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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs???


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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 1:51:39 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

This is the first time I've asked any sort of question on CM forums, though I've had a profile on here for quite a while.
My question is in regards to why there is such an overwhelming amount of male submissives/slaves into gender-bending. It seems that about 98 out of 100 male subs that message Me end up wanting forced-femme, sissification, strapon play, forced-bi, wearing panties, or some other type of gender bending. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see the same trend in other orientations & sex. I don't see the majority of female subs wanting to play male or male Doms wanting to be feminized or female Dommes wanting to be masculated. I'm sure there are some out there, but it's not this overabundance, as with male subs wanting to be feminized.
As a female Dominant, I personally don't like it. I choose females when I want females. I choose males because I want males. It's even to the extent that I sometimes find it offensive, because instead of enhancing My beauty and womanhood, it almost forces Me into the masculine role.
Most of My female Dominant friends agree that it really does nothing for them and they pretty much engage in feminization with male subs just to appease the sub.
I'm very curious about why most male subs need feminized...
And if your Mistress hates feminization of males, how easily could you give it up?


I LOVE to see my sub dressed up in frillies and bows. I think he is adorable. Why do I like seeing him this way? I'm not sure. I only know that when I see him cleaning or cooking with a cute little outfit on, it brings a very big smile to my face. Do I get sexually excited by seeing him this way? Not really. Do I get emotionally/mentally charged from it? You bet I do. I love the power of knowing that he is dressed this way because I chose this outfit for him to wear and he is wearing it because it pleases me. Does it please him to wear it? I don't really care if it does or not, I KNOW it pleases me to see him in it, and that is all that matters. I have never felt like it forces me into a masculine role. I dont feel that insecure about my own femininity that I couldnt share my own clothing with my male submissive. Would he give up wearing womens clothing if I didnt want him to wear them? YES. He is after-all my submissive. He will do almost anything in this world to please me.
I dont know about your numbers. I have read this entire thread and I have found that there is definitely more than 2% responding that they do not like wearing womens clothing. Either your numbers are off or the 2% responding are liars <ducks> lol


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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 1:56:00 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
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MistressOfGa
Indecent
================

yummmmmm 2 things i luv...glasses on girls and long dark hair...

You are as pretty as can be!


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/23/2006 2:04:51 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
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quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

MistressOfGa
Indecent
================

yummmmmm 2 things i luv...glasses on girls and long dark hair...

You are as pretty as can be!



Well thank you! I didnt know my photo was going to show up over on this side..But thank you for the nice compliment :)

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RE: Either your numbers are off ... - 1/23/2006 11:31:07 PM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/27/2004
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quote:

I dont know about your numbers. I have read this entire thread and I have found that there is definitely more than 2% responding that they do not like wearing womens clothing. Either your numbers are off or the 2% responding are liars <ducks> lol

sissy Just wanted to point out that 98% of the statistics quoted on this thread were made up on the spot.

sissy maid lola






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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/24/2006 7:22:00 AM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
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i am not sure what kind of women you are hanging with, but the women in the Detroit area are pretty smart....they know what it is they like and know what they have no interest in.


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


IMO, most women don't know how to incorporate forced femme into their dominance. To do so does not mean total feminization, sissification, or always having to look at your boy in a dress.



(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 45
A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 7:50:35 AM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/27/2004
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quote:

Just to point out, a huge majority of female submissives love being told to wear sexy/feminine things as well that will over exagerrate their femininity.

As a culture we still associate female with submissive, subservient, weaker. We associate female as being prettier, softer, sweeter, to be used to entertain. So it makes sense that being in the submissive position in a relationship would highlight those parts of ourselves.

Well, that was a home run you just hit, LA. It doesn't account for every and all reasons for why fetishistic transvestites associate their crossdressing with both submission and humiliation, but it does go to the heart of the matter very elegantly.

sissy Particularly liked the way you reminded everyone that "female submissives love being told to wear sexy / feminine things as well that will over exaggerate their femininity." If Dominant Women that have also played with, or own, female subs and therefore know this truth still don't understand (or are not willing to admit) that the same dynamic also works for males, but ONLY MUCH MORE SO because of the way masculinity is highly constructed in our society, could it just possibly be that the reason for this lack of understanding / denial is that these Dominant Woman can't get past their own insecurities over the intrusion of the male over onto Their side of the fence?

