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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/22/2009 8:29:18 PM

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Agreed that Arnold will never be the President but you got to admit it would be kind of funny hearing Arnold saying "My fellow Americans..." in that Arnold voice of his.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/22/2009 10:21:28 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboctThe GOP was the party of Lincoln- but he'd be a democrat today.

Sam, it's even worse than that. If you really want to illustrate how far to the right the Republicans have moved over the last 30 years - and, at the same time, how far to the right they've dragged the entire country - consider this. Imagine, if you will, a Presidential candidate who advocates not only universal health care, but also a national minimum income for every adult in America; along with creation of new federal agencies to promote increased minority small business ownership and the protection of workers' rights and the environment, as well as drastic expansion of existing federal agencies devoted to civil rights and affirmative action. What do you think the Republican Party's reaction would be to such a candidate today?

Well, their reaction in 1968 was to make him President. The man I'm talking about is not some hypothetical candidate; it's Richard M. Nixon. Nixon advocated, but failed to enact, universal health care and a national minimum income. He established the Environmental Protection Agency and the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, greatly expanded many of Johnson's Great Society programs, attempted to add new social welfare programs of his own with the Family Assistance Plan and the Child Development Act, instituted a cost-of-living increase in Social Security and established Supplemental Social Security, sponsored and signed the Water Quality Act and the Endangered Species Act, quadrupled federal spending on the arts, and was the first President in American history under whom spending for social programs exceeded defense spending.

If Richard Nixon he were running today even the Democrats wouldn't dare let him near the nomination because it would be political suicide. The very same party that nominated him and rode him to the White House 40 years ago would crucify him as a communist, if not worse, today. Charles Barkley nailed it a few years ago when he said, "I used to be a Republican, until they went insane," and he couldn't have summed it up better. The Republican Party has not only given in to their lunatic fringe, they've fucking become the lunatic fringe. It's an extremist splinter group that's absorbed and assimilated a political party representing over a third of the voters in this country.

They're not unraveling, they've simply gone completely insane, and this is why I'll never vote for another Republican again - for any office, at any level of government - as long as I live. That whole goddamned party can collapse on itself and burn to the ground like the Hindenberg as far as I'm concerned, and not only would I not feel a single pang of regret, I'd consider it one of the most encouraging political developments in the history of American politics. I have no interest in seeing anyone resurrect that party; let them finish immolating themselves, and then work with whatever rises from the ashes.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/22/2009 10:28:49 PM

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It is humorous enough to hear Arnold say, "California" in his accent. Jay Leno teases him about it all the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Agreed that Arnold will never be the President but you got to admit it would be kind of funny hearing Arnold saying "My fellow Americans..." in that Arnold voice of his.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 5:54:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
I have no interest in seeing anyone resurrect that party; let them finish immolating themselves, and then work with whatever rises from the ashes.

That's not a bad plan either.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 7:11:20 AM

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Hi Panda, Kittin

The problem with that plan for Republican self immolation is that it provides no counterbalance for the democrats. Without an organized opposition-the democrats fall apart. I think it was Will Rogers that said- I don't belong to an organized political party- I'm a democrat!

Panda- interesting comments about Nixon- I just thought he was such an incredible creep and that the young folks who had joined him became the architects of much of our current misery (weren't guys like Roberts, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. groomed under Tricky Dick?) that I didn't realize that he may have accomplished some good other than getting us out of Viet Nam.

There was an interesting poll tidbit today showing that a majority of people think the country is now on the right track. (I agree- I think we need some giant steam shovels because we're in deep shit- but at least we're no longer trying to get to the bottom of the pile.) However, only 24% of Republicans agree with that statement.

I suspect the folks that are defending the Republican party on this board fall into this category. I also include laying all the blame for the current economic crisis on George Bush the younger to be a denial of the failures of the Republican party's platforms- as noted earlier- GWB was not the architect of this plan- he was just the straw that broke the camel's back. If Reagan had come back from the grave- the same implosion would have occurred- and it would be a lot easier to understand what happened and how the policies he put in place 30 years ago had this disastrous effect.

Given that so many Republicans (over 3/4ths!) think the country is on the wrong track, and since we've made at least a 90 degree turn from the policies of the previous administration, one can only conclude that these folks think that GWB had been on the right track. This to me flies in the face of reality. It's like in Tora, Tora, Tora, when a lieutenant (played by the same guy who played Oscar Goldman on the 6 million $ man) asks a Sergeant for confirmation of the report of the destroyer Ward having sunk a submarine at the entrance to the harbor- as the bombs are falling and things are blowing up- the Sergeant yells- Confirmation? You want confirmation? Take a look!

In short- the members of the Republican party aren't on the right track yet either- and until they take a look around and realize that the messes we're dealing with are a function of the parties failed policies- we're going to make a lot less progress getting out of the hole.

Sam

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 7:13:07 AM

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Hi Sam - you've pretty much nailed that one on the head.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 7:24:52 AM

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It amuses me to see Democrats continuously try to blame the current economic crisis solely on former president Bush and the Republicans in general when it's been well established again and again that Democrats are as much to blame for this mess, at the very least, as Republicans are.

