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RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 1:29:07 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

But then, what would people argue about!?!?!?


Probably whether it was the *done thing* to wear sky-blue-knickers-with-pink-spots-on. It's *limitless* ............LOL

agirl

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 1:54:27 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If I can give you the "right" to drive my car home when I'm drunk, for instance, I can give "rights" to anything else that is of my own to give.



Unfortunately for you, no. A human being is not 'anything else'. It cannot be given, or taken away, no matter how much people like to believe otherwise. The 'right' the dominant feels he has over his 'slave' is imaginary. Now, that they get off on announcing these kinds of fantasies to the world is one thing. That they expect the world to believe them is quite another.


kittinSol, would you mind answering the question i posed to you earlier? and why do you insist on referring to something that is the reality of one's life or relationship as "imaginary" or "fantasy?"

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:01:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hello, my name is tazzy and im a woman with limits!

nice to meet you agirl!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 363
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:05:31 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Sorry I thought it was quite clear!


Actually, it's not clear at all. You said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

... the whole idea of thinking you can give someone the right to take your life is ridiculous.


and

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

You cannot give someone the right to end your life...


But then you say it is possible and legal in: "in some forms in Washington, Oregon, Switzerland, The Netherlands and Belgium".

Unless you are morally condemning those places when they do permit it, I'm bewildered by the contradiction.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:08:28 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If I can give you the "right" to drive my car home when I'm drunk, for instance, I can give "rights" to anything else that is of my own to give.



Unfortunately for you, no. A human being is not 'anything else'. It cannot be given, or taken away, no matter how much people like to believe otherwise. The 'right' the dominant feels he has over his 'slave' is imaginary. Now, that they get off on announcing these kinds of fantasies to the world is one thing. That they expect the world to believe them is quite another.


kittinSol, would you mind answering the question i posed to you earlier? and why do you insist on referring to something that is the reality of one's life or relationship as "imaginary" or "fantasy?"



Because (unless I'm gravely mistaken) she's presuming that reality to be a form of delusion.

For the sake of the discussion, I even gave her that point...and then asked her to explain the difference in validity of more commonly accepted delusions (which people are entitled to, if it makes them happy) and this presumed fantasy.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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Profile   Post #: 365
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:09:12 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartbound

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i am not one that would agree going into a relationship to be shared.  my reasons are pratical, medically i dont feel it is safe.  nor would i have that kind of blind trust going into a relationship. 



I think you have hit on the main key to this situation which is trust.   It takes time for trust to build.  Even if a sub's role is defined as "owned property", I think one would need to have absolute trust in their Master/Mistress before submitting to being given to another Master/Mistress for use.

Mistress and I have honestly never had a discussion as to whether this would be an acceptable situation.  For me, that conversation is unnecessary.  I have absolute trust in her.  If she were to choose to temporarily give me over to someone else, I would know that she had her reasons to do so and I also trust her enough to know that she would not place me in a situation where my limits are exceeded.

No matter who one chooses to submit to, I think there is always a point where a Master's/Mistress' orders are not going to be followed when it passes someone's hard limits.  But where those limits are differs with each person.  No matter what, there is still some consensus that must occur between the parties as to acceptable limits within the relationship. 

-heartbound


i firmly believe with enough time and trust, even the most hard core submissive clinging to her limits can and will become a slave to the person who gains their complete trust.  and someone who has proven they place your welfare over their own kinks is well on their way to gaining that trust.

i never said it was wrong to be shared, merely not healthy.  only because how do you know who that person has been with?  and who they have been with?  ect ect ect.  and condoms break.  sad fact of life.  now, if im to be given to someone for play, without intercourse or exchange of body fluids, except maybe a bit of sweat and alot of tears, then im all for it!  when it is involved, then i would have expected my owner to have me tested, and them tested, and think really hard and long about the outcomes of the session.

trust takes time, depending on the issue.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to heartbound)
Profile   Post #: 366
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:09:30 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Sorry I thought it was quite clear!


Actually, it's not clear at all. You said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

... the whole idea of thinking you can give someone the right to take your life is ridiculous.


and

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

You cannot give someone the right to end your life...


But then you say it is possible and legal in: "in some forms in Washington, Oregon, Switzerland, The Netherlands and Belgium".

Unless you are morally condemning those places when they do permit it, I'm bewildered by the contradiction.



There is a huge difference between assisted euthanasia and what is being talked about on this thread. I am sorry if you can't see that.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 367
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:17:34 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

There is a huge difference between assisted euthanasia and what is being talked about on this thread. I am sorry if you can't see that.


That's a cop-out second sentence. How about you not be sorry and provide some explanation for you thoughts?

