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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 8:19:17 AM

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While I was in a lot of agreement with your prior post of on this thread, Locket, this one I can't agree with.

Let's say, for discussion's sake, that you're at least partially right. Let's suppose whoever this is about is talking with multiple Dommes and setting up just that kind of arrangement. If that would be the case, so what? I highly doubt that anyone who's on these boards flirting with anyone who's an attention magnet doesn't realize that others are flirting with that person as well. With some of the public attention that a few of these boys get on these boards, I can only imagine what the private discussions are like on the other side. Coming from My perspective of being always the last person to figure these things out (you have to take My word on that because I'm literally the last person to have it sink through My head what's going on) I know there are people who "get it" a lot sooner than I do.

Now, where I do I see this whole situation going South? Exactly wherever it was that the bullshit started. See, had everything been kept on the up and up and the deception not come into play, this probably wouldn't have been an issue. As soon as somebody started feeling the need to hide their intentions, even coming up with some crap about there being some kind of trouble if 'found out' that's where the issue starts. When the game playing started, is the raising of the flag saying it should be ended.

As for V bringing the subject to the board, I say more power to her. If there's someone out there who's playing one against the other, they have every right to post on the thread just like everyone else, add their two cents, and be on their way. Most likely, that won't happen because then that person can't come back later and play the same game with someone else.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 1/7/2009 8:20:16 AM >

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 8:27:16 AM

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V

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 8:37:16 AM

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I cannot disagree with what you say LadyPact (added later to be clear. I agree with you)... but I also cannot say more than I have. So I cannot prove my point without saying things that would be wrong to say here. That isn't my place. My purpose was to try and say... wait... let's stop... people are being hurt here and there may be things we don't know.

While I do not know all... how could (I?) there is more.

I also want to bring up something that maybe some of us can think about. I am the first to jump on the troll bandwagon or the game playin player bandwagon... but... what responsibility do we as dominant's have here? A newer submissive comes in and we fall all over ourselves playing with them. Whether it is light hearted or serious... how is one to know? Even someone not new could be confused. Even someone used to getting attention... could find themselves over their head... with prior life experience and wounds or whatever... things could get confusing.

If a bunch of dominant's play with a submissive and he gets a bit lost in it... one sentence, question or whatever shouldn't be enough to crucify him. We all played a part in the situation. Maybe a sitting down and questioning him or a few people might help.. but surely before things are brought out and one slam dunked... we might consider that emotions are running high and there might be a need for some tempering and fact finding before someone named or not, is torn to bits.

I am all for exposing someone playing games... but I am not sure in this situation that a game is being played. More facts are needed even for me with a bit of inside information from a couple of months. Could I be falling for some lie... sure... maybe... but I really don't think so. I know respect when I see it and there was a lot of respect. This alone tells me there is more.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 1/7/2009 8:45:32 AM >

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 8:54:27 AM

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    I've always understood discretion for professional or practical reasons ( I need to exercise abit myself ) , as most people's places of employ would not likely look too kindly on their kinkster employees.

    And neighbors may not understand the screams coming from next door - and cause all kinds of unnecessary chaos .

    However - when it comes to personal interactions , I don't want to be concerned about what other woman may see us , or make an unexpected visit , or overhear a phone conversation .   If he's gonna be my sub in a relationship, he's gonna be MY sub - not someone else's boyfriend/husband/lover.

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 9:26:45 AM

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Oh, when you say there is more going on than what is being said here, I'm absolutely sure that there is. As I've said before, I'm rather clueless about what started the concept for the thread, and I'm rather certain that I won't know. While it's true that we all enjoy the message boards for discussion, there's no way that any post can ever tell the whole story of what inspired it, even if a person wanted to do so. If any of us put every thought, feeling, and circumstance into an original, we'd never have time for anything else, would we?

No. We can only go on the information provided and follow as others contribute their own thoughts and ideas. I think there are a significant number of us who write our replies based on our own experiences and influences. When we see a certain warning sign that may have shown up for ourselves in the past, we come from that perspecitve. We now have four pages of folks who have come in and given their thoughts on what issues arrise as soon as someone throws out that word "discretion." Those who have encountered the words when it's used to hide the fact that someone is married/involved or that there is something else less than above board going on.

