RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogations

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:28:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Sure you don`t care. No biggie as far as you`re concerned.

However,in the fight against terrorism(the real one,not the bush one),we need our allies and their cooperation to be affective.

But that too is something conservatives don`t really care about.

Honey, I saw enough of how WE were treated in Somalia, Kuwait, Iran, Afghanastan...first hand...just to name a few to not give a flying fuck how WE treat prisoners. Personally, we should have gone with our first thoughts and killed every last fucking POS that came in our sights.

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 4/16/2009 8:29:07 PM >

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:29:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Attempting to give a damn......

sorry, can't give a damn.

My feelings exactly.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:32:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Not ignoring anything. Those terrorist planners and leaders weren't citizens, were not entitled to being read their Miranda rights (which didn't exist for them), they were not entitled to lawyers.

Under the rules of Geneva most of them were likely entitled only to a bullet to the head for being illegal combatants, which in my opinion terrorist planners such as they fully deserve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
That was the whole game though wasn't it?

Keep them in Cuba where we can ignore our own laws.

You know, I've always found this illegal combatants thing interesting.

On one hand the Bush administration claimed we were fighting wars, but then the captured prisoners were labeled illegal combatants.

So were these really wars or were they police actions against criminals?

It seems Dubya and crew wanted to have it both ways.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:37:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Honey, I saw enough of how WE were treated in Somalia, Kuwait, Iran, Afghanastan...first hand...just to name a few to not give a flying fuck how WE treat prisoners. Personally, we should have gone with our first thoughts and killed every last fucking POS that came in our sights.

That's the spirit.

They fucked us so let's fuck 'em right back.

An eye for an eye.

If they're scumbags we might as well be scumbags too!

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:42:36 PM

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So because there are savages in the world, we`re going to act like savages too?

Explain that to me how that works.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/16/2009 8:43:49 PM >

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:53:26 PM

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quote:

That's the spirit.

They fucked us so let's fuck 'em right back.

An eye for an eye.

If they're scumbags we might as well be scumbags too!

Sure
Why not?

and before anyone asks...yes I am fucking serious.

I shoot first and ask questions afterwards. If someone gets that shot off at me first, they better hope like hell that they hit me and kill me because my shot will not miss.

/sigh

I hate war. I hate conflicts. I hate 'squirmishes'. Not because people die; but because in the end, all that happens is everyone...and I mean everyone...starts playing the blame game. It's his fault. No, it's his fault. No it's their fault. No it's your fault.
For fucks sake...get out of first grade and join reality.

We torture prisoners.
They torture prisoners.
Everyone tortures prisoners
BIG FUCKING DEAL

I don't care who was President at the time. The blame game would still be played.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 8:55:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Attempting to give a damn......

sorry, can't give a damn.

My feelings exactly.

I am inclined to agree. It may seem harsh, but it's the way I feel at times.

I come from a long line of military folks. My grandfather was in WWI, my dad and an uncle were in WWII, had an uncle in the Korean War, two brothers in Vietnam, a nephew in the Persian Gulf, a best friend just got back from Iraq, and I have a niece on active duty who also served overseas. Our soldiers, as prisoners, were never given tea and crumpets, and a big fluffy pillow to lay their heads on when they were captured. Shit happens in war, and it's a huge risk you take when you sign up.

I not a right-winger, Bush fan at all... but I know what my loved ones have seen, and what happened recently isn't a new chapter in the war book. My ex was from overseas and we lived in those countries for a while and I traveled through them during war time. They weren't thrilled about my US passport, and trust me, had I given any reason for them to kick my ass, (woman/mother, or not) they damn sure would have. It's just the way it rolls sometimes. Doesn't mean it's always right, just means that I'm not shocked all to hell about it.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 9:09:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

We torture prisoners.
They torture prisoners.
Everyone tortures prisoners
BIG FUCKING DEAL

If you don't see what's wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

Well, then again I do.

It's the question I keep repeating on all these torture threads and never seem to get an answer.

Would you consider it a big fucking deal if it was your husband, son, or daughter being tortured?

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 9:17:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

I am inclined to agree. It may seem harsh, but it's the way I feel at times.

So I guess this means you`ll be ok with and understand when some Iraqis come here for payback for destroying there county and a hundred thousand of their citizens....

Right?

That how it works?

Or do our sins not count?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/16/2009 9:18:24 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 9:20:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

I am inclined to agree. It may seem harsh, but it's the way I feel at times.

So I guess this means you`ll be ok with and understand when some Iraqis come here for payback for destroying there county and a hundred thousand of their citizens....

Right?

That how it works?

Or do our sins not count?

our sins? please elaborate oh great one. god you make me sick.

< Message edited by Christinestill -- 4/16/2009 9:22:34 PM >

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Learning to color outside the the lines a little more each day.

yes i'm pro-gun, i'm not about to sit around with a fucking rolling pin and hope for the best.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 9:25:36 PM

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Your sincerest compliment.

Thank you.

To answer your question my pretty,this thread is about torture.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 9:39:47 PM

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oh ok your greatness, i thought it was about what to make for dinner tomorrow night. correct me if i'm wrong, but if someone from a foreign country wants to come to the united states for a pay back for something they are offended over, i should accept it. we are a great and big, grand country that is taking advantage of the universe and deserves to be brought down for what again? (please contact me when a martian has an issue with our foreign policy ok?) (i think martians are all about torture...well, that's what i've heard anyhow...ok, off for porkrinds and canned shrimp sammiches now. is it ok with you if i wear my cut off shorts and tank top...do ya think people will take me seriously?)

