behind Me, We all start from the first step. As long as I remain teachable, I will grow. Before I came to this post to reply, I had to go on to another one in general BDSM and apologize for something I put that was construed as a poke at One when it was actually a poke at another (which I will not apologize for having an opinion), but her quote was very pertinent to what I said. I learned I need to also point that out in what I post so that I can be a bit more concise. Again a learning experience for Me.

I thank all for posting what they have. Maybe one day I will get that third pair of handcuffs..... woooohooooo.

MrP

< Message edited by MisterP61 -- 1/7/2009 9:42:25 PM >

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 4:15:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Actually old chap, many arrogant people are not even aware of it

and if you were made aware of it would you celebrate it?

Self confidence is not the same as arrogant. In the line of work I do within the real estate world, I need to have lots of self confidence but if I were to show any sort of arrogance then I would be out of a job.
Arrogance is believing you are better than the person your being arrogant towards and is probably the worst form of snobbery.

Maria

< Message edited by SteveAndJaz -- 1/8/2009 4:16:28 AM >

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 4:58:45 AM

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveAndJaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Actually old chap, many arrogant people are not even aware of it

and if you were made aware of it would you celebrate it?

Self confidence is not the same as arrogant. In the line of work I do within the real estate world, I need to have lots of self confidence but if I were to show any sort of arrogance then I would be out of a job.
Arrogance is believing you are better than the person your being arrogant towards and is probably the worst form of snobbery.

Maria

Yes I would celebrate it.

No, I do not agree and I and others have already posted my reasons for this....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SteveAndJaz)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 4:58:55 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Arrogance is not elitism or superiority. It has more to do with pride that has no tangible basis. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it just means that a claim has been made that is unsubstantiated. This is why people enjoy arrogance and some even find it attractive. It's attractive because of the ego and claim that can be eventually 'proved' - not because it is inherently nasty.
From that, I wouldn't agree that arrogance is the issue as such, you are just being affected by rudeness or as colouredinone stated previously, just petty nastiness.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SteveAndJaz)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 5:50:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61

First off I am editing this because I accidentally hit the wrong radio button and all that was there was the quote. (I wish I had a typist I could smack LOL) I like what and how you said it here, but I have read many of your postings, and though not all I have agreed to, all are valid and very well written.

Thank you. I don't expect that anyone will agree with me all the time (if they did, then one of us isn't thinking). But its cool when people can disagree and still civilly discuss things.

quote:

That brings me to a point that why is it that some want a cookie cutter Dominant or submissive? What works for One may not for another and visa versa. I believe that I learn from others, but I take what works for Me and I leave the rest, I don't ignore it, for I may one day need or want that information or experience to draw upon.

To answer your question, because cookie cutter people would be easier to understand, easier to deal with... it would make things simpler. Many people prefer simple because it is easier, takes less effort, less of a challenge, less work, less time invested. I'm all for efficiency, but there are times when being economical costs you more in the end, and relationships are almost always one of those times.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to MisterP61)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 6:01:34 AM

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I don't know why Im letting this get to me

I think a combination of the flu and frustration.................. goes and hides my head under a pillow for a couple of hours!

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 6:06:11 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveAndJaz

I don't know why Im letting this get to me I think a combination of the flu and frustration.................. goes and hides my head under a pillow for a couple of hours!

Warm honey and lemon, and some chicken soup, two paracetamol and lots of rest. Oh and olbas for the blocked nose. It's not good here in the UK at the moment with all the colds and flu and the weather doesn't assist!
Heal swift.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SteveAndJaz)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 6:11:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Arrogance is not elitism or superiority. It has more to do with pride that has no tangible basis.

That's an interesting opinion. However, while probably true in some cases, it certainly isn't true in all cases.

quote:

It's not necessarily a bad thing, it just means that a claim has been made that is unsubstantiated.

Again, I can't really agree. Arrogance with nothing to back it up is IMNSHO a bad thing, it is out of place and inappropriate. But neither is arrogance always an unsubstantiated claim.

As I was saying previously, there are many forms of arrogance, it isn't as simple as saying its just this or that. The fact that there nearly 50 synonyms in the english language for arrogance gives us a clue as to the variety of circumstances this word may describe. A significant percentage of those synonyms directly relate to superiority, several more also deal with traits associated with nobility. Clearly arrogance is a trait associated with one's betters. But just as interestingly other synonyms relate to pettiness, false pride, and qualities perhaps best termed as ignoble. I find that an important point because it demonstrates that this single word in our language covers a gamut of traits that literally run from one polar opposite to the other; from those beneath us, to those above us.

So while I could agree that in the case of some individuals, their arrogance has no tangible basis... in the case of others, it very much does have a basis. Arrogance absolutely is about superiority and elitism. In the case of those who truly are superior, that arrogance is often the by-product of unbridled self-confidence which cannot always be contained. In the case of the envious, trying to prop up their pride in the absence of achievement, its a mask worn to hide their insecurity.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 6:18:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveAndJaz

I don't know why Im letting this get to me I think a combination of the flu and frustration.................. goes and hides my head under a pillow for a couple of hours!

Sounds like you answered your own question. Having the flu is just no fun (as I was recently reminded) and it tends to cause your patience to run a bit shorter. But it would seem this has also struck a nerve with you, something someone said somewhere really bothered you, and that not everyone is agreeing with you is just aggrivating that. If you don't mind a bit of advice... never go looking for sympathy for your point of view in these forums, it almost never ends well because not everyone will sympathize. Much better to sort things out and then raise it as a topic of discussion when you've nothing emotionally invested.

As for the flu, Theraflu during the day and Nyquil at night helped me, along with a lot of bed rest. Hope you get well soon.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SteveAndJaz)

RE: The Arrogance behind dominants - 1/8/2009 6:28:30 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I can see the reasoning behind your disagreeing - and to an extent I can agree. It is probably just semantics. If someone is displaying an arrogance because they think they are superior to another, it's more often than not a subjective thing - which is why it's unsubstantiated. Blergh - I am probably making no sense. I know what I am trying to say, but the words aren't coming out how I want them too.

Are there people who are more superior than another? Absolutely there is. I don't see it across the board for one person though. A person can be far superior over another in one realm, yet in another, the situation will be reversed. It all comes down to the equally unequal thing.

On this -

quote:

In the case of those who truly are superior, that arrogance is often the by-product of unbridled self-confidence which cannot always be contained. In the case of the envious, trying to prop up their pride in the absence of achievement, its a mask worn to hide their insecurity.

I couldn't agree more.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Padriag)

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