Everybody has erotic fantasies. The erotic fantasies of most submissive males (whether they crossdress to any extent or not) usually involve them reaching some sort of "perfect sub-space." What that actually is will vary considerably from sub male to sub male, and may well vary over the course of each sub male's lifetime. The mechanism by which a purely sensual D/s submissive/slave believes that his ultimate blissful state of surrender can be achieved is primarily mental pain (viz., humiliation, degradation, contempt, etc.) ... the more mental pain that is inflicted on him the more helpless, vulnerable and out of control he feels ... and therefore the more mental pain he craves because it takes him nearer that abstract elusive ideal that is his own "perfect sub-space." Similarly (and this is where sissy, who is not a physical pain masochist, has to ASSUME here, with all the attendant risks that making assumptions carries), a pure "pain slut" masochist believes that his ultimate blissful state of surrender can be achieved primarily via physical pain ... the more physical pain that is inflicted on him the more helpless, vulnerable and out of control he feels ... and therefore the more physical pain he craves because it takes him nearer that abstract elusive ideal that is his own "perfect sub-space."

Clearly, most of us sub males have a mixture of both elements of the masochist and D/s sub/slave in us. However, most TVs will normally lie at the mental pain / sensual D/s end of the spectrum rather than the physical pain / S&m end. Crossdressing is NOT about forcing the release of endorphins with whips and floggers. It's all about being out of control - or more specifically, under the control of that special person we want to surrender ourselves up to (our Mistress, Domina, Goddess, Wife, whatever). We crave to be controlled against our will and forced to submit and serve, but we don't, for the most part, associate a lot of intense pain with getting there. Coercion through mental humiliation and degradation is our preferred route. Crossdressing is a "mindf**k" for us. cloudboy describes it as a form of "mental bondage." Same difference really.

Every time one hears the term "feminization" in BDSM it is usually preceded by the terms "forced" or "enforced" ... there is a subtle difference of nuance between these terms, but it really doesn't matter here. This sissy is of the school of thought that says that the difference between a transvestite that emasculates / feminizes himself (such as lola), and one that goes to a Domina / Mistress in order to do it, is similar to the difference between a swimmer that jumps straight into the cold water in the pool and one that stands on the side of the pool hesitating about it, and who ultimately needs a shove. They both want to go swimming and they both end up in the water doing so. Whether a male feminizes himself, or whether he goes to a Domina that "forcibly feminizes" him, in the end it is something that he secretly wants to do, and he ends up doing it.

Far too much emphasis is put on that "helping shove" from the Domina. If the guy didn't really want to do it he wouldn't go to the Domina in the first place so that She could "force him." Even for male subs whose crossdressing was totally the idea of their Mistress (i.e., it had never been on their own laundry list of fantasies), if they tacitly agree to do it then they also have a secret proclivity to do it (maybe the desire isn't as strong as in the other two cases, but the desire and curiosity to explore this very taboo area for all modern males is still there). However, if they don't have this secret proclivity (however weak) then actually "forcing" such males to crossdress against their will seriously violates the rules of SSC ... in fact, it's the difference between BDSM and Abu Ghraib!

The key to breaking down a man's ego is for him to tell his Domina up-front his biggest insecurities so that She can fully exploit them. As a competitive male conditioned to promote his strengths and hide his weaknesses in his vanilla life this seems like total anathema to most males. And indeed it is for every successful competitive male. But the only way to truly achieve vulnerability and helplessness with a Domme is for the male to let down his eternal male guard and expose his Achilles heel to Her. In order for him to do that he must first understand and acknowledge to himself what his own Achilles heel actually is. A man's true kink is almost definitely tied to one of his darkest fears and the two together hold the key to his being able to tunnel down deep into his subconscious.

