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RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:07:33 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Firm,you almost sound giddy at the prospect of failure for the next couple of years. Such failure will be accompanied by much suffering and diminished prospects for a good portion of your fellow citizens.
Would success experienced under the umbrella of Democratic leadership be that distasteful?


Not at all Mike. If the Democrats are successful, I'll be joyous.

Regardless of how some on the forums label me from time to time, I'm actually a pretty moderate guy, and the party labels aren't as important to me as the policies and results.

I'm much more a conservative than I am a Republican. I was raised and voted Democrat for many years, but changed after Reagan's election. Hell, I didn't even vote for Reagan (the first time).

If you dissect my political beliefs (and I've said this several times on the boards), I'm closest to a classic liberal - much more than most of the "liberals" on these forums (or at least the most vociferous "liberal" posters).

The only major way I vary from a classical liberal is that I believe that faith and religion have an important place in a healthy society.

What I sound "giddy" about is that I think that having the Dems in full control will do two things:

1. It will allow a stark highlighting between the (supposed) philosophical differences between the two main parties.

Hopefully, this will also allow the Republicans to return to their "small government, fiscal restrained" roots - which has been notable absent the last few years.

If it doesn't do this, or the Republicans just become "Demo-lites", then the nation may well end up further down the road to the massive state run society in which oppression becomes the norm.

Not that I want that, really, but an oppressive environment is one possible way to engender and grow opposition to statist policies.

As I've said in other threads, we are lobsters in a heating pot. If we can't turn it around any other way (which would be preferable), then the pot needs to boil as quickly as possible to make the need to a change very apparent.

2. It could prove that I'm completly incorrect in my beliefs about where the current Democratic Party will lead us, and if so, then letting them have the ability and power to implement their policies should show me pretty quickly, over the next few years. Having a vibrant and politically strong nation would be to my benefit, after all.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and will admit it.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 4/28/2009 5:24:50 PM >

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RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:17:19 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Well, let's start kicking around some of the ramifications of this. First of all, when Franken is seated the Dems will have a filibuster-proof majority. For better or worse. I'm not entirely happy about that, but as obstinate and obstructive as the Republicans have been the first few months of the Obama Administration, overall I'd say it's a positive.


I think it's a short term positive but a long term negative. You're right that the Republican party has made its own bed by its unwillingness to work together. Anytime either party has absolute control it tends to breed arrogance over time and particularly so after following a period when said party did not have the upper hand. Our system only works well when we have two strong parties that are willing to work together for the common good.

As far as the whole filibuster issue is concerned there is a difference between having the theoretical numbers and getting 60 of them when you need it. There are very few if any senators who vote with their party's majority all of the time. Any piece of legislation proffered by either side of the aisle that needs a filibuster proof majority to gain passage is a scary thought. For better or for worse, all of the legislation that was approved during Bush's watch passed without a magic number. If it was all so bad where were the filibusters to stop it? And if the agenda that the Democrats have in mind is so good for this country then why is the magic number so important to them?

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:19:41 PM   
painpup


Posts: 132
Joined: 2/16/2005
Status: offline 		Well i've always been for Term limits if You don't get results for The People then out You Go .... I also believe in K.I.S.S princapull too I really believe Gov't has indeed Grown far to big

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:26:31 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: painpup

Well i've always been for Term limits if You don't get results for The People then out You Go .... I also believe in K.I.S.S princapull too I really believe Gov't has indeed Grown far to big


Failure to implement term limits was one of the Republican's greatest mistakes.

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:26:39 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		FirnHand, You say that you are conservative, but hope the democrats are successfull ? To me, that doesn't compute. Your conservative values will go flying out the window when Obama starts appointing Federal judges and eventually one or more Supreme Court jurists. For those reasons I hope the Dems lose the senate in 2010..  A true conservative would not want that to happen..

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:35:38 PM   
painpup


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: painpup

Well i've always been for Term limits if You don't get results for The People then out You Go .... I also believe in K.I.S.S princapull too I really believe Gov't has indeed Grown far to big


Failure to implement term limits was one of the Republican's greatest mistakes.

Firm
I agree Firm and I've been watching appointments Closly Honestly  I did very well  under Reagan  I liked making a differance ... This Dem in power now is the only one that's made me nervious no other Pres has and no its not a color issue on this

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:52:16 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		~FR~


Specter condemned Jim Jeffords' party switch in 2001

Jim Bourg / ReutersSenator James Jeffords of Vermont appears in 2001, announcing his departure from the Republican party.When the Vermont Republican became an independent, Specter lost a committee chairmanship in the Senate's resulting power shift. An angry Specter proposed a ban on such party switches. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-specter-jeffords29-2009apr29,0,2430682.story

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RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 5:58:44 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Spector lost all support of the republicans and will not overcome this shift. He will be through in 2010..

