RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance?

Post #: 101

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:27:01 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

And whats a healthy weight for one person is different for another. Which is why bmi is such a HORRIBLE indicator for ones health. I have decent muscle mass under my fat which isnt measured as part of my weight because theres fat over top, but im morbidly obese because of my weight. And a size 8 pants size means you have i think its a 36 waist. in most people to have a 36 waist means they are about 15 to 30 pounds over weight (not exact science mind you) 15 to 30 pounds over ideal weight for your height is classified on a bmi scale as slightly obese.

So Yes a size 8 is being obese even if its slightly...

Okay, now you've jumped to taking part of what I said and then skewing it to the emotional argument you're making.
Of course what is a healthy weight for one person may be different from another but a range of reasonability is going to be a good general indicator. You will also note that I mentioned not only weight, bmi, but also the prudence and expertise of a medical practitioner. It's not really as complicated as you're trying to make it.
Sure, on a really, really short person (Someone shorter than myself) an 8 could be obese. But, you're still all caught up in arguing non-medical sort of things (Like pants sizes which vary from manufacturer to manufacturer) against terms like obese.
It sucks to let it sink in but if you're markedly morbidly obese, you may not be unhealthy today but, unless you're a rarity, your joints are going to deteriorate more quickly, your body systems are under greater stress and are probably going to give out sooner, and you're more likely to die at a younger age than you would were you at a healthier weight.
Davan

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Post #: 102

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:33:58 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

And is Healthful decided for each and every person based on each and every person? No its not, its based on a generalized scale that is off base for most of the people measured on it. Bmi doesnt take in account muscle, or ones bone structure, ( yes it does matter someone with a less broad shoulders is going to weight less then someone with broader ones, why? it takes more skin and muscle to streach across a larger set of shoulders then a smaller one...

When im judged on a scale that takes account for MY body the way MY body is, ill be fine and dandy with whats healthy and what isnt.

I actually just spoke to this in my other reply but to recap: while it sucks, yeah, because you're morbidly obese, you're probably going to have your body break down more quickly and die at a younger age.
I think really, on some level, you don't feel sexy (there's the aesthetic piece) because of what you see and have seen in the media as attractive (Again, aesthetics, not necessarily health) but then you're lumping that in with terms like morbid obesity (Health) and discussions of matters medical (Again, health) and it just doesn't work.
You're already pissed, perhaps particularly at me (Which is okay), so I'm going to hazard a suggestion here: were you to truly tease out your understanding of and reactions to those terms, I'd bet you actually would be able to make more peace with yourself and interact with your body more healthfully. I don't, in any way, mena that in a mean fashion, it's just a couple of thoughts based on what you've said.
Davan

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Post #: 103

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:36:27 PM

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And you as a medical professional would know not all fat people are 100 pounds over weight of just fat, or are only over weight with fat.

Again to point out According to the health industry, people like [color="#000000" size="3"]Theodore Atkins Jr., Yaxeni Oriquen. Lee Priest, Victor Richards, Shawn Ray are all either rated on the weight scale as obese or morbidly obese. But they are still the leanest people in the world....

< Message edited by hopelessfool -- 5/15/2009 11:38:39 PM >

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Post #: 104

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:38:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
And a size 8 pants size means you have i think its a 36 waist.

I totally agree...
If the person who is the size 8 in question were two feet tall! But the size 8's in my closet are about a 28 or 29 inch waist, depending on the manufacturer and I am 5'5"

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Post #: 105

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:41:57 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

And you as a medical professional would know not all fat people are 100 pounds over weight of just fat, or are only over weight with fat.

Again to point out According to the health industry, people like [color="#000000" size="3"]Theodore Atkins Jr., Yaxeni Oriquen. Lee Priest, Victor Richards, Shawn Ray are all either rated on the weight scale as obese or morbidly obese.

Technically, I am a mental health professional with a really solid medical background. They weren't reports I'd generated, they were reports from doctors being presented at a hearing.
100 pounds overweight is so astonishingly far from anything reasonable in terms of weight, I'd defy you to find any doctor who would argue anyone that far above a normal weight range, regardless of the type of tissue causing the weight, wasn't in serious need of modification of their weight downward.
Again, you're looking for exceptions and while there are some, being a 'special' kind of morbidly obese probably isn't going to get you less dead at an earlier age than were you not.
Davan

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-Me

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Post #: 106

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:44:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
And a size 8 pants size means you have i think its a 36 waist.