This is exactly where My comments to the subject came from. The problem with the situation came as soon as someone in the picture decided there was something going on that needed to be hidden, for whatever reason. I say this on a lot of the subjects that cross these boards. It seems to Me that, when any of us feel there is a truth that we need to hide, it's because we know a problem is created if the truth is known. I'm not saying publicly crucify anyone for feeling that way. What I am saying is, where people started toward the path of getting hurt is when this started. I'm not even going to go so far as to say it was intentional or it wasn't. Again, not enough information to go on.

Now, you asked a good question in what responsibility do we have here when a new boy toy comes along and we pay him an overt amount of attention so that heads are swayed. Well, we probably do have some, but in those situations, I don't think there's anyone blind to see it when it's going on. All it takes to notice it is the flirting that we do with some who frequent here to realize how often it happens. Yet, that's kind of the point. I highly doubt that anyone who's participated in the public flirting on the boards believes that they are the only one doing the same type of flirting in private. I don't think any of us here are that naive.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 9:35:27 AM

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Fast Reply:

Every request for discretion that I've ever had meant TWO things:
1. The guy has a long-term permanent relationship (married, engaged, cohabiting) already, AND
2. Isn't getting his submissive or masochist needs met in that relationship.

That isn't enough to disqualify a gent all on its own, but it''s a big caution flag. If, in addition, he doesn't want to meet in public at all, whatever the reason or excuse, that's a stopper.

Now the situation you describe makes me wonder what he thinks a domina is…someone who plays a dominant role solely for his benefit, and is actually a helpless bimbo in real life???

Bah.

Lady Delilah Deb

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 10:15:51 AM

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Lockit and LadyPact, thanks much for your comments. Whilst I know you are describing a hypothetical situation, there *is* more to what I've posted than meets the eye. The problem is, I don't know what it is. I offered the person in question the option to sort out his troublesome friendships and then resume contact. He wasn't happy with that. In fact, all I was offering him was friendship, with the option to see where things went, so I was rather taken aback when he said that if others found out that he was meeting me, the meeting couldn't take place. I even told him that was fine, too; I have no problem with writing this off.

The gentleman in question knows that I was badly buggered around by someone last year and that anyone who got involved with me now, even casually, had to be the equivalent of Caesar's wife before I would let my guard down. Then along comes all this "discretion" business, and I'm thinking it means one thing, when he's telling me it really means something else. That's why I wanted to get other opinions on what the need for discretion means to other people. I absolutely do not think this person is married or has a girlfriend. I do, or at least did, think he's lining up a bunch of other women in the hopes that one of them will work out. I have no problem with that. I had no intention of proclaiming our meeting to all and sundry, but I'm not going to get involved with someone where I have to remember not to let something slip out inadvertently. After all that's gone on the past couple of days, I no longer know what to think.

He did mention that he had an interest in public humiliation, so recent events should at least have helped him sort out how he likes it. He has my telephone number, so, if he wants to use it to fill me in on exactly what all this drama is about, instead of telling me what a horrid person I am, he's welcome to. But, to paraphrase everyone's favourite 1950s sitcom, he's got some 'splainin' to do.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 10:25:19 AM

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LOL... Venatrix... I so know what you mean! I can only hope that however this situation really is and however things go... that things can be sorted out. We love you! It is so easy to become jaded or hurt and let me tell you, I have jumped to some conclusions a time or two and was wrong, but how do you balance it all when expereince and red flags cannot be denied?! Fool or wise or wounded? Guess which I am picking! lol

A couple have paid for what other's have done in my life. Not to a large degree but yes, there has been some attitude or less than patient a couple have had to deal with as I red flag and protect...

My best to you! I really mean that!

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 10:31:05 AM

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Why, Lockit, you old romantic, you. You do realise that we're going to have to revoke your membership in the United States Female Dominants Society? I believe being romantic violates Chapter XX, Article 12 of the by-laws.

Thanks for your kind words and well wishes.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 10:32:39 AM

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Damn... I knew I would somehow expose myself! Oh well... I still have my domme pin I bought! That ought to prove something! hehe

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 11:24:15 AM

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We now have four pages of folks who have come in and given their thoughts on what issues arrise as soon as someone throws out that word "discretion."

