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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 11:22:05 AM

Posts: 1110
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

LOL...friendly

I know Fergus...that's why I called you out.

I don't blame you either...it's all good ....enjoy.

YOu are cool! ONly wish you could play guitar....LOL

Mother F*cher, them's fightin' words and no joke!

I am classically trained with a degree in Music Education for guitar and have played professional gigs in a multitude of styles; teach private lessons, compose, and generally have a good time with music.

Wanna bust my balls? fine, but leave that topic to someone who knows better ;)

fergus

(in reply to fastlane)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 11:28:53 AM

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Whoopsie....sorry. Disregard anything I posted after this in reference to your guitar then. O.K.? Now, that I know you rock out with your cock out, I'm impressed.

I too read and play classical guitar Fergus.

Sorry I offended. I'll only pick on your kink...from here on out.

Peace, Kevin

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 11:36:34 AM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

...My question is in regards to why there is such an overwhelming amount of male submissives/slaves into gender-bending. It seems that about 98 out of 100 male subs that message Me end up wanting forced-femme, sissification, strapon play, forced-bi, wearing panties, or some other type of gender bending. Is there a reason for this?…

I think there is a lot of it, but 98% is a gross exaggeration. I can tell you I have a 100% desire to NOT go this route. I do not understand the fascination with this nor do I understand those that claim this is not extreme humiliation. But then again I feel much the same way about (to a lesser degree maybe) “puppy/pony/adult baby” play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

If.....a Big IF....here
I was a submissive male, I would want to be forced into things I was originally against.
It's what I do with female subs. It is extending their limits. Controlling them and Dominating. You know the limits, but you push them to places they want to be....eventually.
Fergus, before you know it you will end up in Panties and heels.....and love it.....LMAO

Peace, Kevin

There is some truth in that. But no, I do not want to be forced into this. My Ma’am does hang this over my head now and again. It is pure torment, at least that’s what I’d like to think. It is however not a hard limit for me. Submission is about being willing to go where the Domme wants to take you, not where you want to go. That’s why you need to know what your getting into. I would not get involved with a Domme that has listed “sissification” as something she likes. You do that, you know you’ll be there eventually.

BUT, if my Ma'am decided to take me there someday, I would obey. What else can I say!

(in reply to fergus)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 1:39:47 PM

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This seems a little odd coming from Mr. PA. Seems to me if you could do that, you could face anything at all.

(in reply to veronicaofML)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 3:43:30 PM

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Oh..I HAVE TO ANSWER this post, if not any other. 98 Percent....I DON'T THINK SO! That's kind of high, isn't it? From the responces I've seen here from this post, there seems more to me than 2 percent answering, that they don't Dress up.
Like someone said here, maybe you should change your profile then. That should solve the problem of them "Bothering You".

Cloudboy is right, it is used to control the Sub, and to show that he will do Anything to please his Mistress/Master. Now if the Male Sub happends to look better than you in Tights or whatever, why get Jelious and offended? You should feel happy for them, that they acan pull it off. How many times do you tie up your Male Subs in Work Pants and Work Boots, so he would be Macho?

I do it because it feels good, and I rarely ever see women, dressed like women. They all look like men, in pants, Heavy shoes or sneakers. Maybe if more females dressed like Females, us male Subs wouldn't have to dress like that.

But then again, it FEELS NICE ! Who wants to wear crappy Men's things, when they can feel something soft against their body. Men's things are BORING! They have no Pizzaz! As other say, a Teddy or Thigh Highs are so much more great looking for B&D, than Men's Boxers or Sleeveless Shirt.

I didn't have many sessions with MADAM in drag, but if she requested it, so be it. It is what MADE HER HAPPPY! When she told me to dress as a Ballerina, I done it. It felt good, and CUTE! And it was so much more fun than BORING MEN'S clothes.

I will not give up my Mary Janes for any one, and if it prevents me from finding a Mistress, so be it. It is pat of who I am, and there is no changing that. If she said no wearing them for sessions, so be it. I am there to make her happy, and if I am feeling GOOD ALL UNDER too, then what harm does it cause.

