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Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 10:45:52 AM

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Well how's this for a contentious thread then? Iranian President, Ahmidinejad (or whatever his name is) spoke at a UN conference on diversity today, naming Israel as a racist state.

Many diplomats walked out in disgust, stating that such a comment was inappropriate, and especially given the nature of the conference.

But, by most definitions, isnt Israel a racist state?

Cue 273 pages of contentious debate

E

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 10:53:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
But, by most definitions, isnt Israel a racist state?

"By most definitions": please explain.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 11:16:32 AM

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In the sense that Israel is a state set up for one people - whether defined ethnically or religiously, and unlike other democratic states does not celebrate and promote multi-culturalism and is organised in such a way as to prevent any change to the mono-cultural environment which forms it.

It is a situation comparable to we in England declaring that belonging to the Church Of England, and being able to prove that one's ancestors were members likewise, is the sole arbiter of whether one should receive democratic rights within England which should rightly attach to anyone naturalising into any other westernised democracy. Were we to declare such a thing we should be condemned as racist.

Notwithstanding the reasons behind the prevention of multi-cultural democratic influence within Israel, it meets the description of a racist state within most definitions thereof.

E

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 12:08:29 PM

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Sorry, LadyE, but you have so many misconceptions it would take more than this thread to rectify them... I can only suggest you travel over there if you haven't already, and that you talk to real people. Good luck in your endeavours.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 12:32:13 PM

Arpig

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It is my understanding that non-jews living in Isreal (not within the territory of the PA) have full democratic rights.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 12:46:56 PM

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It was my impression that non-Jews were not permitted to immigrate and vote - this with a view to preventing Arab immigration which might overturn by way of the democratic process, the Jewish nature of the state?
E

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 12:50:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

In the sense that Israel is a state set up for one people - whether defined ethnically or religiously, and unlike other democratic states does not celebrate and promote multi-culturalism and is organised in such a way as to prevent any change to the mono-cultural environment which forms it.

How are those criteria racist?

Ethnocentric or theocratic, definitely, but not racist.

The last time I checked Irans and Hebrews were the racial group if you like to use such categories.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 1:10:04 PM

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Pssssst, don't look now, but Ahmidinejad has suggested/recommended the destruction of Israel. There are those who believe he is attempting to be a trouble maker and a rabble rouser. Unless things have changed considerably in that area in the past few years, if you are not a Muslim, you would probably not be welcome to date any of the Muslim singles in his family, country or sphere of influence.
imho, the term "racist" is often used as a way to wallow in self pity, avoid responsibility, and as an excuse to behave less than honorably.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 1:18:41 PM

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Consider the source......

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 1:19:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

It is my understanding that non-jews living in Isreal (not within the territory of the PA) have full democratic rights.

Pssssttt... it's Israel.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 4:58:24 PM

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Achmeenachooo certainly has his viewpoint, and like many provocative claims- there is a small grain of truth to it. According to this site-

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.html#a

Palestinians living in the countries post '73 borders do not have the same rights as Palestinians living inside the '73 borders. Hence, there is a discrimination based on ethnicity. (Race is not a concept that has a lot of scientific validity.) However, according to the site linked above- 8 members of the Knesset (the Israeli parliament) are of Arab descent. It's a little hard for me to understand how people could be elected to Parliament without first being able to vote- which are rights available to the Arabs living within the '73 borders.

There's no doubt that Israel is a fractious place, with laws and tensions that are tough to understand. I too had fallen into the habit of thinking that Israel was an apartheid country similar to South Africa, but like most complicated situations, there are at least two sides to the story. I suspect that there's a certain element of truth to the idea that Arabs earn less than Jews in Israel because they take more agricultural jobs and are largely exempted from the military.

However, what the above site also makes no mention of is the policy of Palestinian immigration into Israel, which is currently tightly restricted and probably helps explain the disparity in population between Arabs and Jews - currently roughly 20/80.

Sam

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 5:09:01 PM

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He is absolutely right. It is like giving Utah to the Mormons who say all non-whites are bad and will be white again once they accept Jesus as their saviour. Orthodox Jews do not recognize the state Israel. The western world calls Israel a democracy while only Jews are allowed to vote. Israel can have all the arms they want while the Palestinians have no right to a state and should turn the other cheek.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 5:39:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar

The western world calls Israel a democracy while only Jews are allowed to vote. \

This is, of course, blatantly untrue. All Israeli citizens can vote in Israel regardless of their religion, and there are Muslims, Christians and others who are Israeli citizens besides the Jewish electorate. It's pathetic how ill-informed people are and how quick they are to spread lies: ignorance excuses nothing.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/20/2009 5:40:32 PM >

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 5:42:18 PM

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This should be interesting.....

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 5:48:20 PM

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Don't be so sure about that

.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 5:59:31 PM

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Lets just say I have faith.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 6:03:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar

The western world calls Israel a democracy while only Jews are allowed to vote. \

This is, of course, blatantly untrue. All Israeli citizens can vote in Israel regardless of their religion, and there are Muslims, Christians and others who are Israeli citizens besides the Jewish electorate. It's pathetic how ill-informed people are and how quick they are to spread lies: ignorance excuses nothing.

Israel does not recognize a lot of Palestinians who already lived between their borders, so to speak, before the state was founded. It is obvious Palestinians do not have the same rights. You never heard about the Israeli Apartheid?

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 6:12:51 PM

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If that were true, the thus in that statement should be eliminate rather than overturn. I'm not sure I'd go along with your analogy either. I'm thinking something more along the lines of Cherokee and Shawnee, and the feel good logic of attaching racism to trying to stay alive. Ak whatever his name is has tried all the annihilation, purge, kill, wipe from the map talk before. Didn't get him anywhere. I guess he's been studying the US playbook where one can utter the word and create an avalanche of condemnation without any real proof.

I'm sure it will work with some.

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RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 6:13:13 PM

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Faith rewarded.....I rest my case.

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(in reply to Eigenaar)

RE: Israel is a racist state, says Iranian president - 4/20/2009 6:18:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar
You never heard about the Israeli Apartheid?

You said that only Jews could vote in Israel - now that you're proven wrong, you try to deviate from your original assertion. This allows me to dismiss you as uninformed (and I'm being kind): perhaps next time, you'll want to do a minimum of reading before you dive into the big kids' pool.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/20/2009 6:25:33 PM >

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