I think you're right, there, LP. That word "discretion" clearly leaps out to a lot of women, especially, as connoting lies and deceit, particularly regarding men who are players and, perhaps worst of all, have undisclosed husbands/partners.

For me, though, I'm have an entirely different thought now. It concerns a woman who's now a close friend, and was nearly killed by "indiscretions" that arose out of the (mainly womens') forum that I used to use. These indiscretions were mostly hers, but I was partly to blame. That particular word, "discreet" got used an awful lot thereafter . . .

In our (then) innocence, we all on that forum used to make friends with one another rapidly, move straight to email, then to first names and all other details. By that that stage, those who were the most sensitive and kind-seeming writers would hear the deepest sorts of emotional matters from others.

The long and short of it was that my friend - I'll call her "Taz" - and I started to flirt. After a period of quiet from her, I found that she'd tried to slash her wrists after a poison-pen email from someone who'd made her believe that I despised her. Some time later, she miscarried, as well.

The sender of that letter turned out to have been one of nicest and kindest of all. No-one had seen anything at all in her that looked "off". She'd done it out of jealousy, though I know I'd never flirted with her.

So I would be inclined to keep private matters private and be very careful about what I give away on a forum. I'd do the same with emails, most especially regarding passing information from one person onto another. I'd do that even if I thought someone was absolutely trustworthy. I'd only properly relax with someone after we'd shared hard, real-life information about each other. I'm sure nutters like that woman are rare, but just one of them can wreak havoc on a forum.

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 11:29:36 AM

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It just goes to show you, PforH: You need to stay away from the ones who seem nice. What you need is a real bitch; at least you'll know up front what you're getting. There are loads to choose from on CM. I'm sure you'll find someone suitable soon.

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 11:42:47 AM

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For starters, V, you're quite welcome. I don't think there are any of us who haven't been burned once or twice and that colors our thoughts on these things. Quite a few of us have the scars. Going back to the original question, it doesn't make us jaded. It makes us cautious. At the end of the day, Dominant or not, we're people inside. We get hurt just like everyone else when our emotions get toyed with.

Not to rub salt in what appears to be a wound, but I have to say one thing more about a particular flag that I see. It's from this. "....telling me what a horrid person I am..."

As much as I hate to say it when the whole situation is obviously troublesome to you, but this one bothers Me even more than the "discrete" flag. It's been My experience that anyone who can't treat you decently when the potential has possibly ended, might not be the type of person you want to be involved with at the start. If they can't treat you with the same type of courtesy, respect, and friendship that was there in the beginning, they prove themselves not to be who you thought they were in the first place.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 11:54:43 AM

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That would red flag me too LadyPact. I don't do well with passive aggressive and if it is something that repeats... no way.. no how do I go there again! I have been thinking a lot about the passive aggressive... what I might do that is seen as passive aggressive or how things can be done that presents this and how other's have been so with me. The motivation or the wound behind it if it is a consistant thing is not something I can deal with. Everyone can say something in anger and everyone can hear something said or projected in anger... but to see it happen a lot... I don't touch that with a ten foot pole. I will meet it head on if I must and be a total bitch in doing so if I have to... but I don't put up with it.

I have thought often about threads dealing with this as we can see it here on the boards. I know I have run into a few who are submissive who are angry deep inside from wounds and who I cannot see my way to even being friends with because they cannot see clearly past the wounds and defense. I started to wonder how big a problem this is. I can't say anything about how often it is in a dominant because I deal mostly with submissive's. If lashing out in pain and anger is a pattern... run... run fast, not in fear or for safety... but simply for sanity because a passive aggressive who is wounded and angry can ruin any good day you have going on!

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 11:56:37 AM

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LP, you make an excellent point there, and a large part of me wonders if the situation is worth putting any more time into. On the other hand, who of us hasn't lashed out and said really cruel things when we wanted to hurt the other person as much as we *perceive* he or she has hurt us? My forgiveness isn't unlimited, second chances happen only occasionally, and my caution is very much in place, but that doesn't mean that starting over is impossible.