Having Fun in my Thongs, Leotards, Tights and Pointe Shoes, BalletBob

< Message edited by BalletBob -- 1/21/2006 3:50:01 PM >

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 9:17:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
IMO, most women don't know how to incorporate forced femme into their dominance.

Totally concur.

quote:

To do so does not mean total feminization, sissification, or always having to look at your boy in a dress.

Agreed.

quote:

What forced femme can do for you is this: 1) imasculate your man temporarily; 2) put him into sensual clothing bondage; 3) draw him closer to you as you tear down some masculine walls; 4) give him and you another avenue or control and training over his submission.

Absolutely all of the above.

quote:

Its funny how forcing and irreversability are both erotic and scary. Forcing: coming from the DOM. Irreversible: it is going to happen and the sub will not control the scene.

Nicely stated.

quote:

In forced femme, the male is feminized and cannot re-masculate until given permission. Its an interesting dynamic, and it doesn't have to be a lifestyle --- it can just be a comparmentalized d/s activity. As a sub, I analogize it to bondage, there is an allure to going in and there is a need to get out. A talented DOM exploits these elements.

You're full of suprises cloudboy ;) nice, succinct, and clear description. Much like a fem sub beginning to experience the full repetoire of her erotic self, does not wish to be a 'whore' or 'slut' in the negative sense society applies to these labels in reference to sexual active women, but rather embraces the ability to be her Master's or Mistress's 'whore' or 'slut' knowing that outside these erotic scenes and brief interludes where their dom reminds them they 'are their slut/whore', they are very much valued and appreciated for all that they are, not just who they are in the bedroom. It's safe to indugle these core urges because it doesn't define them.

A forced femme boy does not make him any less masculine when he is not dressed as thus, and any less masculine when he is dressed as such.

I often wonder if this apparently collective womens aversion to any notion of feminisation of any kind is a problem of some women's inability to embrace womenhood in its entirety. Falling into the catergory of having to be a male's 'other' ... as if without an at all times 'masculine' man in their midst somehow removes or dissapates the polar opposite of 'feminine' or 'femininity' from them. This theory kind gets backed up by the cries of "if I wanted a female sub I'd get one, but I don't, I want a man, and not a man in a dress!" when ever the topic of emasculation through clothing is raised.

Whether I am wearing pants and workboots or a flowing skirt with pretty pink frills and strappy sandals ...I am always a woman. I don't need nor require a man of masculinity to uphold that fact to me, or the world at large. I am centred in my womanhood and no man in a dress can ever detract from that centredness.

Possibly I can think this way because I don't necesarily genderise 'sub'...I may be hetrosexual and my sub/s therefore may be 'male'...but they are 'submissive' first, male second, just as I am a 'dominant' first, female second. Thus it's the 'sub' I am force femming, not the male (if that makes sense); for sure the theatrics of it all are gender based but is no different to the male dom who tells his fem sub it is a primal urge of women to be sexually subservient to men..or the male dom who removes a sub's femininity by stripping her of her 'female ego', that of the alluring sexual woman, disallowing feminine clothing and/or beauty enhancements, cutting long hair short, etc...funny we don't seem to hear male doms approached for such by a fem sub cry "but if I wanted a male sub, I would have got one!"...but women don't seem to afford themselves the luxury of realising indulging their sub 'desires' doesn't define their ability to be a woman nor a dominant.

Anyway, thats my two cents extrapolating on cloudboy's excellent posts.

< Message edited by Jasmyn -- 1/21/2006 9:32:04 PM >

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/21/2006 9:28:39 PM

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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
It's even to the extent that I sometimes find it offensive, because instead of enhancing My beauty and womanhood, it almost forces Me into the masculine role.

I find internalising the act of emasculating someone as being a masculine trait somewhat askewed thinking and that for myself, in doing such doesn't in any way shape or form detract from my beauty or womanhood...infact the complete opposite...it enhances the beauty of womanhood in the eyes of those I'm emasculating.

< Message edited by Jasmyn -- 1/21/2006 9:35:49 PM >

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 12:29:48 AM

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Being dom, I wasn't really aware of this trend until 2 or 3 years ago. A friend of mine is a well-known local domme (who has a secret life of being an occasional sub to me and one other). She revealed she likes to sissify male subs as well as females.

