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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 4:16:14 PM   
Anastasia25


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/28/2009
Status: offline 		And doing X,Y Z is not the same as doing X for Y or Y for Z...

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 4:44:37 PM   
sravaka


Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think of subservient as having anything to do with force.  I think of it as connoting 1) being subordinate, in some way "less than" and/or 2) a borderline obsequious attitude.

Submissive I think of as being more about volitional behavior.  (consider it in relation to the verb "submit," or the act of submission.  You can't subserve.)

Someone here has a sig about dominance and submissiveness being interdependent-- different roles, both equally necessary, or something like that.  I think subservience speaks to a greater inequality, and doesn't need an outside stimulus-- it can be assumed by the subservient party irrespective of whether there is a dominant force around.

Or something like that.




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Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 4:49:28 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25
There is a vast difference in submissive and subservient. Anyone care to elaborate?


I don't see a difference between the two, so nothing for me to elaborate on.

quote:

I speak to those who say they are shy and introverted around their Dom. Doesn't that qualify as being subservient?
 

And yet, shyness and introverted are two different things.  Sometimes they co-exist and other times they do not.  I don't see either as qualifications for being subservient.  Personally, someone would have to be obedient in order to qualify as subservient. 

quote:

And...does anyone care to elaborate on how their submissiveness builds confidence.


Being submissive does not build confidence for me.  Being true to myself is what has enhanced the confidence that I already have.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 4:56:15 PM   
oceanwynds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25

And doing X,Y Z is not the same as doing X for Y or Y for Z...


If it is expected I just do it. I do not do X for Y or Y for Z. I do not look at life in that narrow of a view. Sir is pleased that I do X or Y, so I do it, not in fear of not, it just within me to do. I do not sit and think of rewards either. I do not know how else to explain this. If i have to chop wood, I chop it. If i have to carry water I carry it. It does not mean anything beyond that.

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 6:49:40 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		People who are shy and introverted are shy and introverted which does not mean that they belive themselves to be inferior or that their dominant believes they are inferior. And subservient means inferior.

Some people have crippling shyness and are overwhelmingly introverted. For someone who is extremely introverted, and has some social phobia, then working all day and dealing with people is a tremendous drain of energy. They need to not have to talk in order to recharge. So what you see as them being shy with their dominant might be instead them in their comfort zone, not having to interact except to obey orders. If so, they aren't being treated as inferior but as someone valuable who is being given exactly what she most needs; quiet and alone time.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 2/2/2009 6:52:21 PM >

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 6:52:22 PM   
T1981


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

So what you see as them being shy with their dominant might be instead them in their comfort zone, not having to interact except to obey orders. If so, they aren't being treated as inferior but as someone valuable who is being given exactly what she most needs; quiet and alone time.


I'm an extrovert, so I've never quite heard it put that way before. Thank you, I feel like I now understand that side of introverts a bit better now!


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"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 6:52:34 PM   
Anastasia25


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/28/2009
Status: offline 		Well said. I like people's interpretations of my seemingly ambiguous questions...to some people that is.

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 6:54:11 PM   
Anastasia25


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/28/2009
Status: offline 		Somehow i always imagined that someone really outspoken would prefer to be the one giving the orders. I may be wrong. I just can't imagine someone who is shy to be a powerful dom.

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/2/2009 6:56:09 PM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		I've actually heard that in many circles, it is often the Type A personality, hard driving executive CEO that manages hundreds of people in his/her company that is often most attracted to the submissive role, at least in play. It provides a completly different experience, one in which all he/she has to do is what they are told. A relief, a break from the pressures and demands and stress.

I imagine the same could be said for shy or quiet dominants.

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"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/3/2009 7:28:42 PM   
RealSub58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25

nothing wrong with excessively submissive...that qualifies as slave and is an honorable title to be earned...


I dont agree.Excessively submissive doesn't qualify as the honorable earned title of "slave."Titles are not good for much unless given.I am not my dominants slave, nor anyone else's, yet I can be excessively  (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/excessive) submissive and a doormat. What/who qualifies to be called a slave?  Well that depends on you and your D type. 

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/3/2009 7:50:42 PM   
RealSub58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

People who are shy and introverted are shy and introverted which does not mean that they belive themselves to be inferior or that their dominant believes they are inferior. And subservient ** means inferior.  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/subservient
Subservient does not mean inferior.  Were a few words skipped??

Some people have crippling shyness and are overwhelmingly introverted. For someone who is extremely introverted, and has some social phobia, then working all day and dealing with people is a tremendous drain of energy. They need to not have to talk in order to recharge. So what you see as them being shy with their dominant might be instead them in their comfort zone, not having to interact except to obey orders. If so, they aren't being treated as inferior but as someone valuable who is being given exactly what she most needs; quiet and alone time.


Very well stated.This is much of who I am with loner thrown in.  Many times I am not shy or introverted when I get a keyboard or pencil in hand cause I can use those instruments when I would not dare use my mouth in public as it would be, like you say, emotionally draining.  I cannot even be in a family gathering when I know discord and conflict might arise.  My Sir finds me shy but engaging.My Sir is quite extroverted but very much a loner. Groups annoy us. So I think the OP needs to go back to some drawing board.Explaining or attempting to explain each creature who walks upright might be a daunting task.

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/3/2009 8:51:37 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		subservient
A adjective
1 slavish, subservient, submissive
abjectly submissive; characteristic of a slave or servant; "slavish devotion to her job ruled her life"; "a slavish yes-man to the party bosses"- S.H.Adams; "she has become submissive and subservient"
2 subservient
compliant and obedient to authority; "editors and journalists who express opinions in print that are opposed to the interests of the rich are dismissed and replaced by subservient ones"-G. B. Shaw

To me, subservient is what most people seem to mean when they talk about "true submissive".

