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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 4:45:21 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So a fully automatic AK 47 is an assault weapon!

Who owns fully automatic AK 47's? You can't walk into Ma&Pa's Guns and Gas and buy one.

Why walk into "Ma&Pa's Guns and Gas"...when your local gun show is much more conveinent....make a private purchase and no need for pesky waiting periods or background checks.


Every gun show in the U.S. has a BATF presence, so I seriously doubt that people are selling fully automatic guns out the back door.

Let me know when & where you score, because I really doubt you could find a full auto AK at a gun show.

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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 4:46:50 PM   
slvemike4u


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Could I find a semi-automatic Ak at a gun show subrob?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 5:18:37 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Why are you going to a gun show when you can do so from the privacy of your own home.

http://www.eastcoastfirearms.com/

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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 5:25:56 PM   
slvemike4u


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Chilling to say the least....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 6:24:43 PM   
subrob1967


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Now try to buy a class 3 firearm.

Yes you probably could find a Semi Auto AK at a gun show, and unfortunately they no longer cost $200.

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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 6:57:07 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Class 3 did you say?

http://www.eastcoastfirearms.com/default.asp?parent_id=128&is_gallery=0

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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 9:08:23 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Class 3 did you say?

http://www.eastcoastfirearms.com/default.asp?parent_id=128&is_gallery=0


Try buying one from the dealer.

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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 9:40:52 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Oh you use ECFA too huh? When they say rush shipment they mean it, don't they.

edited to add: From the website I showed the link of-

" You must contact a Federal Firearms License holder in the state in which you live to transfer ownership of firearms purchased from East Coast Firearms. The firearms will be shipped to that FFL holder's business address and they will perform the necessary background check and transfer the firearms to you. You may check with local gun stores, gunsmiths or pawn shops to see if they perform firearms transfers. You should expect to pay $25-$40 for the transfer. If you are having problems locating a FFL holder, then contact East Coast Firearms and we will help you find someone in your area. "
 


< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 4/29/2009 9:46:57 PM >


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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 9:57:01 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Could I find a semi-automatic Ak at a gun show subrob?


Sure. You can get a semi-automatic anything at a gun show. I could sell my dad's old deer rifle, a semi-automatic Winchester .308, at a gun show. There's no substantive difference between that and an AK-47, other than magazine capacity. And the fact that it's about a bazillion times more accurate than the AK. Other than that, it's just two semi-automatic .308s.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Chilling to say the least....


Orion already beat me to it, but his last post shows why there's nothing chilling about an internet gundealer. In case you're unfamiliar with the specific firearms law, and don't recognize the significance of what he posted. Bottom line is, what that boilerplate means is that no matter who you're buying it from, you still need to physically walk into a gun store, show ID, fill out the paperwork, wait for the background check, and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal laws before you can pick up the weapon. No big deal. Same as if you'd bought it off the gun store's rack in the first place.


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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/29/2009 10:17:55 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

And yes in Australia violent crime has skyrocketed since they banned guns. It's way out of proportion now.


Preach it. I forget the exact numbers, because I'm quoting from memory and a few unreferenced notes, but as best as I can recall during the period of 1995 to 2007, both Australia and the US saw their murder rate drop 31 %, which means the murder rate in the US dropped exactly the same as Australia's without banning guns.

During the same period, assault in Australia rose almost 50% and dropped over 30% in the US.

Robbery in Australia rose 6% and dropped over 30% in the US.

Rape rose 30% in Australia while dropping 20% in the US.

Overall, violent crime rose over 40% in Australia and dropped over 30% in the States.

Now, which country was it that banned almost all firearms in order to make their citizens safer?



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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/30/2009 5:48:38 PM   
slvemike4u


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Seriously with the numbers of firearms currently in the hands of citizens...do you actually envision some dramatic uptick in violent crime in America?

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 4/30/2009 5:51:17 PM >


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/30/2009 11:47:55 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Seriously with the numbers of firearms currently in the hands of citizens...do you actually envision some dramatic uptick in violent crime in America?


I'm just supporting Popeye's remark about what happened in Australia when they banned almost all private ownership of firearms. He said violent crime skyrocketed, I chimed in with some figures to support his point.


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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/1/2009 11:48:56 AM   
slvemike4u


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And I'm asking your opinion over whether or not,given the number of privately held weapons in the U.S a restriction of new weapons would result in an across the board increase in violent crime.
Keeping in mind,no seizure of any guns...those who have them,have them......?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/1/2009 1:43:24 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And I'm asking your opinion over whether or not,given the number of privately held weapons in the U.S a restriction of new weapons would result in an across the board increase in violent crime.
Keeping in mind,no seizure of any guns...those who have them,have them......?


