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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/28/2006 11:19:10 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
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There's Low-Income and then there is.... I look like I have
a lot of money but really I'm in credit card debt for the rest
of my life up to my ears. The ole Rob Peter to Pay Paul kind of thing.

Personally I would rather live clean month to month, (well maybe I would really like to have tons of money without plastic) know what's coming in, what's going out, I guess I could say I like ritual somewhat.


*Brightspot

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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/28/2006 11:33:24 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


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This may sound totally unromantic and selfish, but I wouldn't get myself into a long term relationship with someone who could not take care of themselves financially. I definitely don't mind working (in fact, I enjoy it immensely), but I want my partner to be fully functioning in the workforce as well.

Of course, I was looking for more than a D/s relationship, but someone I could spend my life with.

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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/28/2006 11:44:48 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I find it very interesting that this whole thread has been about low-income doms, and no one has mentioned low-income DOMMES.

As usual, we don't seem to be getting very far beyond the idea of the male as provider for the female.


How right you are LaM. I deliberately headed the thread Low Income Dominants and yes I know a few low income Dommes too. I know they have as hard a time as I do but like us we all get through just have to run a tight budget and go without the odd treat like wayching special events on cable TV if other bills like Electricity or Gas (every quater) arrives on the door. No hardship and we are never threatened with either being shut down. The worst senario is that we cay on our next pay day and lose the rebate we'd normally get. There a few of us who help each other out and are all in much the same boat but not all are in the lifestyle. I'd be curious if the comments would be different for Low Income Dommes.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/28/2006 11:45:22 PM >


_____________________________

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 12:33:54 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

This may sound totally unromantic and selfish, but I wouldn't get myself into a long term relationship with someone who could not take care of themselves financially. I definitely don't mind working (in fact, I enjoy it immensely), but I want my partner to be fully functioning in the workforce as well.

Of course, I was looking for more than a D/s relationship, but someone I could spend my life with.


There is a big difference in saying what "YOU" find compatiable and acceptable in a Partner (Dominant, Switch, Submissive or whatever) and saying that a person is some how less by the numbers in there bank account and shouldn't be partnered up with anyone.

I do agree that security - physical and emotional are very important. and financial is only one small part in the whole picture. That is judge individually for each individual for their relationship choices and not some standard that should apply to everyone. What you need and what I need can be very different... but WHO the hell am I or anyone to tell you how much your Dominant should make to be your Dominant.

LAM makes an excellent point.. there really appears to be a huge double standard on the part of financial responsibility between Male Dominants as compared to Female Dominants. No one gives second thought of a FemDom living off the financial providing of the Male sub... but the other way... and I have heard all to often different derogatory words being cast in the persons direction of the Male Dominant. Frankly, the dollars that is brought into the house is irrelevant to everyone except those in that specific relationship! If the Well-being of those in the relationship are cared for to THEiR satisfaction, then who the hell is anyone else to question if it is wrong or not.

I am one of these individuals that is very financial secure.... my finances are equal to the combined incomes of most double income families... But I am far from any better of a Dominant than anyone with a lesser paycheck. I find the whole idea that Dominants as a whole should live up to some financial standard as completely and totally repugnant.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 1/29/2006 12:34:42 AM >


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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 1:47:32 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
Maybe I'm in the mood to get flamed.


Sorry to disapoint then because I'm hoping this won't come over as a flame, its certainly not how it is intended. Just a diffrent PoV

I used to be toward the other end of the scale, money was far from being a problem and yes my first primary had a similar attitude to the one you described. She admited herself she had "Golddigger" tendencys (In conversations long after we split, not during) and it was one of my reasons for eventualy ending the relationship. I didn't like not being able to tell who was more important to her, me or my wallet. I didn't blame her we simply grew in diffrent directions.