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/3/2009 9:00:24 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25

I speak to those who say they are shy and introverted around their Dom. Doesn't that qualify as being subservient?


No. It means they are shy and introverted around their dom. Subservient, to me, just sounds like another term for submissive. The definations you've presented in the thread don't speak to me. As his submissive, I do things because they please him but if it didn't please me to please him I wouldn't do them. The submissive your example of being subservient is still pleased by pleasing their owner so, by my reckoning, if they weren't, they wouldn't do it.

I do also believe someone can be excessively submissive. I will not get into what I feel is excessively submissive as it tends to twist panties and I'm not in the mood for it.
quote:


And...does anyone care to elaborate on how their submissiveness builds confidence.


My submissiveness does not build my confidence. Being open about my submissiveness and not having to hide parts of myself builds confidence. I'm not ashamed of who I am and I don't have to bow my head to any ol' person simply because I am most fulfilled serving the man I love.


quote:


Somehow i always imagined that someone really outspoken would prefer to be the one giving the orders. I may be wrong. I just can't imagine someone who is shy to be a powerful dom.


I would advise opening up your mind. While a quiet dom may not appeal to you, you may find that above silent lips, wicked thoughts burn behind evil eyes... *looks over at picture of Val affectionately*

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/5/2009 10:40:45 PM   
bound4more


Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25

There is a vast difference in submissive and subservient. Anyone care to elaborate?

I speak to those who say they are shy and introverted around their Dom. Doesn't that qualify as being subservient?

And...does anyone care to elaborate on how their submissiveness builds confidence.



Seems to me they mean the same thing. I'm like others here, don't care for labels. However, submissive or subservient does not mean without choice. I choose who I submit to and when. My submissiveness is part of me, yet it's not ALL of me. So it neither builds nor reduces my confidence. My confidence is the result of witnessing the results of my choices, decisions and behaviors whether they be considered submissive or not.

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You can tell who someone really is by how they act

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/6/2009 10:48:50 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Subservience is excessively self serving.  You have to be a sycophant to be and want to be subservient.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/6/2009 11:58:37 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Subservience is excessively self serving.  You have to be a sycophant to be and want to be subservient.
 
the.dark.


Woah. The word sycophant implies a hypocritical view of serving; it conjures images of a subordinate ready to change loyalties at the drop of a hat, rats deserting a sinking ship. Subservience does not mean sycophantic, although a subservient person could be a sycophant.

Sorry, I don't know what the hell happened to the font size.

< Message edited by hardbodysub -- 2/6/2009 11:59:58 AM >

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/6/2009 12:17:49 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Why w*ould it be yanked, I don't see anything wrong with it so far, course I have not read the whole thing either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981

Perhaps the topic can be salvaged.....though EDIT: I'm wondering if this thread will get yanked, too...hmm.....


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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/6/2009 12:24:32 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I think you paint all submissives with a one idea fits all brush, and that's not true. Not all submissives are doing things for a reaction.

I do things for Daddy sometimes, out of sheer desire to do so, and if he doesn't notice it sure wouldn't debase or decrease my self confidence, one bit.

And if I was to wash the floors, to use your example, I certainly wouldn't be thinking what you claim submissives would the whole time, I'd be focusing on my job at hand, and thinking is this clean, does this need another wiping, How do I get that gunk over there off the floor.

And I don't do it for the reason that if I Do A I'll get B. I do it because I wanted to do something special for Daddy, just for the hell of it, no reward nessisary.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25

How does submissiveness build confidence?
Lets see...
You are washing the floors, thinking..."will he notice? does he like it? omg, he doesn't notice...he doesn't care about me...I'm doomed etc. etc." = The submissive is focused on self and on gratification, where if I do A, I will get B.
so if the Master does not notice, the submissive's confidence in self will decrease. You can call that subservient.
Or

The other scenario would be, the submissive is washing the floors thinking, "Master will have a clean house and he will not have to wash the floors himself, so he has more time to relax." In the latter scenario, you are not focused on your own gratification, so you are not disappointed if he does not notice your work. And if he does, that will add to the confidence you already have.

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/6/2009 12:27:06 PM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anastasia25

Somehow i always imagined that someone really outspoken would prefer to be the one giving the orders. I may be wrong. I just can't imagine someone who is shy to be a powerful dom.


To me, shy and introverted are two entirely different things. I am rather introverted, but I am farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr from being shy. I just do not see the need to run about being obnoxious and in people's faces. Besides, I am not that fond of most people anyway.

I think I have met more insecure and outspoken people than confidently dominant, outspoken people. The one's running off their mouths are usually over compensating for their insecurities.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: submissive or subservient - 2/6/2009 4:34:41 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:



Woah. The word sycophant implies a hypocritical view of serving; it conjures images of a subordinate ready to change loyalties at the drop of a hat, rats deserting a sinking ship. Subservience does not mean sycophantic, although a subservient person could be a sycophant.

Sorry, I don't know what the hell happened to the font size.
 
 
I did not say that sychophant = subservient.  I said that to be subservient you do have to be sychophantic.  Not the same thing.
Subservience is an exagerated form of submission with a self serving result.  Doesn't make sycophants a bad thing in the slightest.  It also means to be a serving in an inferior capacity.  Outside of BDSM, that would mean as a maid or butler etc... Subservient doesn't equal submission.  It does however equal service, which again, doesn't equal submissiveness.  I can't assist you if you feel it's a bad thing, that is each persons subjective feelings on the matter.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 2/6/2009 4:37:36 PM >

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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