For most men, the way they are socially conditioned throughout their childhood and teenage years to prepare them for adult manhood, the idea of completely failing as the male they have been trained and conditioned to become, is one of their biggest fears, if not their actual biggest one. The embodiment of a failed masculine male is an emasculated male. One of the most obvious ways to emasculate a male, but NOT the only one, is to feminize him. The architypal image of a feminized or emasculated male that we all carry with us in our subconscious from our childhood playground days is the "sissy" ... the very thing we were all terrified of being called when we were children! From a period very early in our childhood development, the "sissy" image is one of failure and weakness and therefore ridicule, scorn and humiliation ... and with that comes loss of - in fact, almost a total lack of - power and control within a social group. So the "sissy" image connotes teasing, humiliation, embarrassment, scorn and even degradation. The "sissy" image also connotes lack of control; being picked on; being told what to do; and generally having to submit to the will of others.

Thus the submissive male transvestite, in wanting to attain his "perfect sub-space" where he feels totally liberated and at peace, taps into that one guaranteed source of lack of power and control that he is familiar with from childhood (most likely, it is the only one he knows), when he emasculates himself by feminizing himself to match the long feared image of the "sissy." He can either do this himself, and reach deep into his own psyche to address his darkest fear (or, at least, one of his darkest fears) or he can go to a Domme to "force" him to do it. In order to do the latter he has to "fess up" to Her that this is a secret fantasy of his. Which is how his Domme willl ultimately get inside his head and break him down and make him feel totally helpless and vulnerable, thereby allowing him to achieve the sense of freedom - that liberating "perfect sub-space" - that he so passionately craves. But he has to give Her that key on a platter up-front. That is the gift of CD submission ... the true gift of trust.

Emasculation - or failure as a male - is probably the deepest subconscious male fear of all. The tension of it can be extremely erotic - that is, thinking about it can get us instantly stiff. Emasculation itself is probably too much of an abstract concept to focus on, so it is instead at the heart of many other more tangible male erotic kinks, NOT just crossdressing. Thus feminization / sissification is NOT the only way that a submissive male can "fetishize" (i.e., make a fetish of) his fear of emasculation. Feminization is just a more easily attainable and pragmatic method of doing so. Many submissive males have castration and/or penectomy fantasies ... but clearly few are going to act on them. However, some do (at least, if you believe any of the BDSM fantasy literature! ). Long term chastity is also another emasculation engendered fetish or kinky turn on. Most forms of CBT arousal also probably stem from the tension caused by the ultimate fear of emasculation and/or failure as a male. Cuckoldry is also another one.

With castration / penectomy the male physically loses his male genitalia - the very bodily attributes that distinguish him as a virile man. With long term chastity he retains his distinguishing male equipment but is powerless to use it of his own accord, but can only do so at his Mistress' whim. With CBT the male offers up his special jewels to his Mistress in order to be trampled on, kicked, prodded, stabbed, shocked, encased, or splayed on a butterfly board, etc. In the end he gets his jewels back but for the duration he is living on the edge ... one false slip and the pain could be even more excruciating than he bargained for. But the other real tension that is present in CBT is that one false slip could cause him to not be able to function and perform as a virile male anymore. And with cuckoldry, although the male has his genitalia and they function perfectly, he is now a failure and must watch as other men get to do with their male equipment what he really wants to do with his, but he is not permitted to do.

With sissification the male's physical presentation in front of others is reduced to one that everyone instantly recognizes as effeminate and weak, with the associated connotation that he cannot perform adequately as a virile male (even though under all those petticoats and frillies his equipment is in fine working order). In most people's minds, the "sissy" image of "male inadequacy" usually implies both a very small inadequate pecker (and/or an inability to get it up) and/or homosexuality, although most men that are turned on by this kink are usually deficient in none of these areas. [Note: sissy didn't really mean to imply that being homosexual means a male is deficient in any way; that was simply the most succinct way he could find of expressing that thought.] In fact, the less deficient they are the more likely the "sissy" role will be a turn-on for them. If either or both conditions were true, the role would be far too close to the truth and therefore couldn't be a kink because there would be no room for fantasy in it. But that's more of a guideline rather than a hard or fast rule.