The biggest problems with Republicans lately is that they've been spending like Democrats.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/23/2009 7:25:44 AM >

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 7:27:13 AM

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Arnold will never be president for many reasons. The big one. Legally he can't. You have to be born in the United States. Being a citizen is not enough.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 7:42:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It amuses me to see Democrats continuously try to blame the current economic crisis solely on former president Bush and the Republicans in general when it's been well established again and again that Democrats are as much to blame for this mess, at the very least, as Republicans are.

The biggest problems with Republicans lately is that they've been spending like Democrats.

In your haste to be contrary you seem to have bypassed sam's brilliant analysis:

quote:

sam

I also include laying all the blame for the current economic crisis on George Bush the younger to be a denial of the failures of the Republican party's platforms- as noted earlier- GWB was not the architect of this plan- he was just the straw that broke the camel's back. If Reagan had come back from the grave- the same implosion would have occurred- and it would be a lot easier to understand what happened and how the policies he put in place 30 years ago had this disastrous effect.

What's happening is that some Republicans are accusing others of fixating on Bush, simply because they are unable to shake him off themselves. A classic case of projection.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 8:16:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It amuses me to see Democrats continuously try to blame the current economic crisis solely on former president Bush and the Republicans in general when it's been well established again and again that Democrats are as much to blame for this mess, at the very least, as Republicans are.

Actually that's not "establishing", that's "claiming". The reality is that the housing and lending frenzy was less than 10% of the problem. The other 90%+ was credit default swaps, created by former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas).

As

pointed

out

before.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 8:48:01 AM

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Cory and most of the other cons just repeat Rushisms without much thought.Rush provides what looks like cover for neo-cons and just by coincidence,it`s all the democrats fault.

It the battle of ideas and over just what happened,the conservatives are losing.The Rushisms really only serve to salve the battered and beaten physiques of the twue believers.The public isn`t buy`n it.The frustration is apparent and the discomfiture is divine.

There is no doubt it was deregulation ie Reagenomics that brought the house down.

Greenspan admits it.

More...

Though Green span is a republican,he`s far from your typical republican for manning up and admitting he was wrong.

What we need,what investors,savers and consumers need,what America needs is honestly and integrity put back in the system.

That`s going to require the real kind of honesty Greenspn exhibited but that we`re not seeing from the GOP.

They`re caught in the headlights w/ a hand in the cookie jar looking really really bad.But they`re not that clever or creative so all they`re are coming up with is the "they did it,not us" blurt.Or even more lame the "they did it ~too~"blurt.

The republicans would gladly shift blame from themselves to avoid embarrassment(as we see now), even if it meant a longer harder economic downturn.

In fact the strategy(long term) is to hope the economy doesn`t recover so next election the republicans can pretend they`re coming to the rescue.

Similar to how they are pretending now ,that Reagenomic(deregulation) didn`t sink the economy.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/23/2009 8:56:20 AM >

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 8:55:03 AM

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Since we're on the subject of Reagan, I'd really appreciate some background on the reasons why he is remembered with such reverence.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:04:47 AM

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He was an A-1 shill and propagandist for the predator capitalist`s agenda.

He was able to make the extreme,mainstream and got average middle class folks to vote against their own best interests.

A brilliant salesman.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:05:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since we're on the subject of Reagan, I'd really appreciate some background on the reasons why he is remembered with such reverence.

Kittin, it's simple, the republican party is unraveling because they care more about big business than they do The People in this country.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:20:47 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since we're on the subject of Reagan, I'd really appreciate some background on the reasons why he is remembered with such reverence.

Kittin, it's simple, the republican party is unraveling because they care more about big business than they do The People in this country.

But many of them will say… big business allows us to enjoy the American way...but I think it is more like… allows THEM to enjoy the American way...you know trickle down economics... sort of like being pissed on.

Butch

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:22:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

He was an A-1 shill and propagandist for the predator capitalist`s agenda.

He was able to make the extreme,mainstream and got average middle class folks to vote against their own best interests.

A brilliant salesman.

What I remember about him (I was seriously young when he was around) was that he supported South Africa during Apartheid. I mean, what the fuck?

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:33:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Since we're on the subject of Reagan, I'd really appreciate some background on the reasons why he is remembered with such reverence.

1. By spending madly on defense, he brought inflation down which was high during the Carter administration, largely due to the price of oil (his spending later forced his successor, George Bush Sr., to raise taxes). No one seemed to notice that he was increasing the deficit (since he stoked the fears of Communism), or that he slashed many domestic programs such as Medicaid, food stamps, education, and the EPA.

2. He spoke well, so people were reassured since he appeared Presidential while being folksy. He was often self-deprecating and therefore likeable in many people's eyes.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:40:04 AM

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Reagan was a populist. Did I learn well?

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:44:58 AM

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OK, well, if we're standing at the beginning of a 30-40-year period with only one Republican president in there somewhere, I'll take it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

You are accusing me of my own argument. That is exactly my point. One party wields power for a while and then loses it. The other party then weilds power for a while and then loses it. Back and forth, back and forth. The wheels on the bus go round and round.

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RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. - 4/23/2009 9:50:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Reagan was a populist. Did I learn well?

He gave the impression of being a populist, but his tax policies favored the elite, as did (as noted above) his spending policies.

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