Okay...the two are dissimilar because euthanasia is a relinquishing of life with the expectation of the other person ending it. No-limits relationships are actually not that, so, yes, you're correct.

However, we had deconstructed the discussion to getting to the basic premise of: a) if it can be legally, ethically or physically possible to surrender control of your life to someone else. Obviously, it is possible on all three fronts depending on where you are.

So, instead of being sorry how about explaining why you think it should be less permissible in one situation (no-limit relationship) than another (euthanasia)? Unless you think it shouldn't be permissible at all, under any circumstance, and that anyone who would wish that for themselves be shoved into the loony box, as other have suggested?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:22:14 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think you have hit on the main key to this situation which is trust.   It takes time for trust to build.  Even if a sub's role is defined as "owned property", I think one would need to have absolute trust in their Master/Mistress before submitting to being given to another Master/Mistress for use.


Not to derail the sub-topic you have here, but it brings up a key point, I think.

You both are arguing if/when there is a point at which trustworthiness merits surrendering the potential to be shared. So, at some point we would agree that someone can be trustworthy enough for us to release our sexual proclivities and control to.

Is there, then, a point at which someone is trustworthy enough to merit control of our lives?





< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 4/1/2009 2:23:14 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 369
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:40:18 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

There is a huge difference between assisted euthanasia and what is being talked about on this thread. I am sorry if you can't see that.


That's a cop-out second sentence. How about you not be sorry and provide some explanation for you thoughts?

Okay...the two are dissimilar because euthanasia is a relinquishing of life with the expectation of the other person ending it. No-limits relationships are actually not that, so, yes, you're correct.

However, we had deconstructed the discussion to getting to the basic premise of: a) if it can be legally, ethically or physically possible to surrender control of your life to someone else. Obviously, it is possible on all three fronts depending on where you are.

So, instead of being sorry how about explaining why you think it should be less permissible in one situation (no-limit relationship) than another (euthanasia)? Unless you think it shouldn't be permissible at all, under any circumstance, and that anyone who would wish that for themselves be shoved into the loony box, as other have suggested?



In the places I mentioned proof has to be given that the person being assisted is either terminally ill or has no expectation of a reasonable standard of life. So are you saying that someone in a no limits relationship falls under those criteria?

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 370
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:48:49 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

So are you saying that someone in a no limits relationship falls under those criteria?


No, I was asking you to define your criteria for acceptable surrender of life. Which we appear to have here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

In the places I mentioned proof has to be given that the person being assisted is either terminally ill or has no expectation of a reasonable standard of life.


So how do you excuse military duty, then? Particularly at war-time?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:53:37 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut
Show me in this thread where anyone has claimed a no limits slave is the slaviest or the uber slave and i'll run down my street naked.


*snort* Two things. First, read Mercnbeth's posts very carefully: you'll see it's heavily implied that the relationship without limits is more intimate and involves superior confidence and self-knowledge on the part of the dominant and superior trust and deeper surrender on the part of the submissive. Ergo No Limits Relationships are those between the Domliest Dom and the Slaveiest Slave.

Two: I'll be the first to sign up for the streaming video of you running down the street naked.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 372
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 2:57:44 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		Folks, if you find you're having trouble making your point without resorting to personal attacks or flaming, please reconsider participation in the thread before it's necessary for someone else to make that decision for you.

As you were.

XI


_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 373
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:01:56 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think you have hit on the main key to this situation which is trust.   It takes time for trust to build.  Even if a sub's role is defined as "owned property", I think one would need to have absolute trust in their Master/Mistress before submitting to being given to another Master/Mistress for use.


Not to derail the sub-topic you have here, but it brings up a key point, I think.

You both are arguing if/when there is a point at which trustworthiness merits surrendering the potential to be shared. So, at some point we would agree that someone can be trustworthy enough for us to release our sexual proclivities and control to.

Is there, then, a point at which someone is trustworthy enough to merit control of our lives?






ok, let me put a bit of my history here, so, maybe that will help.  i did at one time turn everything over to a man.  i ended up sleeping on the streets while he slept in his wife's bed.  i was allowed to go use his shower after she went to work.  my money was his money.

my limits were his limits, and my life was in danger.  this wasnt in some sleepy city, this was outside of LA.

i believe someone can lose all their own, personal limits for someone they trust.  i did, i trusted wrongly.  i thought i was being a "good slave girl".  what i was being was a fool.