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 6:02:41 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		So Servant,at the alter of your ideology you would sacrifice the well being of the Republic.More important that you and your kind are seen to be right,than the ship of state sail calm waters.
I appreciate the honest example of priorities as espoused by a "conservative".

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 6:07:40 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I don't see how a liberal supreme court will be good for this country. I also don't know how  PA. voters can continually elect a person who does just the opposite of what he campaigns on. We have 2 very liberal senators here in Wis. Kohl and Fiengold who I would never vote for. At least they are honest and tell you where they are coming from. Spector is a liar..

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 6:15:40 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Sorry servant but to me post# 45 seems to be a call for the current administration fail,and fail miserably.
Though,at this point it would appear your point is moot .....As things stand right now there really isn't a cohesive Republican party to offer an alternative

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 6:42:04 PM   
BKSir


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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry servant but to me post# 45 seems to be a call for the current administration fail,and fail miserably.
Though,at this point it would appear your point is moot .....As things stand right now there really isn't a cohesive Republican party to offer an alternative


Unfortunately that's the problem right there, the lack of a cohesive Republican party.  If there were one, I'd probably lean that way, if they actually got back to their true core values.  As it stands, they're commonly a bunch of lunatic fringe and bible thumping neo-cons, and a tiny smattering of actual "Republicans".

The actual Republican party has been sorely lacking for a while, and began its decline long ago.  It's just far more noticeable as of late.  After all, things rolling down hill do pick up speed the farther they go.


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 6:46:17 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		You are right BK. Under, Bush the republicans started spending like drunken democrat sailors. I do think that the 2008 election was a big wake up call. Spector will be the first to go, but we have to get back to being fiscally sound..

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:00:03 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		No BK,to me the problem is those that would rather see the country falter,rather than the "other" party is the architect of success.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:11:31 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

No BK,to me the problem is those that would rather see the country falter,rather than the "other" party is the architect of success.


There is that, but, to be honest that is a rather small group, no matter how vocal they are.  And a lot of them, unfortunately, are part of the groups I mentioned before.

Either way though, I must say I'm rather shocked about Specter switching sides, and I doubt that he's the last one we're going to see do so over the next couple years.

Been an eventful day news-wise, that's for sure.


_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:21:20 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

FirnHand, You say that you are conservative, but hope the democrats are successfull ? To me, that doesn't compute. Your conservative values will go flying out the window when Obama starts appointing Federal judges and eventually one or more Supreme Court jurists. For those reasons I hope the Dems lose the senate in 2010..  A true conservative would not want that to happen..


Depends on your meaning of "success", and the end game.

I don't want 'big government", but that's what we are getting with both parties. If we are going to go that way, might as well go whole hog, and get to the end game, so that we can take appropriate action.

Just like Carter lead directly to Reagan, Obama and a solid Democratic Congress may lead to something better.

Thesis, Anti-thesis, Synthesis.

Do you really think, with the current system, that either Dems or Repubs are going to turn back the intrusion of government, and the advance to collectivism in our society?

If not, then what are the options?

1. A middle course, which in my opinion is likely unstable, and will just continue the slow slide, or

2. An accelerated course to the collective end-game, so that we can have the opportunity to restart the machine.

I don't see - realistically - much of a chance to change things any other way, do you?

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 4/28/2009 7:22:01 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:26:36 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I don't see how a liberal supreme court will be good for this country. I also don't know how  PA. voters can continually elect a person who does just the opposite of what he campaigns on. We have 2 very liberal senators here in Wis. Kohl and Fiengold who I would never vote for. At least they are honest and tell you where they are coming from. Spector is a liar..


May I ask what conservative agenda other than abortion do you see as a problem with a liberal court?

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:40:35 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Okay Firm,that is where we part company in my eyes a middle course is not only preferable but it is to be desired.An unfettered free market leaves too many on the outside looking in,not to mention leads to far too many abuses of the working class.While a "collectivism" tends to stifle the entrepenurial streak that makes this country great.Better a tight rope walk of balance that keeps the best of both methods uneasily co-existing.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:49:12 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Hi KD, I can mention two right off the bat. The first being out right to bear arms, the second is the so called 'fairness doctrine' where conservative talk radio would be silenced. Does PBS have and alternative viewpoint on their stations?

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat - 4/28/2009 7:58:55 PM   
painpup


Posts: 132
Joined: 2/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Hi KD, I can mention two right off the bat. The first being out right to bear arms, the second is the so called 'fairness doctrine' where conservative talk radio would be silenced. Does PBS have and alternative viewpoint on their stations?
I've been waiting for this one its more then just talk radio There after http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96301 meet the New Czar

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Profile   Post #: 60
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