Most "sissy" roles are usually further intensified by adding one or more of the other fetishes to it. The web is now full of images of cuckold sissy maids that are kept in chastity devices under their petticoats, and who are regularly treated to CBT. While all of the other fetishes mentioned address the non-performance or failure of the male in some way, as if that wasn't enough, the "sissy" role also includes connotations of non-performance of the male with women. As mentioned above, the "sissy" role encapsulates an effeminate appearance which suggests homosexuality, and with the addition of butt plugs; the concept of being taken by the FemDom's strap-on; and the expectation that sissies also suck cock when instructed; all of these activities add to this gay imagery. Any one of the above activities by itself is enough to put a submissive male into his submissive headspace, and some people refer to any of these extraneous activities as being "sissy play" as well. But butt plugs, strap-ons, chastity devices and cuckoldry are not really "sissy play" by themselves since there is no feminization involved. "Emasculation" or "failed male" play might be more accurate terminology for these activities. OTOH, the "sissy" image does not always connote "man in a dress" to people; it also connotes simply "weak or inadequate male" and so maybe the term "sissy play" is appropriate after all.

Probably the most powerful facet of "sissy play" is that it provides a kind of "fetish portal" for all of the constituent kinks so far mentioned. All of the kinky activities mentioned above, plus a whole slew of others not mentioned - such as the bondage aspects of corsets, 5" heels, hobble skirts and posture collars, etc. - are neatly integrated into the concept of the "sissy maid" role, although in its purest form it really doesn't imply many of them (such as cuckoldry, chastity, posture collars, CBT, etc.). This one simple term has come to represent a veritable smorgasbord of kink. This may also offer one possible answer to the question posited by the OP - "why so much sissy/fem male subs?" Many of the males contacting Her may only be turned on by just one or two of the kinks / BDSM activities mentioned here, but in browsing the web the prospective male sub may have come to the conclusion that all of the activities that he enjoys are typical "sissy" activities and that he is himself consequently a "sissy" sub male. He may not even have any burning desire to crossdress, but have only come to the conclusion that he should want to do that based on all of the other stuff he is into!

Like so many other aspects of BDSM, the whole area of "forced feminization / sissification" play is loaded with paradoxes, contradictions and things that seem to be completely the opposite of what they really are. The feeling of "perfect sub-space" that the sissified male is seeking is usually associated with a great feeling of freedom and liberation. To obtain this liberating experience the sissy must give up all control and decision-making to his Mistress - the freedom he enjoys is the liberation of surrender! As already stated above, the more a male is the opposite of the perceived image of the "sissy" and has good self-esteem and security WRT his own masculinity, the more he is likely to be turned on by this kink. If his whole life has been plagued by a perception that he is effeminate and weak then the "sissy" role will almost not be an illusive "fantasy kink" for him, but will instead be a "reality nightmare" that he is always trying to avoid. And remember that all of the above identified ways of emasculating himself, and making it appear he is a male incapable of performing, are all designed at the end of the day to make him perform and explode more intensely and passionately than he otherwise ever could.

Finally, as MistressofGA so astutely pointed out, if a woman is made to feel uncomfortable or feels that her femininity is threatened by a feminized male then that is much more a reflection of her OWN feminine insecurity than it is a reflection on the male. It says that her own femininity is derived from the masculinity of the males around her rather than being inherent in herself. Jasmyn is also someone that really gets this (unlike the OP) and Her description that Her male sub's gender is secondary to his submissive role is probably a very useful one here. As an alpharish male this sissy finds it difficult to submit to a Woman ... his normal male gender appearance and presentation is too associated with his performance as such a male in the outside vanilla world. The transformation of alpharish male to sissy maid, although it appears on the surface to be a male to female transformation, it is really an independent dominant male to obediently submissive third gender transformation.