[Warning: The following opinion is just a shared opinion, and is not meant to invite the sleeping slave populating into doing a Spartacus. If this brings flames, I'm going to be seriously annoyed. Okay?]

We talked about this aspect, and we concluded that she at least (and perhaps other people?) don't view male subs as being fully male, or, alternatively, males as being fully submissive.

If this hypothesis has any validity, it may help explain why many switches like to master females but be dominated by males.

(in reply to fergus)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 5:29:33 AM

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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio
We talked about this aspect, and we concluded that she at least (and perhaps other people?) don't view male subs as being fully male, or, alternatively, males as being fully submissive.

I kind see her conclusion as a logical way of justifying her natural order into making some kind of sense...and doing in such a manner that it doesn't undermine the schema she has of what constitutes 'man'. Given she switches it makes perfect sense for her to view her men in two distinct camps of the traditional alpha male that she can submit to, and the traditional beta male that she has no desire to submit to. The want to emasculate so his former 'male' self is unrecognisable, can be concluded as reinforcing her schema of the all powerful 'male'. the one she can't dominate, so to dominate man, he is somehow 'less male' for he's in a dress. It's personal choice, it's her natural order and thats sweet for her. The sissification of women submitting to her kind plays on the same schema, by belittling/sissifying other women it can be seen as justifying a status as alpha sub female in a sea of submissive men and women. It's kinda like equating submission with weakness in one respect and natural order of subordinates in another. The former she sees others, the latter she sees herself.

The view submissive men are somehow less male is often used to justify the existence of male submission when faced with the reality male submissives do exist. But only by being something deviating from the male norm, thereby not undermining the masculine alpha male status quo of dominance. Unfortunately however completely ignoring the reality many men are submissive and in every respect 'male'.

Thus for me beta or alpha, to me they are both male...I don't give either one of them more or less status or power because of how they might see or deem themselves. ..I don't switch, so it's easy for me to compartmentalise 'maleness' as being powerless in my world.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to Petruchio)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 4:18:24 PM

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The view submissive men are somehow less male is often used to justify the existence of male submission when faced with the reality male submissives do exist. But only by being something deviating from the male norm, thereby not undermining the masculine alpha male status quo of dominance. Unfortunately however completely ignoring the reality many men are submissive and in every respect 'male'.

Thus for me beta or alpha, to me they are both male...I don't give either one of them more or less status or power because of how they might see or deem themselves. ..I don't switch, so it's easy for me to compartmentalise 'maleness' as being powerless in my world.
================

very well said... bravo!
thank You.

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 5:08:29 PM

Posts: 3052
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quote:

This is the first time I've asked any sort of question on CM forums, though I've had a profile on here for quite a while.
My question is in regards to why there is such an overwhelming amount of male submissives/slaves into gender-bending. It seems that about 98 out of 100 male subs that message Me end up wanting forced-femme, sissification, strapon play, forced-bi, wearing panties, or some other type of gender bending. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see the same trend in other orientations & sex. I don't see the majority of female subs wanting to play male or male Doms wanting to be feminized or female Dommes wanting to be masculated. I'm sure there are some out there, but it's not this overabundance, as with male subs wanting to be feminized.
As a female Dominant, I personally don't like it. I choose females when I want females. I choose males because I want males. It's even to the extent that I sometimes find it offensive, because instead of enhancing My beauty and womanhood, it almost forces Me into the masculine role.
Most of My female Dominant friends agree that it really does nothing for them and they pretty much engage in feminization with male subs just to appease the sub.
I'm very curious about why most male subs need feminized...
And if your Mistress hates feminization of males, how easily could you give it up?

Maybe it's men who are gay that can not live with that openly in life and with family, so they engage themselves with women who will phuck them in the ass as they close their eyes and women who will interact with family/friends in there "normal" lives???

Just a guess, for I have no idea why anyone may think or their reason for wanting and needing what they do.

I know there are experienced people here though, hope someone can help you out

.

*Brightspot

< Message edited by brightspot -- 1/22/2006 5:10:32 PM >

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 7:30:12 PM

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I'm impressed you can follow her logic, b/c I can't really do it here.