Life throws a curveball every now and then and I'm now well under the radar for anyone of that mentality. Not a great deal comming in but no debts either and guess what.... I still have fun, in fact in many ways more fun than I used to. Why pay a small fortune to eat in the resteraunt of some TV chef when I enjoy cooking and can produce comparable results. I never have any problem booking a candle-lit table for two thats for sure.

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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 4:00:08 AM   
FelinePersuasion


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RM that's so true, like my mom wants to go out to the movies and have dad spend 24 dollars on two tickets and then 10 bucks on snacks to sit in a theather that's not even comfortable with People who'll be yacking or some distraction through out the whole movie, and for 24 dollars I could of rented about 15 movies, bought a thing of popcorn and sacked out with my love on our couch and had a better time than at the movies. She gets exasperated with me cause ev erytime she wants to see a movie as a family or something I tell her I'd rather wait the month it takes for it to come out on tape and see it at home instead of spending the 8 bucks a pop for a movie that might suck and you can't even get comfortable during the movie..


quote:

I still have fun, in fact in many ways more fun than I used to. Why pay a small fortune to eat in the resteraunt of some TV chef when I enjoy cooking and can produce comparable results. I never have any problem booking a candle-lit table for two thats for sure.


< Message edited by FelinePersuasion -- 1/29/2006 4:01:46 AM >

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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 5:19:58 AM   
MHOO314


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Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aurora31

For me while having a potential Dom who is comfortable is a plus it is not a necessity. I have struggeled all my life to make ends meet so it would be nothing new for me. Rather I tend to look at what he does with what he has. Does he live responsiblly with in his means? What takes priorty in his life, the big sporting event or food on the table? To me those things say so much more about someones true character then the amout of their yearly income does.

aurora


I agree with aurora---

I am a strong believer that you cannot be responsible for another if you don't have your life in order--this does not mean One has to be wealthy--but they cannot always live with the wolves at the door---today in our society 80% of the middle class live one paycheck from bankruptcy (no savingsto speak of) --so- to expect that most Dominants are financially wealthy--is IMHO not realistic---BUT they must be responsible---the wolves aren't always at the door.


< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 1/29/2006 5:20:28 AM >


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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 5:24:17 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

There's Low-Income and then there is.... I look like I have
a lot of money but really I'm in credit card debt for the rest
of my life up to my ears. The ole Rob Peter to Pay Paul kind of thing.

Personally I would rather live clean month to month, (well maybe I would really like to have tons of money without plastic) know what's coming in, what's going out, I guess I could say I like ritual somewhat.


*Brightspot



Well said! That is My deep feeling too, come January, we didn't go through sticker shock from holiday spending because of credit card bills---we don't do plastic- we use green-- if we don't have, we don't do.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 5:44:47 AM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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That's why when I retired due to injury and illness the first thing I do was to cut up my Gold Amex card and another platinum one. I work with one debit card now which is fine for what I need it for.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/29/2006 5:45:12 AM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 5:44:48 AM   
LadiesBladewing


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Fiscal responsibility is an important part of being an owner. However, fiscal responsibility does -not- mean being rich, and it makes sense to me that individuals in a household would all contribute to the general well-being of that household.

It is important to look at the background behind a particular situation. Waste, carelessness with money, inability to budget, and a frivolous attitude towards finances are not things that would lend themselves to the responsibilities of taking care of another human being -- I don't care if one is considering a servant, a child or a spouse.

At the same time, circumstances happen. Perhaps an individual is in debt because he or she is paying for school, and did not qualify for financial assistance so is paying it off over time on his or her own. Perhaps there are medical expenses not covered by insurance. Perhaps there was a business that didn't pan out, and rather than file bankruptcy, the individual is taking responsibility and paying off the debts incurred.

It is a nice goal to look for that place where money becomes a non-issue, but finances are energy, and are fluid. What is crucial is whether or not the individual has a right relationship with money energy. Is he or she aware of responsibilities, careful to manage those as best possible, is any financial stress temporary and is the proper diligence being applied to resolve the matter, and is the dominant willing to be honest and frank about his or her financial situation?