That really depends on economic factors, if our economy gets any worse, you will see a rise in crime, regardless of a gun restriction.

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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/1/2009 4:21:51 PM   
slvemike4u


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Well the irregardless of gun restrictions makes the point moot....my question is specifically asking about consequences of new gun restrictions.....not the economic climate.Desperation and poverty will of course drive up violent crime numbers...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/1/2009 7:42:59 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Honestly, I'm hard pressed to hazard a guess about the possible effect of banning new gun sales. On crime rates, or anything else, really. The only thing I could say for sure is that it would probaby put a lot of gun dealers out of business!

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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/1/2009 11:17:30 PM   
slvemike4u


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Well,have no fear,this is America....it could never happen.A silly hypothetical....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/2/2009 10:45:00 AM   
Crush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

........automobiles are not referenced in the Constitution. There's a reason for this, they weren't around. However if they had been around would they have been mentioned? After all, possession and use of a car is an important thing...especially in a country the size of the USA. Without one, you can be restricted from certain employment opportunities.
The use of a car is made contingent on passing a test. The sole purpose of this test is to ensure the operator of a car knows how to use one safely. That's all. There's no political agenda, simply the idea that if you're going to take charge of a large piece of hurtling metal it's best to know how to steer and hit the breaks.
Now guns were mentioned in the Constitution. They were around. Let's take it as read that they are as necessary to life as a car. Given that, why not require a small amount of training before allowing people to own and operate them? Let's say the same level of training as we require for car users. After all, unsafe operation of a gun is potentially just as dangerous as unsafe operation of a car. It's a historical accident that one was mentioned in the Constitution and one wasn't.
As Marc has said earlier, an individuals rights end where anothers begins. Unsafe operation of a gun can potentialy infringe another persons rights. i'm not arguing against gun ownership...just suggesting that those who do own guns are required to know how to operate them in a manner that doesn't screw other people up.


Funny...horses, wagons and related equipment was around then.  Didn't need to take a test on how to "operate" a horse and get a license.  People learned or died or had to replace or live without. 

You aren't prohibited from traveling by the Constitution.   Get a horse.  Walk.  Ride a bicycle.  Take public transportation.  But the Federal government is prohibited from infringing on your right to bear arms.  You can't misuse them without consequence, any more than you can run a newspaper and run libelous statements without consequence.  Free speech doesn't mean speech without consequences.  

People who own firearms but don't take the time to train with them are foolish, that's a given.  No different than someone who has a pet and doesn't learn how to care for it, from horse to rat.  Or pick anything else.  Dentures?  Fail to pay attention to how to maintain them and you'll become ill or will have to replace them.

Folks I know (so yes, a restricted sample) DO take the time to go to the range and practice.  Have taken classes or been taught by their parents or grandparents or both.  Many get more practice in than our police officers. 

So the car analogy fails, for several reasons.   You CAN drive a car/dirtbike/offroader on your own property or in many places.  You don't even need a license.  The car needs its license to be on public roads.  You need a driver's license to drive it on public roads.  You don't need a "class" to take the driver's license once you are of age. (Underaged drivers in Florida are required take a "Drinking and Driving" course.)

But probably the simplest reason, as an "Occam's Razor " approach would indicate, is that owning a firearm is IN the Constitution.  No mention of a method of transporation is mentioned except by exclusion...see the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.






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RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/2/2009 6:03:30 PM   
calamitysandra


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Now, considering that I do not live in the US, and have been surprised more than once already where it came to circumstances in other countries, I have to ask if you guys and gals really feel you need to keep a gun handy in case of a home invasion or other violent crimes? Is it really so commonplace to wake up in the middle of the night to strangers standing at the foot of your bed? And if so, why is it so abhorrent a thought to require gun ownership courses before getting one? It would only make sense, would it not? If the danger is big enough that guns are needed, make sure the people know how to use it, otherwise you could have just handed out rocks to throw.

And yes, looking on from the other side of the pond, I can not relate. If I would feel so unsafe and threatened in my own home that I would feel the need for a gun, I would be moving already.
Oh, and not ever sleep, ever again, while still in that place.

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 5/2/2009 7:03:27 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Desperation and poverty will of course drive up violent crime numbers...


uh .... you have anything that backs up this assertion, Mike?

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 180
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