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RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/4/2009 6:53:57 PM

Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
So her first munch would be at my side and, that aside, I can't even contemplate suggesting a novice attend a gathering of total strangers on her own!

I mostly agree with Focus here. It's not even that it's a munch. I wouldn't send a sub to the Pagan moot I go to without me, for similar reasons.

Gasp the horror of doing something you have never done before! I mean terrible things can happen. Like you can met new ppl, try new things. Gain a little knowledge. And prolly the worst.... experience personal growth.

According to focus I was prolly the worst dad in the world. I made it a point yes a POINT.for my kidsto try new stuff. You name it they tried out for it track drama music anything and eveything..

Look the point folks...Expereince new stuff who knows you might just enjoi it. That's how I "discovered" sailing.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Apocalypso)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/4/2009 10:40:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Gasp the horror of doing something you have never done before! I mean terrible things can happen. Like you can met new ppl, try new things. Gain a little knowledge. And prolly the worst.... experience personal growth.

Not when it's specifically my friends they'd be meeting. That's the deciding factor for me and why I'd feel it was my obligation to introduce them.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/4/2009 10:59:44 PM

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From: California
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Hmmm... The OP never said what he was training her FOR, or TO DO. Is he training her to be his slave? Is he training her on how to serve high tea? Is he training her on the ancient art of origami?

If he was training her to become his slave (although, I'm a bit iffy on that since she is already considered his "property"), then I would think I would decline going alone the first time to meet his friends.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Apocalypso)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/4/2009 11:04:56 PM

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hibiscusamira

I have sent you a private message.

Maria

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(in reply to hibiscusamira)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 4:21:20 AM

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

She can get her car and drive home or to his house to be comforted from whatever verbal insults might happen. It's a munch in a public place - the odds of her being held down and molested are about the same as letting her go to Wal-Mart by herself.

She (my girl - not literally the OP) can come to me to be comforted? Me, who put my *possession* in that situation to begin with? And when I face the fella in the mirror, I'll just write that off as an unforseen and unfortunate circumstance; ESPECIALLY the part about it being her *first* munch and I let her go unescorted by ANYONE???

And let's be clear, when I tell my girl (my possession) something is her choice, I'm not entirely off the hook if hindsight says she chose poorly or was unlucky.

Also, your two creative examples notwithstanding, there are infinitely more things that can ruin a night that aren't nearly so overt. Boredom comes to mind, for starters.... I assume you've been to munches - what do people mostly talk about? Other than some commentary on current issues, it usually breaks into sub-groups (nothing to do with submissives per se'... lol) of friends and acquaintances talking about shared experiences, BDSM or other. And as one whose been in that situation, it really sucks not knowing anyone present and your mind starts ragging you about "Why the fuck am I even here...?" - and the legs tend to take it from there....

A relevant point posted by BKSir:
"Letting them go out on their own with the knowledge that just because I'm not there, they're still representing me, and everything they do directly reflects on me, so they should act accordingly."

While I agree, this is only one half of a greater whole. I (or my actions) would also be represented by the fact that I sent a newbie sub to a munch where I'm known without escort, knowing full well she likely doesn't know anyone herself. For people who are big on references, and therefore reputation, how do ya reckon I'd look in their eyes? And don't give me any crap about they being my friends so they'd understand bla bla - eyebrows still get raised; words get exchanged in hushed tones.... I know when I see a sub with the proverbial spotlight on them for whatever reason at a social gathering, I reactively look for their dom/me's handling of that situation.

And I grow tired of this. People often think Dom/mes have it easy because we command and the other simply does our bidding. While no-one is perfect, in the world of D/s and control dynamics etc, the one charged with making decisions and choices etc has an expectation to get it right and the onus of responsibility when we don't. So, for the last time, there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever send a newbie sub (even a mature, independent adult) to socialise with a bunch of strangers under the ridiculous premise she may learn something or have a good time. She still might, just like winning the lottery - but that ain't how this black duck formulates his decisions or choices!