As things stand now, he can talk to me or not, as he chooses. Depending on his attitude and what he has to say, I'll decide if there's any basis for developing a friendship. I really am at the point where I don't care one way or the other. It doesn't hurt to talk, but it has to be a real dialogue. On that note, I think I'm going to bow out of responding on this thread anymore (unless someone says something really amusing), but I very much appreciate everyone's input.

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/7/2009 9:14:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

second chances happen only occasionally, and my caution is very much in place, but that doesn't mean that starting over is impossible.

Depending on his attitude and what he has to say, I'll decide if there's any basis for developing a friendship. I really am at the point where I don't care one way or the other. It doesn't hurt to talk, but it has to be a real dialogue.

Based on the parts quoted above, I'd say that successfully starting over with him is highly unlikely.

If you "don't care one way or the other" and your "caution is very much in place", then you'd seem to me to be detatching yourself from the situation and beginning to put this relationship behind you.

I wish you well on your journey Venatrix. It sounds to me as though you're closing the door behind you on this part of it...

- pixel

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/8/2009 11:21:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

We now have four pages of folks who have come in and given their thoughts on what issues arrise as soon as someone throws out that word "discretion."

I think you're right, there, LP. That word "discretion" clearly leaps out to a lot of women, especially, as connoting lies and deceit, particularly regarding men who are players and, perhaps worst of all, have undisclosed husbands/partners.

I think a lot of that was chaff being thrown in general regarding the use of the word. Ventarix in her OP made it fairly clear that the man she was talking about was asking her to participate in a deception of women who were friends and potential partners, rather than any one partner to whom he already had a commitment.

The real question here is whether a man has a right to keep his status as a "player" a secret. I would say that no, he does not. Players demand "discretion" specifically to make it easier to use and discard people. That is absolutely the only reason that they need to maintain a web of lies.

quote:

For me, though, I'm have an entirely different thought now. It concerns a woman who's now a close friend, and was nearly killed by "indiscretions" that arose out of the (mainly womens') forum that I used to use.

I understand the story you're telling here, but dishonesty is really not a defense against the occasional psychotic lunatic in our midst. Also, people who are engaged in sexual relationships as adults really need to have more maturity than one finds in the halls of a junior high school. 13-year-old girls hang themselves over nasty emails from their "on-line" boyfriends and clique members; grown up women do not.

Perhaps in the future you should focus less on the "indiscretion" of being truthful and honest in your personal life, and focus more on the "indiscretion" of engaging in adult sexual behavior with women who are emotionally equivalent to 8th graders.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 1/8/2009 11:22:07 AM >

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/8/2009 12:00:57 PM

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The real question here is whether a man has a right to keep his status as a "player" a secret. I would say that no, he does not. Players demand "discretion" specifically to make it easier to use and discard people. That is absolutely the only reason that they need to maintain a web of lies.

Correct, a "player" doesn't deserve discretion. I can't see that anyone would fault that view - except, of course, the player himself (!)

I understand the story you're telling here, but dishonesty is really not a defense against the occasional psychotic lunatic in our midst. Also, people who are engaged in sexual relationships as adults really need to have more maturity than one finds in the halls of a junior high school. 13-year-old girls hang themselves over nasty emails from their "on-line" boyfriends and clique members; grown up women do not.

Perhaps in the future you should focus less on the "indiscretion" of being truthful and honest in your personal life, and focus more on the "indiscretion" of engaging in adult sexual behavior with women who are emotionally equivalent to 8th graders.

In the context of internet forums, Shakti, I've learned the hard way that confidentiality is a great deal more important. My friend, Taz, is no 8th-grade girl who's wet behind her ears. She's in her forties, with three children, and sharp as a laser. (I might add, not that it's relevant, that she and have never had a sexual relationship. As for the one who hurt her - I hadn't even flirted with her. In fact, I'd barely spoken to her.). Bluntly, my friend's maturity exceeds that of most of the people using this forum. No-one at all on that forum, now, takes an attitude that's any different to mine regarding the matter of confidentiality.

The devil of it is in the anonymity. As someone on that forum once pointed out, if you go into a pub, make lots of friends, find out lots of vulnerable things about people, and spread those details, you'll be thrown out. But if you're able to go back in completely disguised, with no-one knowing where you live - it's a different matter.