The "sissy" role is not about passing as a woman and resolving gender dysphoria issues (which a male to female transformation achieves for someone that has GID and is TG/TS). It is about looking recognizable as a man in a dress (but not in a Corporal Klinger sort of way that cloudsub described so well). Even if you pass totally as a woman when en femme you are still going to be wearing visual and audible clues that you are a "sissy" (e.g., bells attached to your frilly panties, bows in your hair with the word "sissy" or "pansy" written on them, etc.). The status "sissy" is a third gender - you are a "non-male" NOT a female. Not being male does not make one a female ... as many transsexual M2F discover too late to their chagrin. But nevertheless, they are still close to being what they desire to be. OTOH, a "sissy" is a pretty third gender non-male ... with none of the privileges or power of a real man or a real woman. He is powerless and has no choice but to obey his controller (his Mistress or one of Her designates). Therein lies the BDSM power exchange from "sissy" to Mistress, and therein lies his total, sublime surrender that he finds so liberating.

Despite what all the homophobes and transphobes on this site will tell you, "Mistress/sissy maid" play is at the heart of D/s play, and is not some kind of peripheral adjunct BDSM activity like most people in other areas of the scene appear to treat it. It is a kind of mental bondage (as cloudsub claimed) but there are also elements of physical bondage - viz., corsets, cinchers, heels, even white gloves and silk stockings (when you are under strict orders to never get them dirty or ladder them while performing your tasks!) - and elements of corporal punishment - viz. OTK spankings (very intimate and appropriate for the sissy maid role), and paddlings, canings and floggings for really naughty sissies - plus lots of foot worship, boot-licking, ass worship, oral service, etc. And, of course, because he is a maid, there is oodles of obedient household chores service (for some perverse reason, certain Women really like this aspect best!). In addition to all of that there is also the cuckoldry, chastity, and CBT play etc. that was discussed earlier that can be thrown into the mix, too. As sissy has already stated, "sissy play" is a veritable smorgasbord of kink!

sissy Hopes everyone that made it this far found this useful.

sissy maid lola






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RE: Why SO much sissy/fem male subs??? - 1/24/2006 8:00:07 AM   
justheather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BalletBob
I will not give up my Mary Janes for any one


You n me both, Bob! You tell em!

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When you cut me out of my life
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RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 9:43:19 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

Everybody has erotic fantasies.


Except Veronica, life's beat them out of him.

quote:

Finally, as MistressofGA so astutely pointed out, if a woman is made to feel uncomfortable or feels that her femininity is threatened by a feminized male then that is much more a reflection of her OWN feminine insecurity than it is a reflection on the male.


I think the whole "feminine insecurity" =s "threatened by a feminized male" equation is bullshit.

You're more on target when you say, "It says that her own femininity is derived from the masculinity of the males around her...." This is MOST TRUE, IMO, and it explains why "traditional" females want "male" males. "Male" males are the yin to their yang, so why bother with a ""sissy".... (as) a third gender," as you point out.

quote:

"fetish portal"


One other negative for women is the whole fetish orientation of CDs, whereby their attention is centered on clothes and not the F. Not only is the sub's attention focused on clothes, but its on THE WRONG CLOTHES. Not only that, its on "their clothes!"

I'll harken back to my own original theme, 'trussing' up a man now and again, opens things up, provides for some fun experimentation, new role play, and I'd say closer intimacy between M-F. It does not have to be a full blown thing, or anyone's first preference.

quote:

transphobes


What's the difference between this and not liking a guy in a dress? When elevates a "taste" or "preference" sentiment into a phobia?

-----

A small digression here about clothes. I myself, generally DO NOT LIKE overly feminine women. I don't mix well with nor do I really like "girlie-girls." I'm way too much guy for them, way not into fashion, appearances, trends, and extroverted bubble talk. This bias of mine spills over into clothes too. To me, my Mistress looks great in fitted pants, sweats, atheletic gear --- and what I would otherwise call ready-to-go-wear. It makes little or no difference to me if she's in heels, stockings, or some sort of flowing dress --- in fact I really don't like that very much. Neither does she, and as I like to say, she's a Man-Woman -- (my feminine ideal, actually.)

Also --- Makeup --- I hate women in too much makeup. Yick. Muscles, I like muscles. Tone, I like tone. Strength, I like strength. Its fun to have some push between the bodies, as opposed to one push and one "give."