Everyone in our household is expected to contribute to the household. All of us work -- and a the moment, all of us work outside of our main domicile. We don't see that changing for us any time soon, and frankly, I see myself working in my field of choice (pastoral care/life guidance and lecturing on relationship and alternative lifestyle issues) until the day that I keel over dead, with a huge smile on my face as my life work absorbed me for all of my days. Lady SilverRose is also looking forward to the opportunity to work as a homeopath for the rest of -her- days. We are fiscally responsible, but are not, and may never be, wealthy. However, we have an outstanding relationship with money, and understand the responsibilities of fiscal management. No-one in our care will go hungry or without shelter. If we were worried about those things, we would certainly not want to take on additional responsibilities, and while things may be tight at times for us, there is never a question as to whether needs will be able to be met -- even if the occasional luxury or extra might not happen. We are also somewhat "minimalist", and prefer to live frugally now, even though it might not look as attractive and we may not have the fancy house/apartment and flashing "things" that entice so many, while we save and prepare for the things we really -do- want (right now, we are saving for a new house, and have specific requirements including a kitchen where I can do the cooking that I so love, and a separate office for SilverRose and myself where we can see clients in peace and comfort, and in an atmosphere that promotes healing.) In exchange, we are living frugally, because truthfully, we would prefer to save, live cautiously and without frills, and be able to find just the right place on the best possible terms -- terms that we helped shape by our own efforts and responsbilities.

If a dominant is willing to be forthright, and is clear about his or her fiscal situation -- and is in the position to be able to bear the weight of another mouth to feed, another responsibility to manage, and another fiscal "string" to weave into the family's web, then I don't think that the -amount- of money should be a consideration.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I’ll agree that this is an ideal scenario for sub/slaves to enter into as it indicates the possibility of greater security which may be what they require especially if they have been through the mill financially. What about the other end of the spectrum then?

The Dominants with little income who live on the financial edge or have little money to play with?

Those who sometimes (usually dependent on bill time) have to scrimp and scrape to pay the bills and have money left over for food?

In their situation as long as they are not about to be made homeless, should they be cast aside by the majority of the lifestyle?

Do their character, experience and good name as a sensible and safe Dominant count for nothing?

In other words, is there a financial level in which we as a lifestyle turn our backs and try to forget that they exist?

What say you Dominants and what say you sub/slaves?



< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 1/29/2006 5:52:17 AM >


_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 5:53:01 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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One thing I have noticed is that everyone appears to assume that a relationship will be 24/7 live in. Any who read my profile on the other side of collarene (I've revamped it), will see that I've specifically stated that a 24/7 live in relationship is not on the cards for some time. Thus the thoughts regarding taking responsibility for caring financially for another is not applicable. I've always stated, that unless there is a radical turnablut in my fiscal situation, anybody living with us will need to be either working or a student and will need to assist in a small portion of rent and a share of food and other main costs (Phone, internet, power and gas) however it still works out at about half of what they would be paying for even a cheep flat in our area. Neets and I can take care of most of the things but we would be struggling on the food area with our assistance. It is part of the discussions we would be having when some one wanted to be with us.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:01:25 AM   
FTopinMichigan


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In my youth, I thought money was everything. I don't think much of money now, except as a means to pay the necessary bills, and enjoy a few luxuries now and then. I'm just recently unemployed again, and it's going to be tough, to get by, but I will, as I always do. I own my home (paid cash), and my only outstanding bill is a student loan from going to college late in life. I do okay....I get by.

What I have issue with is more that someone will be "cheap." You can be without tons of money, and still enjoy life.