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 4:55:10 AM

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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Gasp the horror of doing something you have never done before! I mean terrible things can happen. Like you can met new ppl, try new things. Gain a little knowledge. And prolly the worst.... experience personal growth.

According to focus I was prolly the worst dad in the world.

Let's see; I don't recall saying that; I don't know all the dads in the world and I don't know you - but you do seem rather earnest in the belief and determined to claim such a dubious title so, ok, my vote says you're "it"....

quote:

I made it a point yes a POINT.for my kidsto try new stuff. You name it they tried out for it track drama music anything and eveything..

Look the point folks...Expereince new stuff who knows you might just enjoi it. That's how I "discovered" sailing.

Sooo, you're saying you'd treat your sub (presumably a mature adult) similarly to your kids? And when things don't go according to your whimsical philosophy...., you...., kiss it better, say "sorry" or "oops" or "bummer", shrug it off as just being life?

I'm kinda getting the drift that you're a guy who says "sorry" a lot in your life - that magical reflex, cure-all answer of those who don't give a shit about too much as they drift through life and spends more time fixing things than planning ahead.

I get to be judgemental of those who wanna put words in my mouth - rule of Focus (or focus, if that's easier for you). *wink*

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 5:06:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
And let's be clear, when I tell my girl (my possession) something is her choice, I'm not entirely off the hook if hindsight says she chose poorly or was unlucky.

Stop pissing Me off by saying things I can only agree with!

On the nail there focus. If I am giving My girl a choise, in effect I am approving all the choises that can be made regarding that issue. I Own her, her choises are either made by Me or accountable to Me... The only way I can be 'off the hook' is if she disabeys Me and then there is a bigger issue to deal with!

When My girl was asking about maybe going to a munch I couldn't go to.... a ladys munch.... I said fine so long as We arranged for her to go with one of a couple of people I know that attend, people who would keep an eye on her and also help her break the ice as well as be company themselves.

The first local munch after she moved in with Me.... if I had not been able to attend, she would have waited till the next month. That is MY home turf, whilst I have no qualms about her safety she gets nervious attending new things alone. she would have felt very odd going there for the first time without Me, people would have been more concerned in finding out where I was than about meeting her. Going with Me, I was breaking the ice for her Myself, introducing her around and yes proudly showing off My girl!

Plus, whilst I would have had no concerns about her well being whilst there.... like hell would I have her walk home alone around pub chucking out time. The area where the munch is is pretty quiet but the area where We live can be a little 'lively' if you know what I mean! she doesn't get to go to the corner shop alone after 10:30 let alone walk back from the munch.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 5:11:23 AM

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Focus,

i sent you a private message.

hibiscus

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 7:20:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hibiscusamira
I'm being trained by this lovely Dom. He is caring, sweet, but strict and demanding when needed. I am his possession while I am being trained.

I'm debating on going to a social and munch that He normally goes to, but He won't be able to attend. He said that he would like me to go, even though he can not, but it feels sort of weird. (plus, I'm sort of scared seeing he won't be there and I don't know anyone else.) Would you still want your posession to go by herself?

-edit-
He is not telling me I have to go, it is my choice weather I go or not.

Yes, I would want mine to go by herself. But that's because I have specific goals around her pesonal growth in terms of becoming a bit more extroverted and social. So for me, at least, it would be me getting her to challenge her limits & boundaries. The real question is why does he want you to go? You can't really properly obey & serve your Master without understanding motivations.

Were this me, I'd go back and ask him his reasoning on why he preferred you go. If it makes sense to you, then go. If not, don't. He left you the choice therefor he must want you to execute it. So gather whatever info you need to make a good choice, then do it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to hibiscusamira)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 9:52:29 AM

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quote:

She (my girl - not literally the OP) can come to me to be comforted? Me, who put my *possession* in that situation to begin with? And when I face the fella in the mirror, I'll just write that off as an unforseen and unfortunate circumstance; ESPECIALLY the part about it being her *first* munch and I let her go unescorted by ANYONE???

