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2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 8:56:56 AM

WiseCracknSadist

Posts: 163
Joined: 10/27/2006
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There is another thread discussing public kneeling as a punishment, possibly nude, and what an outrage it was.

I understand why the nudity would be unacceptable, but excluding that I was left with two questions.

If you are comfortable in yourself, with your partner, and in the type of relationship you are in, why would you be ashamed to show it in public.

Also, how is kneeling any different or more uncomfortable than watching others make out in public? Atleast kneeling shows both love and respect. Making out show lust and passion.

Post #: 1

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 9:26:13 AM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

If you are comfortable in yourself, with your partner, and in the type of relationship you are in, why would you be ashamed to show it in public.

Shame has nothing to do with it.
I enjoy a lusty, rowdy, screaming with joy sexual relationship with 2 men. That doesn’t mean I would fuck them on the counter at a fast food restaurant at noon!

quote:

Also, how is kneeling any different or more uncomfortable than watching others make out in public? Atleast kneeling shows both love and respect. Making out show lust and passion.

Your logic is a little fuzzy here. Why can’t kissing mean love and respect? Why do you assume a person kneeling attaches only those two meanings to the act?

< Message edited by catize -- 2/21/2009 9:28:34 AM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
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(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 2

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 9:28:13 AM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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I don't get the protest at all I know MANY women who get off on Humiliation and on Public Nudity. I have known girls who have been arrested for public nuduty and fantasize about it happeneing again.

I agree with your idea that if someone is okay with what and why they are then this act wouldn't matter. However from the outcry that you heard about how wrong it is, is why many who want to don't. When even those who are a part of this lifestyle chastise a concept such as this how would anyone feel comfortable? There are still those who do not care and when I see the little signs in public or the Bold ones I smile and say Good for them.

Steel

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Post #: 3

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 9:35:59 AM

MsDDom

Posts: 368
Joined: 1/1/2009
From: GA
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i believe that there r some people who are just not into any forms of public. from holding hands (very vanilla) to wearing a collar symbol (small ring, necklace, etc). there r extremes (nudity, sex, etc) and there are milder forms. the stigma i've seen is that public is taboo...so no matter the lifestyle, i think many people will STILL have problems with forms of public.

i am very flexible on either, but enjoy the rush of public w/ sub/slave boys

< Message edited by MsDDom -- 2/21/2009 9:37:25 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 9:37:16 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
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It's really going to depend on the activity and on the type of people around. In your face bdsm public displays in a lot of cases are going to get you in trouble, which can be removed and banned from the place you did it, police intervention and more just as public sex can. I would hope those who want to or plan to do it would take the time to think and weigh the possible consequenses of their actions before doing so, especially the where they want to do it and just how much or how far they want to go in front of how many and what types of people.

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 5

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 9:44:51 AM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
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OK, I will have to put in my 2 cents worth (probably not even worth that).
First: there are ways to act in public. I don't think you should sit down in a restaurant and thrust your tongues down each others throat. But a kiss between two lovers, regardless of sex, when they meet is alright. The same with holding hands or walking arm in arm. If I have trouble explaining that to my children, I don't know what world I live in. If a woman wants to wear a collar and walk behind her man (or vice versa or two of the same sex, the same), doing so with respect is fine to me. Nakedness or humiliating another person in public ... wrong. Overt sexual acts in public ... wrong. If you want to get off on shocking people ... it's probably wrong. If you want to use the public to humiliate someone .. that is most likely wrong.
We live in an age where people need to accept alternative relationships. Someone in another thread said they didn't care what Joe Redneck thinks, neither do I. But, in society, we need to learn manners and co-existence. If you don't, you are as bad as Joe Redneck.

_____________________________

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 6

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 9:53:51 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiseCracknSadist

If you are comfortable in yourself, with your partner, and in the type of relationship you are in, why would you be ashamed to show it in public.

I am very comfortable showing my love, affection and respect for my Sir in public - we hold hands, kiss and behave like giddy school kids. As in vanilla relationships, we keep more intimate aspects of our relationship at home or at play partys with people who are familiar with the bdsm dynamic.

I don't have a problem with kneeling in public- if that is what your dynamic calls for, go for it. Nudity - against the law in most places. Sorry - for the most part (speed limits - mainly) i am a law abiding citizen - therefore i won't go naked in public. If i had a dom insist on that aspect, i would have to respectfully decline and take the consequences.

