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RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 11:43:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i am not one that would agree going into a relationship to be shared. my reasons are pratical, medically i dont feel it is safe. nor would i have that kind of blind trust going into a relationship.

I think you have hit on the main key to this situation which is trust. It takes time for trust to build. Even if a sub's role is defined as "owned property", I think one would need to have absolute trust in their Master/Mistress before submitting to being given to another Master/Mistress for use.

Mistress and I have honestly never had a discussion as to whether this would be an acceptable situation. For me, that conversation is unnecessary. I have absolute trust in her. If she were to choose to temporarily give me over to someone else, I would know that she had her reasons to do so and I also trust her enough to know that she would not place me in a situation where my limits are exceeded.

No matter who one chooses to submit to, I think there is always a point where a Master's/Mistress' orders are not going to be followed when it passes someone's hard limits. But where those limits are differs with each person. No matter what, there is still some consensus that must occur between the parties as to acceptable limits within the relationship.

-heartbound

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 11:50:25 AM

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

*Sigh*... And this after someone just tried to explain that it really wasn't about 'rights', but 'permissions'. This isn't about 'personal standards'. He doesn't have that right, no matter what you told him, and no matter what he told you, regardless of the promises you have made each other, the permissions you have given him are irrelevant. I'm not even going into the legal aspect of this here, because that, too, is irrelevant.

I ask you, since you are here, why there was a need for you to even mention the termination of your life by him on these boards, since it isn't something that will happen. I am genuinely curious.

why mention it? because it is reality, part of my story, i share my story (at least parts of it) here often. for me it is a simplistic way of describing/explaining the bounds of our relationship. it is a way of explaining what is within the scope of our relationship, and what is not. it is also of great significance to me, as one who has given themselves to another in slavery, to fully understand and accept the power and control my Master has over me. i remind myself of these things daily...(and of course my Master gives a helping hand or two in his own way)...that he has the right to take my life, that i cannot refuse him, that it is not about my pleasure or happiness, etc. i am somewhat tired so cannot recall the word right now, but you are familiar with the practice of saying certain phrases to oneself daily, sort of like a mantra, in order to help maintain focus? well, that is what it is for me.

kittinSol, i have a question for you if you don't mind...why do you continually insist that my Master (or anyone's Master/Owner) does not have the right to take my life? you say that the law is irrelevant to your views on this...okay, so then where does it come from?

LaTigresse mentioned something about being "extreme." well, that is not my bag. i have no desire to be considered "extreme" although i realize that may be how some (maybe many) perceive me because of my chosen way of life. i fantasize about living in a place where my way of life and beliefs regarding male/female relations would be considered status quo, where it wouldn't stand out or raise one eyebrow. alas, that is not likely to happen.

*edited because the word just became to me..."affirmations"...yay me!

< Message edited by daddysprop247 -- 4/1/2009 11:52:37 AM >

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 11:54:54 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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FR.

I'm a *DAMN!....That Would Have Been A Limit!!!* slave. I know this because I have long list of THEM...lol

agirl

(in reply to heartbound)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 11:59:42 AM

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Is it possible thay you can smoke cigarettes all of your life and die at the ripe old age of 99 without developing a single illness that is atttributed to smoking cigs? Of course it is. By your logic everyone who smokes should have no fear of ever becoming sick.

All I am saying is that when you find a person that states they have "no-limits" there is an extreme chance that there is a pile of abuse and neglect in their past. End of story.

Hard to follow isn't it? But please continue on as to how the majority "no-limit" subs have reached this plateau based upon a completely healthy outlook. Bullshit!

domiguy,

you have been throwing your opinions around to so many in this thread, methinks you have confused me with someone else.

CP

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:02:54 PM

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the post was not meant to be directed at you. In threads of this length not always does "the reply to" actually indicate who the post is directed at.

Go with God.

_____________________________

(in reply to CelticPrince)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:07:21 PM

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Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

Her name is Randi Newton. Google her, read her blog...Do a little work for yourself. You might find that it is a gratifying experience. The end result might be that you reach the miraculous conclusion that you do possess worth and might actually consider setting some meaningful and positive boundaries for yourself.

I doubt it.