And let's be clear, when I tell my girl (my possession) something is her choice, I'm not entirely off the hook if hindsight says she chose poorly or was unlucky.

Also, your two creative examples notwithstanding, there are infinitely more things that can ruin a night that aren't nearly so overt. Boredom comes to mind, for starters.... I assume you've been to munches - what do people mostly talk about? Other than some commentary on current issues, it usually breaks into sub-groups (nothing to do with submissives per se'... lol) of friends and acquaintances talking about shared experiences, BDSM or other. And as one whose been in that situation, it really sucks not knowing anyone present and your mind starts ragging you about "Why the fuck am I even here...?" - and the legs tend to take it from there....

Oh no. She might be bored. Truly the worst fate ever to befall someone and, of course, she would be trapped and unable to remove herself from the boring situation. Again - she's grown woman. She can assess the situation and leave (assuming she hasn't been ordered to stay till the end - highly unlikely in the OP's case since she isn't required to go).

I have attended munches and have never been bored because when the conversation lulls, I try to talk to someone new. I simply don't find the possiblity of being bored as threatening to a submissive's pysche as you do.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 1:21:46 PM

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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ehhh focus my "read" of your post is...ME TARZAN UBER DOM... you helpless sub jane .. you can't do anything for yourself without uber dom to guide you. not my style.

More like Me "Daboss man" <yes she sometime actually call me that cracks me up to no end>... you competent jane....i have trained you well enuff to think, make decision for yourself <kid analogy> so go ahead make a decision, make mistakes you will <as we all do> And you can count on me to be there thru it all.

If you rasie/train someone to "have to count" on somebody else you are doing them a huge diservice. To be afraid to be to try something new without someone holding your hand is nutz.

Im not saying my way is better or worse than your way of rasing /training someone. Im saying that is my way, and I dont agree with yours.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/5/2009 1:33:03 PM

Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Gasp the horror of doing something you have never done before! I mean terrible things can happen. Like you can met new ppl, try new things. Gain a little knowledge. And prolly the worst.... experience personal growth.

Not when it's specifically my friends they'd be meeting. That's the deciding factor for me and why I'd feel it was my obligation to introduce them.

That makes sense to meet my friends and me be there. It has happened both ways like in the OP situation.

Im not going to be on the boat tonight but if you want to go racing tell the crew your the "fresh meat" and have a good time. The crew will do there best to keep you from swimming home. Unless you really piss them off

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Apocalypso)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 4:04:47 AM

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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

ehhh focus my "read" of your post is...ME TARZAN UBER DOM... you helpless sub jane .. you can't do anything for yourself without uber dom to guide you. not my style.

More like Me "Daboss man" <yes she sometime actually call me that cracks me up to no end>... you competent jane....i have trained you well enuff to think, make decision for yourself <kid analogy> so go ahead make a decision, make mistakes you will <as we all do> And you can count on me to be there thru it all.

If you rasie/train someone to "have to count" on somebody else you are doing them a huge diservice. To be afraid to be to try something new without someone holding your hand is nutz.

Im not saying my way is better or worse than your way of rasing /training someone. Im saying that is my way, and I dont agree with yours.

It's not cool of me to be possessive and controlling of *MY possessions*? *gasp*

SailingBum, your reading of my posts says waaaay more about you than it does me.... <snort>

focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 4:21:31 AM

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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Oh no. She might be bored. Truly the worst fate ever to befall someone and, of course, she would be trapped and unable to remove herself from the boring situation. Again - she's grown woman. She can assess the situation and leave (assuming she hasn't been ordered to stay till the end - highly unlikely in the OP's case since she isn't required to go).

