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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/17/2009 11:03:43 AM

RavenMuse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I have bolded the important part (to me) in your post.
We see people complain that their partner can't do one specific thing well and therefore they are going to move on. What they don't realize is that their next partner may well be good at action A but not competent at action B. With this attitude they will constantly be disappointed and be lying to the sub of the week because they never say this upfront.

When we first got together, I was highly multiple orgasmic. Menopause has removed that ability from me. Is he going to kick me to the curb because I can't do this anymore? No, even though he misses it as do I. He no longer has the option of tying me down and making me cum till I beg him to stop but to get rid of me for something that isn't my fault would be wrong when he claims my value to him is far more than just sex playmate.

To Me the specific actions are mostly unimportant, the submission, the draw to please, the fact that I inspire her to give 100% of what she is capable of giving.... THAT is the important bit.

My girl can not FAIL a task if she gives it her all and tries her best to compleate it, she can mearly not succeed. But on the flip side, if something is done half hartedly, if she coasts, if she has the wrong attitude then she can not succeed even if the task is compleated. It is her submission that makes the difference, the lack of a specific action would just be worked around, the lack of submission however ends the relationship.

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/17/2009 7:08:18 PM

greeneyedreamer

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quote:

Its like saying 'ya know what? the woman is an amazing conversationalist, she's intelligent, deep, thoughtful, caring, kinky,loving, understanding but she can't polish my shoes right and therefore she has to go'.
When I look at these posts I can't help but shake my head at the shallowness. It gives submission no depth and appears to me that these people are just playing silly games and are not looking for anything deeper than an Gucci handbag.

Am I alone with these thoughts or do others feel like me?

Your reply assumes that the Dominant has any of these qualities or at bare minimum can identify them. Many are shallow, lack intelligence, - depth is something that is only in the ocean to them! (snickers) And yes, they play silly games, because that's all they can do. Shame, isn't it? I am happy I am no longer seeking anyone and have found someone who can identify those characteristics in me and has more of them than anyone I know.

< Message edited by greeneyedreamer -- 4/17/2009 7:26:56 PM >

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Post #: 82

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/21/2009 7:19:09 PM

Redoubt

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Okay - I skimmed through a lot of the posts, so I apologize if this has already been said (and also ^5 to the poster for sharing ;) )

Far too often do I see the: "I like ropes, whips and chains" "I like them too!" "you DO!! OMG lets get married" approach.

Just because we share the same interests does not mean we share all of them... and in some instances, because it's so rushed - dumping each other's asses IS the right thing to do.

If you find, some indeterminate way into the relationship, that one person's desires and wishes aren't compatible with the others then both of you are to blame for not doing the homework before you both decided you were a couple.

subs/slaves - if you've accepted a collar prior to knowing all your dominants/masters desires, fantasies and wishes to the point that it's a make or break situation, he's either lied to you, or you took the collar too soon. If he lied - that's a pretty damn good reason to kick his ass to the curb... if you took the collar too soon, then it's your problem... either figure out a compromise or kiss his ass to the curb and then next time go slower and softer.

Dominants/Masters - if your sub/slave is not adhering to your wishes then either she lied or you weren't up front about them... so you either compromise or kick her ass to the curb.

Yes - attraction at knowing you're compatible at a level that most normal people wouldn't understand is intoxicating - but ask yourself this - if it was a friend of yours in your situation, would you let them proceed willy nilly?

sometimes a break and a reboot is EXACTLY what's needed. Other times, if the foundation is strong - don't demolish - just ... explore an option or two to remodel

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/21/2009 7:44:45 PM

littlebitxxx

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Whether it had been said above or not....wise words. Thank you for the reminders, Redoubt.

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/22/2009 9:46:35 AM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

...I actually learned that through being a slave. My value to him based on what he determined value needed and will need to exceed (if i become a slave again) what he determined as his cost of keeping me around lol. Many don't like seeing it that way because it does many times put the determination fully in the one in control's hands...

...the problem is the slave or even sub has to be listening and not believing they are indispensible which will allow them to try and determine their own value to their owner. ...

Thanks for sharing this.

When I read your first posts on the subject, I thought that your "cost/value" analysis amounted to : in an M/s relationship, the owner simply wants a lot out of it without having to put much into it.

I saw that the 'value' part was shifted somewhat with emphasis added on certain results, but it seemed like the cost part of the equasion was simply greatly reduced - or ignored.

But perhaps the cost part is simply re-interpretted? As in, it involves supporting the slave financially, perhaps ...? Or other?

I guess I'm just curious about what you see the cost as being to the owner in such an arrangement.

Don't mean to sound judgmental - just confused.

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Post #: 85

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/22/2009 2:30:27 PM

LaTigresse

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I consider my time to be a cost. If I have to explain something ten different ways, and I still do not get the outcome I want, then my cost/value ratio is pretty lousy.

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/22/2009 4:26:13 PM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I consider my time to be a cost. If I have to explain something ten different ways, and I still do not get the outcome I want, then my cost/value ratio is pretty lousy.

I guess it's just that simple - I've never owned a slave, but I'm familiar with the concept that you relate just from working with people, generally.