Blah blah.
My original point still stands. She is a stripper who did not come from a bad background. Hence your all strippers have bad background theory, well nothing short of proved wrong.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:09:43 PM

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Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
The trend continues here on CM wherein the new fems find the site and normally after about 30 to 60 days have found the " master" that they sought all their lives but just did not recognize their need until now. This is a mouthful CP. Breaking it down. "New fems" could mean new on CM or new to WIITWD.I have noticed those new s fems who have already been owned or taken come to CM and if they find the forum boards, they say they are new s fems but stop there, so we go on exactly what they say, later to find out they came to CM owned. That is how I came with my screen name, already owned, but I have been on CM with other screen names (which I no longer use) either given to me or as untaken/owned. I do find many divorced s fems who know enough fantasy (I am thinking of one in particular, I know their are others) and just enough to know they have been on the submissive side much of their life and realize if they find a "MASTER" they will be complete. As to the 30-60 days, ya I have noticed it. I wait till they come here slamming him for something or another and its over with in 6 months. Isn't that what LA expounds/reinforces, 6 months?
My thoughts center on expectancies on the part of these newly rewarded females or males as they have found the light and dedicated themselves to a "master"or mistress. Ah yes, expectations. I remember once and it just happens again to me, but the original story....A newly married couple wakes up the first day after their honeymoon, the groom asking for bacon and eggs and biscuits. The wife dutifully does her best in the kitchen. The groom is called to the table and his stomach turns. He was expecting scrambled eggs (she prepared over easy), really crisp bacon (she make golden brown bacon with no crisp) and english muffins (he expected biscuits which meant and gravy). I asked for a chair in a half when I went to a furniture liquidation sale, I was brought to an over stuffed beautiful red chair that would take 3 people to get my mom out of. I didn't elaborate on my expectations so he took me to what he thought I expected to see. I chalked it up to how better to communicate in the next store. They dedicate themselves to a fantasy idea of who a master should be in their thinking and forget to ask the tough questions. Who are you.
Is there a understanding that a " master"/"mistress" carries the power of ultimate right to do as he/she desires. Does the sub/slave understand that if she or he is to be loaned out to friends for sexual pleasure or any other service; that it is to be complied with. I read alot of castlerealm back in the day and submissive loving on the web and that went in one ear and out the other. I was rudely awakened. I read one of Claudia Varrin's books and got a better look at reality. Even Dominant Loving didn't tell me that the owner would whore me out and I had a choice because that was not in the initial get to know you and your desires phase.
for myself i do not think there is an awareness but i look to others for their thoughts, be yee " D " or " s" .
There is an awareness of false expectations as new s types.Men know what they want, They are the hand. And if a glove s fem type doesn't fit his hand....several choices 1. make it fit, and both are unhappy2. try for a few months and then make the choice to leave3. know the fit is wrong and say so Women want love in their relationship and men demand respect. If the man is not respected he will not show actions followed by words of love.If women do not feel loved, they don't give respect. How vital is communication?? It is like unto the very breath we breath not knowing their in a respiratory exchange going on.

CP

realsub,

there is of course some wisdom and logic to your input, but this thread has gotten out of hand so i will comment no further.
thanks for your input.

CP

(in reply to RealSub58)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:15:35 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

*Sigh*... And this after someone just tried to explain that it really wasn't about 'rights', but 'permissions'. This isn't about 'personal standards'. He doesn't have that right, no matter what you told him, and no matter what he told you, regardless of the promises you have made each other, the permissions you have given him are irrelevant. I'm not even going into the legal aspect of this here, because that, too, is irrelevant.

I'm genuinely confused by the definition of "right" your adhering to. We're talking here about any aspect of control that one person relinquishes to another.

If I can give you the "right" to drive my car home when I'm drunk, for instance, I can give "rights" to anything else that is of my own to give.

It seems to me that your chosen definition (as reflected by how "sorely" you're tempted to discuss presumed mental states of such slaves) is stitch-tied to a subjective morality. In essence, you are arguing that no one has the "right" to do anything geoculturally considered negative or illegal...which is, again, discounting whether that option has been granted by the person to whom it would apply.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:21:05 PM

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Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Her name is Randi Newton. Google her, read her blog...Do a little work for yourself. You might find that it is a gratifying experience. The end result might be that you reach the miraculous conclusion that you do possess worth and might actually consider setting some meaningful and positive boundaries for yourself.

I doubt it.