It's my own stupid fault; this is what I get for arguing with a submissive over matters only a Dominant's psyche can grasp or appreciate, as you're so ably demonstrating. You just don't get it that it has buggar-all to do with how much of a grown woman she is or whether she has the street smarts to "assess the situation" herself blah blah.

It has EVERYTHING to do with my property being representative of ME and that how I treat my possessions reflects on ME and that *anyone* attending a munch would know that. Anyone except you, apparently.... And would it count for anything (positive) that I regard myself as the old fashioned gentleman type who believes in looking after my woman, anyway? There are men, including Doms, who still do, regardless of what the average feral feminist may think! And (gasp), I've even known subs who actually appreciate being watched over and looked after and generally kept on a proverbial short leash etc....

Surely you can see there's a helluva lot more going on than just any ole social function; that terms like "trainer" and "possession" etc don't mean anything like what the average vanilla may rationalise? In a nutshell, it isn't just about the submissive!

quote:

I have attended munches and have never been bored because when the conversation lulls, I try to talk to someone new. I simply don't find the possiblity of being bored as threatening to a submissive's pysche as you do.

Enlighten me here....

Are you saying that because (apparently) you're a social livewire amongst strangers, then everyone is or should be? That the significant number of "wallflowers" I've seen at munches are doing "it" wrong? That being shy or introverted is a myth or just an excuse etc - that people should just "get over it"???

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 8:23:03 AM

Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

ehhh focus my "read" of your post is...ME TARZAN UBER DOM... you helpless sub jane .. you can't do anything for yourself without uber dom to guide you. not my style.

More like Me "Daboss man" <yes she sometime actually call me that cracks me up to no end>... you competent jane....i have trained you well enuff to think, make decision for yourself <kid analogy> so go ahead make a decision, make mistakes you will <as we all do> And you can count on me to be there thru it all.

If you rasie/train someone to "have to count" on somebody else you are doing them a huge diservice. To be afraid to be to try something new without someone holding your hand is nutz.

Im not saying my way is better or worse than your way of rasing /training someone. Im saying that is my way, and I dont agree with yours.

It's not cool of me to be possessive and controlling of *MY possessions*? *gasp*

SailingBum, your reading of my posts says waaaay more about you than it does me.... <snort>

focus.

but of course Im the Idiot and subject to your rather childish attempt to belittle me. As you can't add anything constructive to this discussion. That tactic may work in some fantasy uber dom world ...it doesn't work in mine.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 9:26:26 AM

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I've been following this thread with interest because of the reasons that were in My own reply. If the gentlemen who have been participating would be willing, I'd like to throw a few curiosities out there that have come to mind.

1. How much of your response has been based on the factor that it would be the girl's first munch?

2. How much of your response was based on the factor that said munch would be your 'home' munch?

3. If neither of these factors applied, meaning it wasn't her first or the munch you regularly attend, would your response have been the same?

4. If this discussion were brought by a male submissive, rather than a female, would you see it in the same light? (Yes, I know. None of you have male subs, but I'd appreciate your answer being in the hypothetical situation.)

Thank you for your time,

LP

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 9:54:05 AM

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For me, at least, it's a bit simpler than all that. Carol is an introvert. So sending her to a public function of any sort by herself is going to be stressful for her. However, I also like to challenge mine to grow and this is one area that she definitely NEEDS growth in. I fear that I'll die in my miata on the roads one day and she won't have any friends nor the skills to get any. When I met her she was alone and not likely to meet anyone. It would be irresponsible of me as her Master to allow that kind of exposure to continue any longer than necessary.

So this all boils down to... "If I was asking her to do this at all, then I'd have already determined that it was a reasonable growth experience for her." The factors about being somewhat "known" weigh into that, obviously. What doesn't weigh in at all are issues around her status as "slave". SHe's an adult and can deal with other adults in adult situations just fine.