I totally agree...
If the person who is the size 8 in question were two feet tall! But the size 8's in my closet are about a 28 or 29 inch waist, depending on the manufacturer and I am 5'5"

According to sizing charts a medium is a size 6/8 and its between a 30 and 36 waist.

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Post #: 107

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/15/2009 11:49:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

And you as a medical professional would know not all fat people are 100 pounds over weight of just fat, or are only over weight with fat.

Again to point out According to the health industry, people like [color="#000000" size="3"]Theodore Atkins Jr., Yaxeni Oriquen. Lee Priest, Victor Richards, Shawn Ray are all either rated on the weight scale as obese or morbidly obese.

Technically, I am a mental health professional with a really solid medical background. They weren't reports I'd generated, they were reports from doctors being presented at a hearing.
100 pounds overweight is so astonishingly far from anything reasonable in terms of weight, I'd defy you to find any doctor who would argue anyone that far above a normal weight range, regardless of the type of tissue causing the weight, wasn't in serious need of modification of their weight downward.
Again, you're looking for exceptions and while there are some, being a 'special' kind of morbidly obese probably isn't going to get you less dead at an earlier age than were you not.
Davan

Im not looking for exceptions, im pointing out that according to doctors, the people who are saying people are or are not unhealthy, are doing it on a general rule of thumb.
Im a healthy fat person for my body frame and knowledge of what my body consists of, yes i do have fat on my body, i also have very strong legs and a strong upper body. Now if my doctor would instead of just saying your fat, do i dont know a test on what my bodys made of Ie 10 percent body fat 20 percent body fat and so fourth, and not on oh gods you weigh x you gotta loose weight. Id gladdly accept that as a health standard, but saying hey your fat because you weigh x isnt a health standard. its using kindergarden math to push people to spending hundreds thousands of dollars on medication, on blood tests, and on special food to make them ... healthy....

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Post #: 108

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:09:14 AM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

So hey, as long as you're in good health, and you're happy with YOU, what more could you want?

For one, I'd like to be imposing enough to be taken seriously as an alpha male without having to project a super-Napoleon complex, but that's just me.

Bingo. Finally, I see this topic hit on the head.

There are any number of excuses and rationales to justify why anyone's weight is sitting where it is. The reality, is that if I wish to be taken seriously in any venue, I must demonstrate sincerity. If I am morbidly ___________ (fill in the blank here with any issue: obese, underweight, poorly dressed, arrogant, self-conscious, painfully shy, inept, etc etc etc) then I'm certainly not likely to play at the level that I do expect myself.

The reality is that some people like to play tennis casually, and would likely join a message board discussing tennis, or attend the occasional tennis workshop. And then there are some people who play it daily, play it hard, and make a lifetime commitment to training their bodies and mind to the highest degree. The 'pro' is no more important of a person than the casual player, has no greater rights or value than the casual player; but when the pros start discussing their training schedules, their techniques, their approach to their game, and casual players chime in with "well, that's too much for me, you really shouldn't be expecting me to play the way you do...." There's just a disconnect in goals.

For me, D/s relationships are a way for me to express my relationship, at the top of my game. I believe there's a world of difference between the way I love my woman, and the way I see the 'average joe' love his woman. This doesn't mean my way is inherently better than his, or that I have more rights to happiness than he does; but an alpha male (or female) is almost certainly going to have a less popular approach towards how they view and live their life.

The point I'm driving at is, for me, D/s relationships are an intense, highly energized means to express some of the most powerful feelings and emotions I've ever experienced. I simply cannot imagine being capable of expressing those powerful feelings and emotions, if I didn't already live a lifestyle that, by other perspectives, is probably turbocharged. I work best on six hours of sleep, ten hours of work, three cups of coffee, and five miles a day. Few people share that drive, and I don't expect anyone to understand it. I accept anyone, of any size; but to get support for my lifestyle, especially in a D/s context, the pickings are often slim. I'm fine with that.