I don't want to see heavy petting in public, i don't want to see ANYONE indulging themselves in overtly sexual behaviour. Call me a prude, it isn't appropriate for public - and this issue also has been debated on cm.

and just as a thought - kneeling doesn't denote respect and love - it denotes someone kneeling. If in your dynamic it denotes respect and love, great - but that may not be what other people see when they see someone kneeling. They may see forced subservience and a complete lack of respect of the kneeling one. Just because you see it one way doesn't mean that everyone sees it the same way.

(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 7

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 10:00:58 AM

InTonguesslave

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiseCracknSadist

If you are comfortable in yourself, with your partner, and in the type of relationship you are in, why would you be ashamed to show it in public.

in the context of that other thread it was for punishment purposes and therefore innappropriate to pull in the public to shame his slave.

Also, how is kneeling any different or more uncomfortable than watching others make out in public? Atleast kneeling shows both love and respect. Making out show lust and passion.

its a show of love and respect for us, but the general public are unlikely to parrallel it with making out and actually its much deeper than that and would be percieved as such. that said i would happily sit at Sirs feet in a public park i will wear his collar (when and if i ever earn it). but to be punished publicly in a place where people go shopping is wrong on so many levels. not so much for the sub involved but for the people who will feel discomfort witnessing it.

i have a question for you:

what gives anyone the right to manipulate complete strangers into feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed, just because you feel the need to make a point.

(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 8

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 10:33:53 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

I don't get the protest at all I know MANY women who get off on Humiliation and on Public Nudity. I have known girls who have been arrested for public nuduty and fantasize about it happeneing again. <snipped>. When even those who are a part of this lifestyle chastise a concept such as this how would anyone feel comfortable? There are still those who do not care

I think the fact that they don’t care is what bothers me.
Flouting societal conventions at times is necessary to create change. But in this case, I don’t see their motivation to be for the larger good, rather it is a form of gratification that is not just ill-mannered but selfish as well.

quote:

But, in society, we need to learn manners and co-existence.

To get off at the expense of the public’s comfort level (I’m with MidMitch here) is simply wrong.

< Message edited by catize -- 2/21/2009 10:44:34 AM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 9

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 12:10:41 PM

leakylee

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Joined: 7/2/2004
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doesnt alot of it have to do with setting? i mean i have no modesty, but that doesnt mean i am going to run the mall naked. it does mean i am perfectly comfy running about the dungeon natural.

why force others to an exihibition? unless there is some form of consent implied or otherwise, then you risk choking others with your preferences.

lee

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Post #: 10

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 12:32:20 PM

pinkwind

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
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To me it has nothing to do with comfort, but everything to do with non-consensual inclusion in our kink.

quote:

InTonguesslave:

the gist was that because a Master felt that his slave tended to forget her place in public he had threatened to take her to a supermarket/mall and have her either kneel at his feet or lie face down on the floor

Embroiling the general public in what is basically a punishment session in a supermarket or mall environment is not something i would ever be a party to. i doubt it would be conducted discreetly, considering the fact that it is meant to re-enforce place in public.

Not acceptable to me, both as a slave, and as a parent, to use the innocently ignorant and possibly the unwilling in someone's kink.

But then it's just one opinion!

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(in reply to WiseCracknSadist)

Post #: 11

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 12:44:32 PM

DavanKael

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I think that something somewhere in the middle is likely a course worth exploring.
Davan

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(in reply to pinkwind)

Post #: 12

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 12:58:50 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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Little signs are completely different than in your face overly done displays. I'm not a prude, not by far, in fact sometimes I may be a bit to open minded for societies tastes, but I fully agree in not waving your business in the face of the public,m in flashy show offey displays of what you do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

When even those who are a part of this lifestyle chastise a concept such as this how would anyone feel comfortable? There are still those who do not care and when I see the little signs in public or the Bold ones I smile and say Good for them.