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/22/2009 4:48:50 PM

barelynangel

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Oh bloody hell! Jeptha i had a post and the internet ate it -- grr.

I am not quite sure what you are asking but i am going on the following lol:

Basicaly the answer to your question is simple -- every Man determines the cost he is willing to expend on a slave. Most Men i know are very individualistic and specific as to what they want from a slave and hence you will have different costs and values placed upon same. You will get 29012910210 different answers if you ask the same amount of owners what the consider cost they are willing to expend on a slave. Some you will find as mean evil horrible lol and some you will not in agreement on and some you will say omg does he have a princess who rules him or a slave.

The cost AND the value are all determined by the Man who owns the slave. BUT all relationships and people work on a cost value system of what they are willing to expend to obtain what they wish from the potential they see. And sometimes, you HAVE to look at a M/s relationship and make hard decisions... one of those may be -- this girl while i thought she had the potential to reach my expectations and standards within the cost i was willing to pay to have her achieve same will not do so. And many times THAT IS the best decision for both parties so she can find someone who will find value in her within their chosen cost range, and the Man will seek the slave who will achieve value to him within his cost range.

quote:

in an M/s relationship, the owner simply wants a lot out of it without having to put much into it.

You say this like its a bad thing. Its really not. Its what the individual is seeking from a slave. Very low cost with all the benefits. Many Men who don't want to completely enslave or master a woman do this in my opinion. However, this could mean he has a very high ratio of slaves he goes through. Some Men want a lot out of it and put a lot into it (i.e. cost expended) and they may not have such a high ration of slaves but keeps what he finds is excellance of his results of mastery and enslavement. And you have all kinds in between.

Again, i am not sure what you don't understand. But if you are asking do we sit down and calculate the cost and value into figures and numbers.... i have never come across that but who knows there probably is someone who does so somewhere. As slave, you generally can figure out when your value has seeped into the margin of error before his cost starts becoming higher. He knows it also. How this plays out is up to them both.

Hope this clears it up. Otherwise, i am not sure what you are confused about.

angel

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/23/2009 10:01:13 AM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

quote:

in an M/s relationship, the owner simply wants a lot out of it without having to put much into it.

You say this like its a bad thing. Its really not. Its what the individual is seeking from a slave. Very low cost with all the benefits...

At the risk of sounding sexist - I guess I couldn't imagine meeting a woman with whom a relationship of this type could be so simple.

My own cost/benefit analysis, as I've mentioned elsewhere, is based on a fairly simple question: "Am I happy with what I'm doing?"

One could rephrase the question by focusing on the "cost" part of the ratio, and it would come out something like: "Is this more of a pain in the ass then it's worth?"

Thank you for the further note - for all practical purposes, I think I get what you are saying better now.

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/23/2009 10:43:02 AM

barelynangel

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Simplicity in words

quote:

"Is this more of a pain in the ass then it's worth?"

You have achieved the idea behind the cost value system lol. It depends on the individual Man to put variables to the definition of pain in the ass and the definition of worth lol.

quote:

At the risk of sounding sexist - I guess I couldn't imagine meeting a woman with whom a relationship of this type could be so simple.

It is very simple, its the individuals and their need to "do it right" that make it complicated. On a personal note lol to me, most people try to hard. And then they use the internet to see if they are doing it right or for validation. I am always grateful i didn't have the internet to help me become a slave to the Man who owned me lol. I personally think people would do much better if they simply focused on their own relationship instead of trying to figure out how to do it "right."

angel

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/23/2009 11:40:45 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

I personally think people would do much better if they simply focused on their own relationship instead of trying to figure out how to do it "right."

So true

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RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/24/2009 8:55:22 AM

IronBear

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Again I agree with what barelynangel has said regarding a Master placing a cost value on a slave. Now as I see it and as I work these things out when considering a slave, there is a cost to me in time, effort and cold hard cash. This will vary by and large on the slave him or herself as to how much training they will need to get them to operational levels, uniforms and dress, feeding and other such items. I also place a cost value on my time, I honestly would prefer not to have to use my time in additional or extranious training because a slave resists it or needs to be retrained because he or she didn't tell me that they failed to understand when I first gave them instructions or training. (Sometimes these things do happen and that is ok as long as it is not an ever recuring matter). Such time could be better used in cash producing enterprises, work needed to be done by me to improve the home (inside, furnature making or in the garden), fishing, doing calligraphy, designing and studying menues, cooking or reading (my leasure time) as well as time when I can enjoy the company of the slave in play, intimacy or just company. Depending if the slave is contributing to the home income, there will be costs such as food and a share of used unilities etc. Some clothes and uniforms may be able to be passed down but others will need some modifications or made which may require the paid services of a dress maker or tailor and others I can make myself unless the lad or lass is handy with scissors, needle and thread or the sewing machine. So yes there is a vaible cost to the Master or Mistress in a M/s, 24/7, TPE home. Conversley, there is a cost to the slave in time and effort which may need to be balanced with studies or other impostant matters such as employment if he or she are indeed employed.

Thus under these conditions, no submission is ever cheap for either the Master/Mistress or slave.

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