As an example, I went out with man (in my younger years) that always came over just in time to be late to the event we were going to enjoy. Then he's say, "why don't we just stay here" (which actually meant "why don't we stay here so you can make me dinner and I won't have to take you out"). He usually said he wasn't hungry when we went out, and then ate off of my plate (especially when I was paying the bill). He would take bread and butter from the basket at restaurants for use at home. He made "tomato soup" out of ketchup. (no kidding)

Another one that worked a rather high paying job, but was in school and paying child support, would always come out with the gang and drink a draft. When the round of drinks was where someone else to payed, he would have an expensive drink along with an imported beer. When it was his turn, he'd go back to the draft. He even took toilet paper from work, and bragged about it.

Fortunately, my taste in men evolved. I have met men that have no money, but they treat me like a queen.

I just expect a man to be able to care for himself (and his family), and would never expect him to financially care for me. I also do not expect to financially care for him.

K

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:06:54 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
One thing I have noticed is that everyone appears to assume that a relationship will be 24/7 live in. Any who read my profile on the other side of collarene (I've revamped it), will see that I've specifically stated that a 24/7 live in relationship is not on the cards for some time.


I've noticed that too, whilst I could just about sustain it (I did the calculations a few years back to see if I could cover everything when my now ex-wife was considering taking a year or too out from working in order to see if she could make a career from writting) it isn't what I'm looking for either.

I'm not activly looking till after I move into the new flat, but have been working on what I'll be changing my profile to at that time. It starts "Firstly, I am NOT looking for 24/7 IF I end up in such it will be a natural development with someone I have built a relationship and trust with over months or even years."

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:07:05 AM   
sweetwhisper


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i don't care about a person's wealth, or lack thereof....as long as they're hard workers and are able to support themselves.. i never looked for a rich Master, but i did turn down a handful that were living with mom & dad because they weren't able to support themselves, and one whom still lived with his ex wife because he couldn't afford a place of his own - i was a single parent, and was able to live on my own and support myself, i expect any adult i am with to do the same. So, imho, it is important, he doesn't have to be "rich" but at least have his shit together.

_____________________________

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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:07:10 AM   
LadiesBladewing


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I would have to disagree, IronBear. I think that if one is going to take on the responsibiltiy of a servant, even one that isn't living in-house 24/7, one must still be both aware of and have a measure of responsibility for the fiscal health of both oneself and that individual.

There are also still fiscal responsibilities that come along with even a part-time servant, including feeding him or her, providing training tools and resources, recreation expenses... though they are smaller in a part-time relationship (and this is one of the things that is discussed when discussing what relationship a servant will have with the owners), these things are still in place.

It is also important for a servant, who may be struggling to maintain responsibility for his or her finances, to know that he or she can turn to the owner to have good, knowledgeable and responsible help in managing that which he or she is struggling with.

We have 1 part-time servant and a spiritual acolyte at the moment, neither of whom lives full-time with us. We are working towards a communal situation (co-housing would be ideal, as our spiritual novitiate is married but having her, her husband and her younglings closer by would be awesome. Our servant will be joining us in our home once she has settled some external responsibilities... which is why full-time relationships can take substantial time to prepare for!) Even though they don't live with us, we still consider that our fiscal responsibility does not end with us, but incorporates them, since even though they do not live with us, they are family and we have taken on their lives when we claimed them as ours.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

One thing I have noticed is that everyone appears to assume that a relationship will be 24/7 live in. Any who read my profile on the other side of collarene (I've revamped it), will see that I've specifically stated that a 24/7 live in relationship is not on the cards for some time. Thus the thoughts regarding taking responsibility for caring financially for another is not applicable.


_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.

Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:11:44 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Then M'Lady Zephyr,

Mayhap we may agree to disagree on our difference in how we see this? For 'tis sure that there are few things that we will disagree about, or so it seems to me.

My respect to your Home and yours...

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/29/2006 6:12:36 AM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:24:23 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Then M'Lady Zephyr,

Mayhap we may agree to disagree on our difference in how we see this? For 'tis sure that there are few things that we will disagree about, or so it seems to me.

My respect to your Home and yours...


And ours to you and yours, and warm blessings to Neets, IronBear.