Steel

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 13

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 2:14:04 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

I can understand if you are ordering your "Slut" to the floor, beating her with a Crop and then making her go from table to table appologising for being a "worthless Whore" would be in your face. But sitting at my Feet in a Cafe while I drink my Coffee, or her wearing her collar when we go out or her saying "yes sir" when a question is asked of her, or her going to refil my drink at the buffet, or me feeding her cheesecake after a meal, or me ordering for her at a restraunt, or me hushing her when I am having an important conversation, these I do not see as non-consentual inclusion to our kink. I see it as the way we live our lives and being natural for us, and mind you I live in St George Utah.

I find things I am required to witness in public by what we would call Vanilla folk to be rediculas. Husbands yelling at thier wives in Wal-Mart cause they can't find the Tobasco Candle Set, or Mothers letting thier children call them "Bitch" or scream "Now Now Now Now I want it NOW!!!!" I find this to be far more off putting that the things that I mentioned.

And so that you know most of the time the Vanilla world Ignores us, Has no idea of what we are and what we are about. It's the people who are closer to you that make the snide comments, that start the rabble and the gossip. It is the people who think you are strange because of the control base you live by. It is the fact that your submissive needs to ask you first before they go and do something these are the situations that cause issues.

Andi worked for a cell phone company and never mentioned anything about what we did. The only time they ever met me was when I went to pick her up after work. She always worried about making me wait so at the end of the day she would hurry to get everything tidy so that when came up she could just leave, her co workers thought this was odd and would often tell her to relax "He can Wait" to which she would reply "He doesn't like to wait and I don't want to make him" it was this conversation that started the question of weather or not I was abusive or not, later she was asked to go out to a party after work which she had not cleared with me and they asked "Just go and have a good time and tell him what happened when you get home." to which andi said "No, I always let him know where I am going because I don't want him to worry" Later she was asked by her boss if she wanted information on Abusive Relationships. She got upset that her boss would even ask her that and found out that it was andi's dedication to being a good girl and being responsible to me for her actions that the office thought I was beating the shit out of her, I was no longer allowed to come upstairs and get her I had to wait outside.

See it isn't the BIG things, it's the small ones that people latch onto. When I was younger I had a Goth slave who likes to be walked down the Strip in Las Vegas by a Collar, people looked and people laughted and stared and pointed but never once was anything said to us about how what we were doing was wrong or sick and twisted.

I think we project our own fears onto the general public and because we personally think there might be something wrong with what we do we assume everyone else does. Once you come to terms with that the fact that what we do is natural and find you stip caring what the rest of the world thinks. I will be who I am, as long as I break no law I have nothing to fear. Sure I am a long way from having andi walk down main street in nothing but an Anal Plug and a Smile, but that is mostly because I have no desire to do so..... we are Home Bodies.

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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Post #: 14

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 2:42:09 PM

InTonguesslave

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline

yes, but... smile...,

all of the things that you describe you do within the parameters of a strong relationship that anyone with two eyes can see is fine, people learn to accept.

personally i equate some pig screaming at his wife in wal-mart and making people uncomfortable with having a slave kneeling or lying flat on her face in wal-mart in an attitude of abject misery just as uncomfortable. its a display of private issue made public.

i really do have a problem understanding how 'we' might be allowed to subject the public to discomfort and expect people to accept it and move on whilst we condemn pigs who scream at their wives.

its the very fact that people are concerned by abuse that we need to step carefully. if someone sees a slave led by a leash, smiling and happy, yes theyll point and maybe laugh, but thats ok - noone is being traumatised. when a slave is humiliated and cowed in a supermarket, crushed by her punishment and ashamed, it gives out a completely different message that people will feel troubled by and there is little to separate the public humiliation the pig exerts and the public humiliation the slaves Master is exerting - bottom line, its uncomfortable for people to witness so why should they have to, they dont.

the fact that you and Andi and many other Ms couples live according to their chosen prefferances happily and openly is fine, totally absolutely, i hope one day to be the same with Sir. i agree that exposure to our lifestyle can only, eventually, bring (possibly tacit) acceptance and that we shouldnt feel the need to hide behind closed doors - but surely it should be positive exposure, not negative acts that can only ever create negative impressions.

you know this isnt even about being proud and out. its about applying some of the basic respect we espouse and extending it.

< Message edited by InTonguesslave -- 2/21/2009 2:50:40 PM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 15

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 2:55:16 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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I have not read all the responses, but have my basic reaction to this. I personally don't want to see a couple making out either. Hey, there is that kinky part of me that wants to stay and watch, but in all reality I would rather they go somewhere that will allow them the most freedom to do things right.