Regards,

Stephan

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Post #: 109

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:16:44 AM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

For one, I'd like to be imposing enough to be taken seriously as an alpha male without having to project a super-Napoleon complex, but that's just me.

Bingo. Finally, I see this topic hit on the head.

There are any number of excuses and rationales to justify why anyone's weight is sitting where it is. The reality, is that if I wish to be taken seriously in any venue, I must demonstrate sincerity. If I am morbidly ___________ (fill in the blank here with any issue: obese, underweight, poorly dressed, arrogant, self-conscious, painfully shy, inept, etc etc etc) then I'm certainly not likely to play at the level that I do expect myself.

Very true! Although this leads to some interesting problems - someone could desperately want to NOT be morbidly underweight, morbidly self-conscious, etc., and yet have no capacity to change that, and desperately want to participate in some of the more "intense" angles of the lifestyle. Should such people give up on it, in the same way that a child in a wheelchair should give up on being an Olympic runner? I'm okay with that, as long as we're going to be honest about it - but I just want to know, should my skinny little ass give up on being taken seriously by the sorts of girls I like to make art out of? Should I "get out of the way" and stop trying to pretend to be a "real man"?

Because I'm okay with being told that - to my face - just as much as I'm okay with being able to actually pull off being as confident and desired as I am competent. But I don't want to sit here and be told "it's what's inside that counts!" when it very, very clearly isn't - and, I think, neither do most people on either side of the weight spectrum.

< Message edited by Ialdabaoth -- 5/16/2009 12:19:55 AM >

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Post #: 110

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:21:20 AM

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hopeless,
If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times that the clothing size charts you picked up in Oz don't apply here!

I GUARANTEE you that you are misreading whatever clothing size chart you googled. If you would take a step back and use your common sense, you'd realize that one pair of pants won't, no CAN'T, have a range of 6 inches in the waist.

You are obviously angry at someone and need to vent, which is fine. But attacking us here certainly won't fix it.

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Post #: 111

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:35:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

For one, I'd like to be imposing enough to be taken seriously as an alpha male without having to project a super-Napoleon complex, but that's just me.

Ialdabaoth,
What Napoleonic complex? 5'10" is hardly "short" and you look plenty imposing to me in those pics!

(beautiful outfits btw, did you make them?)

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Post #: 112

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:42:26 AM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

For one, I'd like to be imposing enough to be taken seriously as an alpha male without having to project a super-Napoleon complex, but that's just me.

Ialdabaoth,
What Napoleonic complex? 5'10" is hardly "short" and you look plenty imposing to me in those pics!

(beautiful outfits btw, did you make them?)

Indeed I did. :) As I have said, I am competent, if not confident. And the thing is... well... I'm more like 5'9.5", and about... 105 lbs. And I project the *aura* of a tiny man. I'm always second-guessing my confidence, because I would rather be correct then be seen as right. Put another way, I would rather be worthy of being followed, than have followers. So projecting the "follow me!" vibes usually requires that I out-compete men who seem to piss pure testosterone, which I rarely enjoy doing. Hence my bitterness. This is compounded, of course, by the fact that I'm aware of all this, and have a wry enjoyment of self-referential commentary, rather than the good sense to keep it stoically to my goddamn self.

On the other hand, I can train girls to walk in ballet boots, I can make AWESOME fetish outfits, I can do amazing rope suspension work, and I can hold my own in any field or topic you care to mention. I just can't prove to anyone that that's a worthwhile reason why anyone should give me the time of day. ;)

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Post #: 113

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 12:49:37 AM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

On the other hand, I can train girls to walk in ballet boots, I can make AWESOME fetish outfits, I can do amazing rope suspension work, and I can hold my own in any field or topic you care to mention. I just can't prove to anyone that that's a worthwhile reason why anyone should give me the time of day. ;)

Freaking hell, dude. I'd love being able to drag my camera over to your creations. My fault not even having bothered to look until I saw it mentioned.

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Post #: 114

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 1:04:01 AM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

On the other hand, I can train girls to walk in ballet boots, I can make AWESOME fetish outfits, I can do amazing rope suspension work, and I can hold my own in any field or topic you care to mention. I just can't prove to anyone that that's a worthwhile reason why anyone should give me the time of day. ;)

Freaking hell, dude. I'd love being able to drag my camera over to your creations. My fault not even having bothered to look until I saw it mentioned.