when we speak of no limit slavery, everyone wants to post about how happy and healthy their relationships are.  no one wants to discuss the potential problems, the pitfalls, the dangers of this kind of relationship.  and when someone brings it up, they all become up in arms... "thats not how it is with me"

i almost deleted this post.  no one likes to admit when they made a wrong choice in the person controlling their lives.  but, i figure its time we stopped glamourizing it.  yes, im happy Merc and beth have a wonderful relationship, as i am happy the other girls do too.

now, how about giving thought to what you all would do if your relationships werent so happy.  let the people who are new to the concepts see the potential problems they could face.  then explain  how your relationships are different.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 374
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:03:13 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Depends on where you live. Some states in the US do not allow the right for someone to consent to assault and battery. This is mainly due to Domestic Violence laws, but they can be used in situations such as BDSM. Some states allow exceptions for what is consider competition events, such as boxing, MMA, etc. but I believe there has to be a contract signed and licensed gain for those events.

At least here in Georgia, if the police came to your home, saw marks of any kind on your slave/sub, they could and actually by law must arrest someone. The charges would be brought by the State. Likely the case would be dropped because the slave/sub would be a reluctant witness, but the laws are still in place.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Spanking between consenting adults isn't illegal. Murder is.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 375
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:04:06 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama


quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut
Show me in this thread where anyone has claimed a no limits slave is the slaviest or the uber slave and i'll run down my street naked.


*snort* Two things. First, read Mercnbeth's posts very carefully: you'll see it's heavily implied that the relationship without limits is more intimate and involves superior confidence and self-knowledge on the part of the dominant and superior trust and deeper surrender on the part of the submissive. Ergo No Limits Relationships are those between the Domliest Dom and the Slaveiest Slave.

Two: I'll be the first to sign up for the streaming video of you running down the street naked.


Hmm well all i see is someone explaining what works for them. They aren't saying it should work for everyone or that it makes them any better than anyone else.
I see the same in your posts as you see in theirs. I see you as coming across as 'im better than anyone else', and you know what hell yes you have the right to that opinion if you want to have it and that is why i have only addressed points such as not all hired out slaves are disease ridden. I haven't attacked your right to say you would never do it and disagree with it. The world would be a pretty boring place if we were all the same.
 
And hee hee there will be no video streaming

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 376
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:09:33 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

kittinSol, i have a question for you if you don't mind...why do you continually insist that my Master (or anyone's Master/Owner) does not have the right to take my life? you say that the law is irrelevant to your views on this...okay, so then where does it come from?



You have answered your own question: he doesn't have the right to take your life away legally, but that is irrelevant because he will not take your life away. He doesn't have the right to take your life away morally, but that is also irrelevant, for the very same reason. The legality or illegality of this is irrelevant to my opinion on the subject because, in the end, you will remain alive independently from him, but still under the illusion that you have relinquished your right to exert power over your own life... when in fact, you clearly haven't. It's all hypothetical and fantasy-based, but all the more power to you if it makes you happy.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 377
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:11:19 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

now, how about giving thought to what you all would do if your relationships werent so happy.  let the people who are new to the concepts see the potential problems they could face.  then explain  how your relationships are different


I can only speak for myself here because i don't remember what others said in that much detail, but i have never denied that relationships like i have can be extremely dangerous, as you highlighted in your post.
Having said that do we highlight the dangers of everything we talk about in posts? No we don't, we assume that people have the brains to work out that there can be side effects, possible dangers etc in what we do.
 
Unfortunately no limits is a flamey topic. I don't know why really. We don't tell owned subs / slaves they are only fantasising because noone has the RIGHT to own them.
We don't always speak about the dangers of meeting a new dom when talking about our first meets.
 
Why should we automatically therefore say how dangerous no limits can be?
Why should we be relegated to the fantasy world?

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:13:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

Why should we be relegated to the fantasy world?


explain this please

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: The Power or " Right" - 4/1/2009 3:18:23 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Her name is Randi Newton.  Google her, read her blog...Do a little work for yourself.  You might find that it is a gratifying experience.  The end result might be that you reach the miraculous conclusion that you do possess worth and might actually consider setting some meaningful and positive boundaries for yourself.

I doubt it.


Blah blah.
My original point still stands. She is a stripper who did not come from a bad background. Hence your all strippers have bad background theory, well nothing short of proved wrong.
 


Blah, blah ,blah...Even in my stripper thread I refered to the "majority" of no-limit subs....I figured that most people would reach the conclusion that in my posts I am referring to the majority of people that comprise these groups.

Strippers always come from ideal backgrounds, tremendous education, surrounded by people who love and support them...Never any self esteem issues.

you are once again correct!!!!  Strippers should be running the P.T.A.

The Majority of them come from extremely fucked up cricumstances...Sabe?

There are no absolutes...Got it?

_____________________________



(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 380
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