(in reply to veronicaofML)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 7:46:44 PM

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quote:

I often wonder if this apparently collective womens aversion to any notion of feminisation of any kind is a problem of some women's inability to embrace womenhood in its entirety.

The core thing is many women don't like the way men look in a dress or in drag. Some of us look somewhere between bad and ridiculous, not unlike a hippo in a tutu or an ape in a skirt. There is also something jarring about seeing that male face, trying but failing to look feminine. The female reaction is often like a pedestrian stepping into dog poo on the walk way,

A negative reaction this viceral is hard to to change. Plus, if a woman wants a man, seeks a man, and has man -- why make changes to him she doesn't like?

Lastly, women may veiw feminization as a poaching on their own turf, something they don't want to surrender.

So with most women, there's a kind of hard limit in play, and I don't think it has much to do with F's not embracing womanhood, as it does with simply wanting men to stay on their side of the fence.

(in reply to Jasmyn)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 7:54:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

The view submissive men are somehow less male is often used to justify the existence of male submission when faced with the reality male submissives do exist. But only by being something deviating from the male norm, thereby not undermining the masculine alpha male status quo of dominance. Unfortunately however completely ignoring the reality many men are submissive and in every respect 'male'.

Thus for me beta or alpha, to me they are both male...I don't give either one of them more or less status or power because of how they might see or deem themselves. ..I don't switch, so it's easy for me to compartmentalise 'maleness' as being powerless in my world.
================

very well said... bravo!
thank You.

Thank you V, I suprise myself sometimes ;)

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to veronicaofML)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/22/2006 7:57:12 PM

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I think you may have missed my point entirely ... oh well, not too worry.. but thanks for the response.

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 4:19:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

The want to emasculate so his former 'male' self is unrecognisable, can be concluded as reinforcing her schema of the all powerful 'male'. the one she can't dominate, so to dominate man, he is somehow 'less male' for he's in a dress. It's personal choice, it's her natural order and thats sweet for her. The sissification of women submitting to her kind plays on the same schema, by belittling/sissifying other women it can be seen as justifying a status as alpha sub female in a sea of submissive men and women. It's kinda like equating submission with weakness in one respect and natural order of subordinates in another. The former she sees others, the latter she sees herself.

The view submissive men are somehow less male is often used to justify the existence of male submission when faced with the reality male submissives do exist. But only by being something deviating from the male norm, thereby not undermining the masculine alpha male status quo of dominance. Unfortunately however completely ignoring the reality many men are submissive and in every respect 'male'.

Thus for me beta or alpha, to me they are both male...I don't give either one of them more or less status or power because of how they might see or deem themselves. ..I don't switch, so it's easy for me to compartmentalise 'maleness' as being powerless in my world.

quote:

I think you may have missed my point entirely ... oh well, not too worry.. but thanks for the response.

I just can't follow this, no matter how many times I read it. Not only do I not get your point, I don't even see it. At best, I kinda get something.

(in reply to Jasmyn)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 4:39:34 AM

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You're welcome to ask here or in private that what you need explained. :)

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 5:06:26 AM

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I'm not interested in crossdressing at all, I find him sexier naked personally but I do enjoy using a strapon on my guy.

~Alexa

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(in reply to fastlane)

RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 6:20:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot
Maybe it's men who are gay that can not live with that openly in life and with family, so they engage themselves with women who will phuck them in the ass as they close their eyes and women who will interact with family/friends in there "normal" lives???

This is probably the least likely reason it happens. I'm sure someone out there is doing exactly that...but far from majority.

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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 12:49:13 PM

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quote:

A forced femme boy does not make him any less masculine when he is not dressed as thus, and any less masculine when he is dressed as such.

I often wonder if this apparently collective womens aversion to any notion of feminisation of any kind is a problem of some women's inability to embrace womenhood in its entirety.

Your post was great to read and perhaps understand some reasons, but in the end, what matters to me is, unless I am coercing him out of his comfort zone (by making him wear things I find beautiful, but he usually wouldn't be in), seeing him dressed in frillys leave my libido/eggs just cold, and therefore the whole thing not fun.

M

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(in reply to Jasmyn)

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