Women are lucky, though, they can be a Man-Woman, and there's not a ripple in pool --- in fact many men like myself are turning their heads. If we switch this around for men, well, folks laugh, gasp, and run for the exits ---- its considered a freakshow. Me? I consider a short haired, muscular, woman adorned with a strap on just as sexy (if not more) than a long haired, made-up woman in heels, garters, and hose with her legs spread.


(in reply to sissymaidlola)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 10:16:09 AM   
tasha_tart


Posts: 385
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
I was going to comment on this post on a "point-by-point" basis, but decided to summarize a bit:

  • The way I read it, and of course I may have misread, lola seems to generalise that crossdressing=sissification=submissiveness. In her case, this may be true, but it is not true in all. CDs are as unique and varied as anyone else.
  • lola also seems to feel crossdressing=humiliation. True for some, I'm sure, but not for myself or any CDs I know.
  • I know I've said this before...but...if a Domme is not interested in CD, feminization, sissification, or any variation thereof...move on! If something in that (very) general area is of paramount importance to you...she isn't the Domme for you. It's no different from someone who wants his or her ass beaten bloody passing over a Dom/me who has no interest in that.

    Tasha


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(in reply to sissymaidlola)
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RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 11:06:17 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I'll go one step further to sissy lola's post, and MistressofGa, and say, any woman who fears, thwarts or challenges the notion a dominant woman should define her femininity for herself (as opposed to derviving it from the masculinity of males) is smyptomatic of that woman's fear having power herself. You can never know what it is to be powerful if you fear that what powers you.







< Message edited by Jasmyn -- 1/24/2006 11:28:22 AM >


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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 12:20:59 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

I'll go one step further to sissy lola's post, and MistressofGa, and say, any woman who fears, thwarts or challenges the notion a dominant woman should define her femininity for herself (as opposed to derviving it from the masculinity of males) is smyptomatic of that woman's fear having power herself. You can never know what it is to be powerful if you fear that what powers you.


Yes, but in the context of this thread, its a reach to say that when a dominant woman rejects CDs she does not "define her femininity for herself." This implies that a dominant woman only accepts her femininity when she dresses/likes to dress men as woman. Truthfully, wanting men "to be men" is FEMININE --- wanting them in another way --- that's kinky. This is more about "what is" as opposed to choices.

So, just as you cannot change a person's orientation (say from gay to straight or vise versa), you cannot expect FEMDOMs to take to feminization of males when they are turned off by it. Being turned off by it is not a rejection of femininity, but more a rejection of male fetishism. Such is a woman's right, albeit, it may be her loss as well. Femininity, is besides the point, I would argue.


(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 2:11:16 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

I'll go one step further to sissy lola's post, and MistressofGa, and say, any woman who fears, thwarts or challenges the notion a dominant woman should define her femininity for herself (as opposed to derviving it from the masculinity of males) is smyptomatic of that woman's fear having power herself. You can never know what it is to be powerful if you fear that what powers you.


This implies that a dominant woman only accepts her femininity when she dresses/likes to dress men as woman.


*sigh*

How you extrapolated that from my words I have no idea.

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 3:01:55 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

*sigh*

How you extrapolated that from my words I have no idea.


Its funny, because "this" could go round and round endlessly when what we are talking about is "femininity," what that means, and where it comes from. In the context of a debate, its quite possible no one is ever talking about the same thing.

1) Is femininity DERIVED from masculinity, i.e. in complementary opposition to it? (The vagina is soft and supple the penis is hard and stiff.) If yes, its no wonder feminine women reject CDs. It screws up up the calculus.

2) Is femininity self generated/created as you say? If so, then the feminine exists without any foils or opposites, its a stand alone creation. In this model, the feminine calculus is wide open, arbitrary if you will. In this domain one chooses what is feminine ----- and the presentation of CDs here are much easier --- for nature is never defied and order is not violated because everything is a matter of choice.

I'm not sure women in category (1) fear, thwart or challenge "the notion [that] a dominant woman should define her femininity for herself (as opposed to derviving it from the masculinity of males) is smyptomatic of that woman's fear having power herself." No, a woman in category (1) just conforms to the world as she knows it. Anything else would be a falsehodd for her, an artificiality. In my opinion, most F's are type (1)s.