Blah blah.
My original point still stands. She is a stripper who did not come from a bad background. Hence your all strippers have bad background theory, well nothing short of proved wrong.

Continually in my posts you will see the word majority or most. It is in my post about strippers...I say the "Majority" of no-limit subs..I figured people with intelligence would realize that the word majority applies to the other groups as well.

They're are never any absolutes. As far as thinking that the intelligent people would have picked up on this use of the term "majority"...Hmmmm.

Blah, blah, blah...Go back to Gor.

It really is enough...I don't need to be shown that people that cut themselves have issues...I know it. I don't need to be shown that prostitutes come form worse environments than people that choose not to whore themselves out...I know this. I don't need to be shown the same for strippers...I know this.

Above is what you, yes you domiguy wrote. No sign of 'majority' there.

You do however go on to say the majority of no limit slaves blah blah. Doesn't really matter though considering you have dissed every no limit slave in this thread despite knowing virtually nothing about them or their lives.

I really don't know what happened to you in your hiatus from cm domiguy but i'm guessing some woman really did a number on you. I sympathise if thats the case but dn't come taking it out on me or others here. Own your own shit.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:21:34 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I have stuck on path. I have always clearly stated I am specifically referring to those subs that say that they have "no-limits"...No one else. People who have No limits you will find that the majority will have suffered some sort of neglect, trauma or abuse in their past...Got It????

If you are capable please try and stay on point. Seems to be a tedious task for you.

For crying out loud, if taking the line of your logic and applying to a wider range of targets in order to demonstrate its own fallacy is unreasonable, then you really shouldn't be discussing the topic.

Of course you are referring to only the no-limits folks, because they happen to fall into the extreme category that is easier to strawman and prod at.

You did, however (and of your own accord) lump people who have tattoos, for instance, into the same category of people who must seemingly have compromised mental states to welcome physical pain or physical abuse into their lives willingly. I specifically asked you at what point of the spectrum you were able to conclusively say one degree of pain-sluttishness is not indicative of mental instability and where the next one is, and instead of answering the question you made some grandiose declaration of 'knowing what I know' and abandoned the discussion until I was speaking to someone else.

Care to answer it now?

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 4/1/2009 12:22:23 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:25:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If I can give you the "right" to drive my car home when I'm drunk, for instance, I can give "rights" to anything else that is of my own to give.

Unfortunately for you, no. A human being is not 'anything else'. It cannot be given, or taken away, no matter how much people like to believe otherwise. The 'right' the dominant feels he has over his 'slave' is imaginary. Now, that they get off on announcing these kinds of fantasies to the world is one thing. That they expect the world to believe them is quite another.

_____________________________

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:29:01 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If I can give you the "right" to drive my car home when I'm drunk, for instance, I can give "rights" to anything else that is of my own to give.

Unfortunately for you, no. A human being is not 'anything else'. It cannot be given, or taken away, no matter how much people like to believe otherwise.

Okay, so let's stop right there.

What you are arguing then (instruct me if I'm wrong) is that an individual does not possess control over their own lives to do with as they wish? And, furthermore, one cannot (morally, again, I'm assuming) give over that control to another individual?

Ever heard of the military???

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:37:25 PM

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No, that's not what I am arguing. What I am arguing is that an individual does not have the capacity to take away another's life and claim it was their right to do so because it was given to them by the person they killed. They can argue it until they're blue in the face, it doesn't change the fact that this doesn't belong to reality.

Since we have established this, and it follows this scenario is to remain within the realm of fantasyland, I fail to see why it keeps on getting hammered back on these boards as if it were a reality. The people who claim they have relinquished their rights to another are living a dream - and in making this claim, they either seek approval from others, validation from others, or are deliberately being as extreme as they can because they get off, somehow, on the provocation, even if this is somehow subconscious on their part (pun meant).

They may claim their master has the right to take their life away. I can laugh at them and tell them there is no such thing. Nobody will be proven right, because no life will be taken. And the carousel moves on...

_____________________________

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:53:16 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

They may claim their master has the right to take their life away. I can laugh at them and tell them there is no such thing. Nobody will be proven right, because no life will be taken. And the carousel moves on...