_____________________________

"Ya can't be scared if you're laughing!" -lushy

Learning to color outside the the lines a little more each day.

yes i'm pro-gun, i'm not about to sit around with a fucking rolling pin and hope for the best.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 9:57:03 PM

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One of the goals of the radicals and bin-laden was to radicalize people here.

For some,a swimming success apparently.

We let that happen,they win.

My biggest point is the joint war on terrorism with our allies.If there`s no cooperation,it`s lost.Depriving the neo-cons of their torture fun to win it is worth that sacrifice.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:14:54 PM

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FR

....some people in the West can't see any point in not acting like terrorists..........therefore terrorists win. Bloody collaberators.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:19:05 PM

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well fuck, i guess i can't be out guessed as wanting to be a terrorist. you guys are so smart you've got me...i'm gotten, take me already while i sit on my delapidated front porch and eat my pork rinds in my second hand house dress...i'm ashamed.

_____________________________

"Ya can't be scared if you're laughing!" -lushy

Learning to color outside the the lines a little more each day.

yes i'm pro-gun, i'm not about to sit around with a fucking rolling pin and hope for the best.

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:20:30 PM

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I read this article expecting much worse given the subject line. Honestly.. I'm not sure I understand the outrage over a caterpillar, and I'm grasping at straws trying to figure out why it is.. that newsworthy. As a part of the whole, I guess, but as the lead?

This is what I take from the story

"You [the CIA] would like to place Zubaydah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us [the Department of Justice] that he appears to have a fear of insects. In particular, you would like to tell Zubaydah that you intend to place a stinging insect into the box with him. You would, however, place a harmless insect in the box. You have orally informed us that you would in fact place a harmless insect such as a catapiller in the box with him."

An additional sentence at the end of this paragraph is redacted in the copy made public Thursday. Later in the same memo, Bybee concludes that "an individual placed in a box, even an individual with a fear of insects, would not reasonably feel threatened with severe physical pain or suffering if a caterpiller was placed in the box." Bybee adds, however, that the interrogators should not tell Zubaydah that the insect sting "would produce death or severe pain."

Someone help me because I fail to see torture in that. Before you bring out the Bush bats, understand I didn't like the man either, didn't like what was done at gitmo, didn't like gitmo's existence.

Fuck, I did worse things to my mom when I was a kid like... waiting until she was in the shower then tossing a black snake in the bathroom or the time I caught a snapping turtle about the size of a washtub and convinced my brother to lie down in the yard screaming to get her to run out on the same porch I parked it. And ya know how women used to wear them big bun hairdos? Well, if you're very careful, you can drop things like birdseed, breadcrumbs, you know, edibles in it when they're not paying attention. Makes watching your mom stand outside talking to people interesting when birds start dive bombing.

I'm trying here. Is it because he was afraid of insects that makes this outrageous enough to be worthy of a story lead in Time and a thread lead here?

I was kind of expecting something like, maybe, strapping him down in a box full of black widows, sand fleas, scorpions, wasps, african honey bees something. Dunno.

Maybe it's too late and I've traveled too much today to see the torture involved with a caterpillar - especially among people who enjoy a good mind fuck.

Now, if it was one of those big tobacco worms, I might could undertand that. Those fuckers sting the hell out of you.

Who ever mentioned above that Germany treated our prisoners well during the second one, I got a widow you can talk to about good treatment.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 4/16/2009 10:23:26 PM >

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:24:38 PM

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There was also a huge homo-erotic, bd/sm theme for the happy campers in Abu-ghraib....

What was 'dat' about?

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:25:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

I read this article expecting much worse given the subject line. Honestly.. I'm not sure I understand the outrage over a caterpillar, and I'm grasping at straws trying to figure out why it is.. that newsworthy. As a part of the whole, I guess, but as the lead?
.

It's late, but I will try to explain...It's an outrage because it happened while Bush was in office. Therefore it proves that all conservatives are evil people and should be shot. It also makes people happy because it gets our minds off the increase in taxes.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:25:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Christinestill

well fuck, i guess i can't be out guessed as wanting to be a terrorist. you guys are so smart you've got me...i'm gotten, take me already while i sit on my delapidated front porch and eat my pork rinds in my second hand house dress...i'm ashamed.

...i do hope you're also taking potshots at the old fridge in the front yard, i hate to see a good stereotype go to waste.

Seriously, let's quote Nietzche.......when you look into the abyss it also looks back into you. 9/11 and its aftermath was a sort of abyss for the US. The hardest thing to do in such cases is to retain the high moral ground. Yet that is how an ideological war is ultimately won...by actually being better than the opponent. Torture is an abdication of the moral high ground.
You don't win against terrorists by becoming more like them, you win by not being like them.

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RE: Bush Approved Use of Insects in al-Qaeda Interrogat... - 4/16/2009 10:27:44 PM

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there are happy campers in abu ghraib? who knew?

_____________________________

"Ya can't be scared if you're laughing!" -lushy

Learning to color outside the the lines a little more each day.

yes i'm pro-gun, i'm not about to sit around with a fucking rolling pin and hope for the best.

(in reply to Owner59)

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