That's just the way it is. No matter how erudite Lola waxes about transphobia, or I opine about being more flexible, or you argue for #2 --- not much is going to change about F's rejecting ways of male feminization or F's disliking CDs. It'll just never be their thing. Do I think this is narrow minded? Absolutely.

O well.




(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Most women don't know how to ... - 1/24/2006 3:12:33 PM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

IMO, most women don't know how to incorporate forced femme into their dominance. To do so does not mean total feminization, sissification, or always having to look at your boy in a dress.

Well, sissy has posted a number of blogs to this effect all over BDSM boards on the web. What really amuses sissy are those women that insist that there be NO sexual element involved in their BDSM play ... e.g., you would not be allowed to come during a session with them. Yet these very same women are frequently the same ones that complain that they are sexually turned off by a feminized guy and so they don't want to go there. Hellooooo, what's wrong with this picture and why wouldn't you want to give all your power to a woman like that? LOL

quote:

What forced femme can do for you is this: 1) imasculate your man temporarily; 2) put him into sensual clothing bondage; 3) draw him closer to you as you tear down some masculine walls; 4) give him and you another avenue or control and training over his submission.

sissy Couldn't agree more, cloudboy! Except it's emasculate NOT imasculate <giggles> .... oooh, sowwy, that was the grammar Nazi in sissy's alpha male side showing through. But sissy is afraid that that kinda thing is hard to prevent when lola is posting online. However, lola is usually in much better control of the male side of his personality when she's out on the town in real life and having a good time. No, no, really ... believe sissy when he tells you that lola is absolutely oodles of fun to be with when she's got a few drinks inside her. Besides, hon, it's lola's experience that when you're sucking a really cute guy's cock it's kinda hard to work those spelling bee sorta comments into the conversation ...

quote:

Akasha has real handle on this stuff and she said something once that really resonated with me. She said, "who doesn't get excited by women's clothing?" She went on to say that a man totally opposed to CDing would still get excited by the feel of women's panites or other such item. I think she's right.

Yes, yes ... sissy has to agree again, cloudboy. AAkasha is definitely one of the few Dommes resident on CollarMe that actually gets it ......... eh, wait a friggin' minute here, it was sissy that told YOU about Her, cloudboy ....

quote:

So, my advice is this, which ain't really answering your question: don't be put off by it. Most men want to be men, especially with their Mistress. But, when you mix it up a little bit, unexpected connections are made.

sissy Agrees once again, cloudboy. That's exactly how sissy feels about the D/s partner that he seeks. That is, sissy just wants to be able to "mix it up a little bit" every now and again with Her as lola. Actually, not even that. He just wants to know that that door is open should we care to go there together at a later time, rather than being permanently screwed shut by the kind of FemDom opinions that started this thread. But the perennial problem that CDs are faced with is ... do you tell your partner that you crossdress BEFORE you commit to a relationship together, or AFTER you have both committed to it ?

IsHO, the latter approach is unethical, although it makes the search for a partner a lot easier (and with more chance of success) when you are just selling the vanilla male self that you know They want and that you can perform as. So the former approach is the only ethical one IsHO, but that one requires selling yourself as a CD up front ... which as we have already discussed, most women don't want, even though you are only in your femme persona (and appropriately dressed) about 2% of the time anyway! It kinda sucks that you have to suppress the real male you that you are 98% of the time under the ethical approach!

[ Oooh, there's that number "98%" again ... sissy should really change that to 98.68789% or something otherwise folks reading this will simply think that lola just made that number up off the top of his head! ]

quote:

My Mistress has pointed out that the Male wardrobe, as a rule, holds no facination for women because women already dress like men every day --- so there is no allure there. The same, however, can't be said of the female wardrobe ----- that's taboo for men (in society.) So, this might be the reason men are attracting to trying it out. But like I said, it doesn't have to be a full blown thing. You can still have your boy and eat the cake to by bluring the lines every now and then.

sissy Thinks that what you meant to say there was, "You can still have your cake and eat the boy too by blurring the lines every now and then," wasn't it cloudboy ?