You are right that nobody will be proven right and the whole idea of thinking you can give someone the right to take your life is ridiculous. If you were able to do this why is it that assisted suicide or assisted euthanasia is illegal (except in some forms in Washington, Oregon, Switzerland, Netherlands and Belgium). You cannot give someone the right to end your life and believe me this is something I have been investigating a lot recently.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:56:02 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No, that's not what I am arguing. What I am arguing is that an individual does not have the capacity to take away another's life and claim it was their right to do so because it was given to them by the person they killed. They can argue it until they're blue in the face, it doesn't change the fact that this doesn't belong to reality.

Of course they have the "capacity". What we're arguing is if they ought to do so. In that, we are in complete agreement. But you're throwing "reality" into the picture in haste, I think.

We could really stretch this out into a discussion of whether it is permissible to kill a human being in any circumstance and then try to find our way through the maze of which moral structures make it marginally acceptable (but, again, morality is a weird subjective creature like that)...but I'll stick to more pertinent facets of the topic.

There are three parts to this:

1) Tangible: Can an individual take another's life after verbal/written proclamation of a "right" to do so? Yes. As in...it is physically possible for those things to happen.

2) Ethical: Should an individual take another's life after verbal/written proclamation of a "right" to do so? Shit. There's not an easy answer here. For the purposes of what is commonly considered universal morality and under the expectations that almost everyone would have upon entering a relationship, I would probably say "no". But to discount the malleability of ethics before blurting out the knee-jerk answer to this is a mistake, imo.

3) Legal: Can an individual take another's life after verbal/written proclamation of a "right" to do so without legal consequence? No. At least, not in structure of any laws of most countries...although I wonder if certain countries dp allow for such a legal permission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since we have established this, and it follows this scenario is to remain within the realm of fantasyland,

Which part exactly is the fantasyland? Which part, exactly, is not humanly possible? Furthermore, which part isn't viable as a genuinely believed dynamic? If people are commonly given leeway to espouse more common metaphysical nonsensities (deities, ghosts, astral projection) without suspicion of their normal faculties, why can a delusion born of a more fantastical interaction between two people not be just as "real" for each of them? That's how human psychology works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

They may claim their master has the right to take their life away. I can laugh at them and tell them there is no such thing. Nobody will be proven right, because no life will be taken. And the carousel moves on...

You're arguing on the ground that it won't or hasn't happened? Obviously it can happen. That's as self-evident as saying that a man from Indonesia and a woman from Kansas can accidentally meet in Paris, fall in love and remain married until they each die. Whatever odds you'd want to ascribe to the potential, it is possible.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 4/1/2009 12:59:20 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:56:38 PM

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I'd disagree in that you can permit someone to end your life providing you are both willing to hold a blatant disregard for the law and face the consequences of your actions, which of course is being prosecuted.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to susie)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 12:57:23 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

You are right that nobody will be proven right and the whole idea of thinking you can give someone the right to take your life is ridiculous. If you were able to do this why is it that assisted suicide or assisted euthanasia is illegal (except in some forms in Washington, Oregon, Switzerland, Netherlands and Belgium). You cannot give someone the right to end your life and believe me this is something I have been investigating a lot recently.

Really? There is nowhere on the planet where one person is given the legal right to end the life of another?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to susie)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 1:00:58 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

You are right that nobody will be proven right and the whole idea of thinking you can give someone the right to take your life is ridiculous. If you were able to do this why is it that assisted suicide or assisted euthanasia is illegal (except in some forms in Washington, Oregon, Switzerland, Netherlands and Belgium). You cannot give someone the right to end your life and believe me this is something I have been investigating a lot recently.

Really? There is nowhere on the planet where one person is given the legal right to end the life of another?

Read what I wrote. Or would you like me to repeat? Assisted suicide or assisted euthanasia is illegal (except in some forms in Washington, Oregon, Switzerland, The Netherlands and Belgium)

Sorry I thought it was quite clear!

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 1:11:03 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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How about people just talk to each other about the things they like doing, things they hate to do and things they really never want to encounter?.....and abandon the really, rather redundant word....*limits*.

I've never actually had a discussion about limits with M and we've manage quite nicely with LOTS of language rather than ONE, really, inadequate word.

Make it work if you use it. Or just talk.

agirl

(in reply to CelticPrince)

RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 1:23:57 PM

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But then, what would people argue about!?!?!?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to agirl)

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