... Good Sir, if you ever want someone to design or make you costumes, plan out or execute scenes, etc., you have merely to say the word and we can begin planning. I'm financially bound to Tempe, AZ at the moment, in the guise of the starving college student, but it would be a distinct pleasure to work with you.

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Post #: 115

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 1:39:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

I would rather be correct then be seen as right. Put another way, I would rather be worthy of being followed, than have followers...
On the other hand, I can train girls to walk in ballet boots, I can make AWESOME fetish outfits, I can do amazing rope suspension work, and I can hold my own in any field or topic you care to mention.
... I just can't prove to anyone that that's a worthwhile reason why anyone should give me the time of day. ;)

That's just it. Don't try and prove it to ANYONE.

You just be you, for you, and people will notice. I am sure it has happened before. You probably get impatient waiting for it to happen again though don't you?

Trust me, it is really, really sexy when a man is just himself and doesn't try and prove anything to anyone but himself!
To thine own self be true

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Post #: 116

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 1:58:38 AM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

That's just it. Don't try and prove it to ANYONE.

You just be you, for you, and people will notice. I am sure it has happened before. You probably get impatient waiting for it to happen again though don't you?

Trust me, it is really, really sexy when a man is just himself and doesn't try and prove anything to anyone but himself!
To thine own self be true

I get more than impatient. I'm an artisté; I require an audience.

"You don't understand the humiliation of it - to be tricked out of the single assumption that makes our existence bearable: that somebody is watching. We are actors! We are the opposite of people!"

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 117

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 2:47:08 AM

Sunnyfey

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Well Ial I've told you once I've told you a thousand times,
Get your skinny ass over here. (says the 5'8 105lbs girl)
You + me + rope + ballet boots= We're gonna need some cheeseburgers and ice packs after cuz I'm gonna rule your skinny butt.

*skips away humming Im better then you are*

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Post #: 118

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 3:47:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

hopeless,
If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times that the clothing size charts you picked up in Oz don't apply here!

I GUARANTEE you that you are misreading whatever clothing size chart you googled. If you would take a step back and use your common sense, you'd realize that one pair of pants won't, no CAN'T, have a range of 6 inches in the waist.

You are obviously angry at someone and need to vent, which is fine. But attacking us here certainly won't fix it.

If you had read it you would see it is for both a size six general between 30 and 32 and a size 8 general which is a 34 and 36 and its considered a medium. And im saying that between 15 pairs of pants they can have a moderate difference in size. that being said most people/doctors consider people in a size 8 to be fat.. or over weight, in all the bmi charts ive ever seen 30 pounds over their recommended ideal weight is considered slightly obese. Usually someone with a 34 or 36 waist is considered over weight/unhealthy

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 119

RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? - 5/16/2009 6:44:45 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I want to apologize for a rather nasty rant. The reality is we all want our bad sides/traits/weakness overlooked in favor of whatever good things we are blessed with. I am at times a mean sob.

I read your 'rather nasty rant' and did a lot of nodding in agreement, Michael.
Guess I'm a nasty sob (or the female quuivalent, maybe just a b, eh?) too. :>
Davan

yeah, and I agreed with BOTH of your rather nasty rants :) I felt that given the amount of utter bullshit and self-deceit in this thread, they were both a breath of fresh air.

But aside from debating health and social issues regarding fat, what I really want to know is why is the following true:
a) I can prefer brunettes over blonds
b) I can prefer kinky women over nillas
c) I can prefer slaves over subs
d) I can prefer women instead of men
e) I can prefer active people over sedentary ones
f) I can prefer .... this list goes on...

But what I cannot, apparently, under any circumstances prefer, is slim women over fat ones. When I prefer brunettes over blondes, nobody rushes screaming to the boards to talk about my condemnation of blondes. And guess what, any blonde could be a brunette pretty quickly *laughs*.

Like most people my age, I am no longer 'naturally slim'. Nowadays, my weight creeps up rather alarmingly if left to it's own devices. So I pay attention to what I put in my mouth and I drag my ass onto the elliptical trainer regularly. I prefer women who are like-minded. Isn't that kind of how it works..... you select a like-minded partner?

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I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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