But the comment about Women being able to claim male clothing for themselves, while the converse is NOT true - i.e., males cannot claim female clothing for themselves - is exactly true. sissy Only has to look at his own closet to know that. There is nothing on the male side of his closet that lola couldn't wear and accessorize or enhance in some feminine way and make it her own, including my goddam' jock strap, but as for all the stuff on lola's side of the closet ... well, that's what makes sissy a friggin' transvestite! Go figure ...

Women don't always appreciate the truly awesome power of Their own sexuality ... only a Woman has the power to eroticize tasks and clothes for the male like that. So, for instance, if you told sissy to go clean the bathroom floor with a toothbrush he would tell you where to soddin' get off, cloudboy ... but if the right kind of Domina did it, sissy just knows he would immediately thank Her for allowing him to use the toothbrush! Why does it always work like that, cloudboy ? ... sissy really wants to know!

quote:

P.S. This post does not include a commentary on men who are compulsive cross dressers or TS oriented. But those fellas are far from anyting close to 98% of all submissive men.

sissy Has got some news for you, cloudboy, if they do it that much and that compulsively they are no longer fellas ... and as for being close to 98% of all submissive men, well that number is probably nearer 96%, cloudboy .... sissy thinks the OP may have been exaggerating just a tad, hon!


< Message edited by sissymaidlola -- 1/24/2006 3:34:06 PM >


_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Most women don't know how to ... - 1/24/2006 3:54:19 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola

grammar Nazi


O, you could have a field day with my posts. I'm downright bad in this regard. Thanks for the correction.

(in reply to sissymaidlola)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 4:28:12 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline
Everybody has erotic fantasies.
===========================

psssssssst..............not quite...every..............one.


some of us,,, have never had one. i know i was not allowed to...growing up...so i never developed it. "I" was taught.........women are NOT sex objects......they are people.
and
fantasy is for children that don't know any better...

but it is how "I"..................view the world.

i AM the exception to your rule.

take care


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to sissymaidlola)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 4:30:22 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

nor do I really like "girlie-girls." I'm way too much guy for them, way not into fashion, appearances, trends, and extroverted bubble talk


Cloudboy slightly annoyed me with the first few posts I read. (No offense - lots of people annoy me. It my issue.) Then he grew on me as he is intelligent, always an interesting read and makes some valid points. But come now. Way too much guy?

quote:

To me, my Mistress looks great in fitted pants, sweats, atheletic gear --- and what I would otherwise call ready-to-go-wear. It makes little or no difference to me if she's in heels, stockings, or some sort of flowing dress --- in fact I really don't like that very much...Also --- Makeup --- I hate women in too much makeup. Yick. Muscles, I like muscles. Tone, I like tone. Strength, I like strength.


Well, it is good thing you don't care a bit about appearances...

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: At best, I kinda get something - 1/24/2006 5:00:50 PM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You're welcome to ask here or in private that what you need explained. :)

sissy Has to admit that his reaction to Your post was pretty much the same as cloudboy's, Ma'am. sissy Read it three or four times before he said to himself, "Well, i think i kinda understand what Her drift is here."

And then when sissy saw veronica's reply he simply assumed that You must have emailed her and asked her to post that ... it was the only logical explanation !! <giggles>

sissy maid lola






_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: At best, I kinda get something - 1/24/2006 6:43:41 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline
And then when sissy saw veronica's reply he simply assumed that You must have emailed her and asked her to post that ... it was the only logical explanation !! <giggles>
=============

naw

don't do requests

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to sissymaidlola)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: A Veritable Smorgasbord of Kink - 1/24/2006 7:50:37 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sensualips

[But come now. Way too much guy?


That's right, no sisters growing up, only brothers. Went to all boys schools. Raised Catholic. In sum, you women already represent another species, and the sub species within you, otherwise known as girlie-girls (my wife's term, not mine) is totally alien to me. Its not a macho claim, but as I guy, well they don't like me much and I don't get them. I don't see that ever changing.

(in reply to Sensualips)
Profile   Post #: 60
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