Well, no doubt the wrong-doer on that forum is a rare quantity. I get the impression no great trauma like this has happened here at CM, so far. Yet, given my experience - or more to the point, my friend Taz's - I have absolutely no intention of relaxing my guard regarding people I only know through forums or emails. This, in fact, is the standard advice given by moderators on forums, of course - I only regret that I didn't follow such advice scrupulously from the start.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/8/2009 12:03:32 PM >

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/8/2009 2:35:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Bluntly, my friend's maturity exceeds that of most of the people using this forum.

Given that I have yet to see anyone on this forum slit her wrists and miscarry a child while she still has another three to raise over nothing more than a nasty email? I'm afraid I'll have to bluntly disagree with your assessment.

quote:

No-one at all on that forum, now, takes an attitude that's any different to mine regarding the matter of confidentiality.

People on THIS forum are a little less impressed with teenage-style melodrama and a lot less interested in having our community made less open and honest as a result. Your prior stint as the mascot of the Drama Llama Club doesn't win any points for "discretion" which basically amounts to "lying".

Also, just as an aside--you have stated that you dislike the impersonal atmosphere of this forum and that you want to turn Ask a Mistress into an environment more like THAT forum since you arrived here. Given this charming little tale of betrayal and near-death, one may reasonably ask: exactly why was your previous forum a more desirable model for a discussion-based community? It sounds to me like a juvenile trainwreck where hysterical bints try to off themselves over emails...and I'm afraid I'll never see the benefit of any social dynamic that causes people to universally agree that Dishonesty Is The Best Policy.

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RE: "Discreet" Male Subs for Dominant Women - 1/8/2009 5:19:08 PM

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Shakti,

Perhaps few can relate to this, my experience. Perhaps in the vast majority of cases, including this one, it seems irrelevant. Nonetheless, I still wouldn't change my policy. Confidentiality is too important to me now - maybe overly important; but, then, I'm not willing to take the chance. Certain things I just don't want on my conscience.

Given that I have yet to see anyone on this forum slit her wrists and miscarry a child while she still has another three to raise over nothing more than a nasty email? I'm afraid I'll have to bluntly disagree with your assessment.

You're welcome to disagree. However, you don't know the entire story and I'm not going to tell it. I know the woman, her psychological make-up, her physical make-up, and the rest of her family, very well now. In her position, I might well have gone the same way.

People on THIS forum are a little less impressed with teenage-style melodrama and a lot less interested in having our community made less open and honest as a result.

That's for everyone to make up their mind on, as he or she sees fit. I think that honesty and truthfulness are important. So, to me, though, is confidentiality; much more so than a few years ago. The actions of the woman I'm talking about on that former forum broke it up: very few, at first, could accept that she was anything other than the nice, kind, woman she'd always appeared. Many people who were once old friends then became enemies, then eventually left it. It never properly recovered.

She was just a jealous woman, out to get some revenge on two people. It started after a forum meet – some twenty of us meeting, one of whom flew in from the USA. It was that forum meet that precipitated her campaign (an email under one name, followed by various stints on the forum under new nicknames). Specifically, we concluded, my friend Taz staying at my place, this being announced on the forum, and that woman seeing it written there.

Also, just as an aside--you have stated that you dislike the impersonal atmosphere of this forum and that you want to turn Ask a Mistress into an environment more like THAT forum since you arrived here.

Yes, I did state that this forum seemed impersonal. I later retracted that after someone came on with a problem and was given tremendous help by a few people here.

Given this charming little tale of betrayal and near-death, one may reasonably ask: exactly why was your previous forum a more desirable model for a discussion-based community?

It wasn’t a more desirable model, overall, which is why I post here now and not there. It was friendlier in tone, but was open to the discussion of all subjects. Having been pretty much destroyed by the actions of that one person, even that friendly tone has now gone.

It sounds to me like a juvenile trainwreck where hysterical bints try to off themselves over emails...

No, it was a forum ruined by too many of us being too trusting and one, juvenile, hysterically-jealous, person.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/8/2009 5:27:27 PM >

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