It is a spice to discourse to have that point at which one must agree to disagree. *smiles*

LZ

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.

Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 6:55:51 AM   
Sunshine119


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I would have to vote in favor of the positions already stated here that a Dom/me should be fiscally responsible before trying to take on the added responsibility of a submissive. The very definition of Dom/me for me is one who does the "controlling".

If the Dom/me showed that he/she was unable to even control his/her own finances, I would be concerned that they were not what they appeared to be. Now, this does not speak to the idea of how much money he/she should have, just what they do with it.

I am a socialist and believe that income shouldn't be based on how much intelligence you have been bestowed upon by our creator. You've done nothing to earn your intelligence, so why should you be compensated more because you have it?
That said, it still seems to me that a Dominant should be able to show that they live within their means and have control over other aspects of their lives as well.

A Dom/me who is disabled and still living within his/her means is still showing that they are the ones in control of their own lives. A Dom/me who does not work and can't pay his/her own bills shouldn't be looking for a submissive to take care of them financially, as the power then shifts to the one who is actually "taking care of" the other....in this case the submissive. So then the Dom/me "needs" the submissive and the power balance changes.


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RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 7:29:50 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
What say you Dominants and what say you sub/slaves?


As usual it depends on the situation.

However. I do expect a partner to balance "seeking their bliss" with "being a financially independent adult."

Life always throws us curves, losing a job, losing a partner, a sudden illness, suddenly money and standards of living go out of whack. But those should be temporary states, not an ongoing state.

While I don't need trips to new countries every week, a basic and comfortable stable life that goes along with being a competent adult is important to me.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Low Income Dominants. - 1/29/2006 7:48:09 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
Money doesnt make the person, a person makes the person and sometmes money undoes the person. Money is a button of mine. i've lived and seen all sides of the coin. To be honest, i come from money. For example my little sister on a school trip went to the Alps. Over the holidays my father sponsored and completely footed the bill for 18 family members to take a cruise for 10 nights. My little cousin is a spoiled brat, she has shoes that cost 500, a pair of old jeans that cost her a 100 and all her friends for their 17th birthdays recieved jetta's. They live up in Potomac Mills Maryland. (if anyones heard of it). For xmas, my father gave me a 500 dollar digital camera and my stepmother gave me a 600 dollar or so prada bag. i come from what you would call "alot of money" and i was raised in the upper classes.

But being an inquisitive person i wanted to see "life" All of life. Not just life through green coloured glasses. i've lived parts of my life in the lowest income parts of town. Why? cos i wanted too. i've friends that live in trailer parks, friends that barely scrap by, friends that are considered "lower class" And heck, i lived right along side of them.

i have learned ALOT when it comes to upper class, lower class, and middle class and money. Its a major pet peeve of mine = ) Money is merely that money. It provides nice THINGS. Thats it folks, things. Granted nice things, but just that. The important things in life, money CAN NOT buy.

Yet so many ppl use the amount of money a person has to judge them. They let it define others. Upper class looks at lower class an sneers, lower class looks at upper class and sneers. Its disgusting. Everyone is judging everyone, because of the size of the bank account. What ever happened to honesty, and morals and intelligence and so on?

But this is a problem that has been going on for centuries. Most walk by a bum and sneer. thinking the homeless person is on the street because they either A) do drugs, B) drink to much, or C) are lazy. Not many wonder excatly WHY or HOW. they just judge.

You know, when i was on that cruise there was a group from Mexico. Went out drinking one night and i kneed one of them in the nuts. Its generally a more drastic measure for me. i vaguely remember the guy saying "dont you know who i am" LOL and i was like Nope and if you touch me there again, i'll knee you in the nuts again!

Point is, scum comes in all shapes, sizes, colours and bank accounts. Personally a person's bank account tells me absolutely NOTHING about the person.

And folks, just as alittle note. Class, actually having class, has absolutely NOTHING to do with money either.

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 60
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