I have knelt and put my head in my husband's lap at a restaurant on occassion because I did not feel well. No one seemed to really care. I did not do it in a lifestyle manner or as punishment for anything. It was just more comfortable and comforting than sitting up in my seat. I don't make a habit of this, but in these cases it was absolutely necessary until we could get out of there and get me more at ease at home or even at an emergency room.

I am a very private person who happens to find affection in public cute. Punishment in public, well, I even take my children to a restroom or my vehicle if something needs tending to in that manner. I do not need the whole world to see. I realize that was the point of the other post was for everyone to see as humiliation, but it is not my way. Frankly, it likely would feed the submissive's desire for humiliation thus nullifying the punishing intent.

On the whole, keep it private and turn up the heat even more. I don't mind a good show in public, however. I am more accepting of it in a public forum that is meant for such like a dungeon or other sex club. It is just my opinion.

lovingpet

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 16

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 2:55:34 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

And so that you know most of the time the Vanilla world Ignores us, Has no idea of what we are and what we are about.

This I agree with. Most people are pretty wrapped up in their own thoughts and actions and seldom pay attention to what is going on around them. So I have no issue with subtle stuff when out in public.

quote:

I find things I am required to witness in public by what we would call Vanilla folk to be rediculas.

And sure, there are non-kinky folk whose public behavior is distasteful; everything from poor table manners to outright abuse. Since I don’t like how I feel when I am offended, I would spare those around me from the same.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 17

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 2:59:58 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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However from my example you can clearly see that people read what they want into things anyway so I don't curb my behavior, I just have no desire to punish andi at all in any way that would be questionable in any sense.

Andi's worst punishment is sleeping on the floor for a day or two, because not sleeping next to me bothers her. it is hard to punish her this way in public as we sleep nude and Wal-Mart has an issue with you using thier bedding section in such a way.

I get your point and I agree that Outright displays like that are wrong, but it isn't a Kink Vs Vanilla kinda thing it is just a THING. it happens in ALL relationships. Just like you have the couple that is WAY too heavy with the PDA you get Dom's who are WAY to happy with the Spanking in Public. It is a Relationship thing but just because something makes me uncomfortable doesn't mean you should be made to stop doing it. See it is MY discomfort and there for MY issue. There are Moral Decisions that change this like calling the police when the neighbors fight last too long and need to be cooled down, or when you see something that hits to the core of your moral values. Now someone elses moral values might be offended by the very nature of what I choose to do. If I am to maintain integrity I just have to ask myself if what I am doing is appropriate or not. The things that I listed I feel are appropriate, just as andi though being responsible to me was appropriate eventually it caused and issue, we rolled with it and moved on.

Not everything is black and white, but if you only foucs on the problem then the problem gets bigger, if you focus on a solution then the solution gets bigger.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 18

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 4:02:11 PM

Evility

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Joined: 12/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave
what gives anyone the right to manipulate complete strangers into feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed, just because you feel the need to make a point.

I agree with this. It is simple lack of respect and I have to wonder how anyone who cannot respect those around them can have any respect for themselves. Tolerance and acceptance are fine aspirations and it will be nice when society as a whole extends more acceptance to the fetish community on the whole. I just don't agree with the strategy of forcing it on anyone.

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 19

RE: 2 public display questions - 2/21/2009 4:06:31 PM

SirRussellP

Posts: 107
Joined: 1/10/2006
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Kneeling in public as a form of punishment for me is acceptable. I have 2 ways of causing it to happen but both are caused by her being disrespectful. The first is when we are in a place or setting that kneeling would create a stir, I whisper in her ear that she has earned a punishment and that she will be ready to kneel for me when I say. She has tied my shoes and other things that she felt justified the kneeling. Other times she has just kneeled knowing that she earned this.

If we are in a public area that in my opinion kneeling would not cause a stir I just tell her why and to kneel for me. I have never seen anyone do more then a second glance at us while she kneels but I know in her heart she feels submissive and punished by the act. It isn't long that she kneels so many never even see it.

I also agree with Steel that many vanillas today could learn a lot about common respect from those of us that live by old codes. When a couple commits to each other then being concerned about causing the other any fear or upset should be part of that.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 20

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