What I do NOT do under any circumstances is challenge boundaries on a whim. Personally, I suspect that some of the debate on this thread is caused by people considering it either with different specific subs in mind or generically. I pretty much think that focus, myself and sailingbum would all more or less agree if we were looking at identical situations. I somehow doubt that SailingBum doesn't give a damn about the health and safety of his subs. I know for a fact based on previous postings that Focus isn't one to overcoddle. I think this "debate" is mostly just a thread run amok. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 10:05:14 AM

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Those are interesting questions and have made me think about my own reasoning more deeply. To go through the questions in turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
1. How much of your response has been based on the factor that it would be the girl's first munch?

That's a very minor factor for me. Partly because the fact it's a munch doesn't have any bearing on my reasoning. Practically, I'm not going to be able to be with a girl every time she enters a new social setting, even if I wanted to. I'm not going to be able to come with on the first day of a new job, for example.

Any importance that plays is largely conditional. Is she socially confident or is she shy? Does it finish late at night and how safe is the area? That kind of thing.

quote:

2. How much of your response was based on the factor that said munch would be your 'home' munch?

That's the crucial factor. If she's going to be meeting my friends I see it as my responsibility to introduce her to them.

quote:

3. If neither of these factors applied, meaning it wasn't her first or the munch you regularly attend, would your response have been the same?

Mostly not. Again that would be conditional. I'd want to go with her, particuarly if it was a regular munch she went to. But I wouldn't expect her to miss it if I was unable to.

quote:

4. If this discussion were brought by a male submissive, rather than a female, would you see it in the same light? (Yes, I know. None of you have male subs, but I'd appreciate your answer being in the hypothetical situation.)

Almost entirely the same. The only real difference is that I'd be less worried about whether it finished late in an unsafe area. Because, unfortunately, I do think that's more of an issue for females than males.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 10:47:08 AM

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1. How much of your response has been based on the factor that it would be the girl's first munch?

If I am talking with a girl and she is nervious about going to her first Munch, if it is one I go to then I will at least offer to meet her there and ease her into it. Thats girls I may not even have an interest in, ones where lack of compatability has already been found..... If thats how I am with just ANY girl, how much more so am I likely to take that approach, even enforce that approach with a girl I have taken on as playpartner/sub or Owned/slave?

2. How much of your response was based on the factor that said munch would be your 'home' munch?

My 'home' Munch is one I run, I am always happy to break the ice for any newbie that lets My know to keep an eye out for them, male or female, Dom/me or sub..... My a girl of Mine, I wouldn't be as bothered if she'd been before with Me, but her first time attending MY munch she would be with Me!

3. If neither of these factors applied, meaning it wasn't her first or the munch you regularly attend, would your response have been the same?

Not her first munch and not her first time at My home munch then so long as I knew someone who was going who could ice break for her then no problem.

4. If this discussion were brought by a male submissive, rather than a female, would you see it in the same light? (Yes, I know. None of you have male subs, but I'd appreciate your answer being in the hypothetical situation.) [/quote]

I've happily ice broke before for male subs, both in My home munch and at other munches/events so if I was that way inclined then I'd take the same approach. The difference not being the munch itself but the level of risk getting to/from the munch if alone as there are parts of London I wouldn't be particularly concerned about a lone male walking through where I wouldn't allow a girl of Mine to take the risk.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Would you let your possession go? - 5/6/2009 11:29:22 AM

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oh my, hasn't this just blown out of magnificent proportion lmfao

Chill folks - it was a simple question - give your opinion or don't but no need to overinflate everything

Go to the munch if your curious girl - don't if you don't want to. Simple as!

Munches are terribly boring functions to begin with so if you're not attending with a friend or otherwise significant other, I wouldn't pin too much hope on having a good time alone. No, you won't be molested / raped / tortured / or even flogged lol - It's a social, PUBLIC gathering of posturing "I know all about BDSM" people ~winks~

Either way, enjoy the night and do let everyone know if you finally did make the HORRIBLY, HUGE, DANGEROUS decision to go hahaha!

(in reply to RavenMuse)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Would you let your possession go?

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