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RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 9:09:51 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If they actually go ahead with this I think the dems should start calling them the Bush/Nixon party. ;)

The capitalist/fascist party would be more accurate.

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RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 9:13:03 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jgwestla

And this has what to do with this website?

This 'website' has a blog called 'Politics and Religion' and you reading contributions to it on politics and religion.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 9:17:42 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     Anyway, now that I've sent my slave off to the store with clamps all over her tender bits, back to discussing the GOP comeback...

    The Democrat Party is now squarely in charge.  The honeymoon is over.  President Obama really didn't win by all that much.  If the middle starts getting buyers remorse, the Repubs are going to scoop them back up.   

Not in your wildest imagination...unless...

Unless of course most of the American electorate can still be fooled...most of the time. I am thinking...hoping, those days are finally over.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 9:36:36 AM   
servantforuse


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I think that if you asked the 800 union members from Kenosha whose jobs are moving to Mexico who got fooled I'm guessing they would say themselves. I would use hood winked instead of fooled though. I'm also guessing that Obama lost 800 votes the next time around.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 10:44:53 AM   
Owner59


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How is this Obama`s fault?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 10:48:22 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
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Lets see

Social security going broke date has shifted to 2 years earlier than previously predicted.

The tax cut for 95% of the people is seriously been negated as being doable anymore, so more than a few folks who were promised a tax cut will see that tax cut end after one or two years and then the increase will be set to try to make up the difference.

The Budget ballancing has been put on hold in favor of a first term that will break every record for spending

Multiple trillions of deficit spending which has had minimal effect in creating any new jobs

Spanish government report that tells us that for every green job it creates two old tech jobs are lost. Wonder how close our own results will match.

A Cap and Tax program that has been estimated to increase the average home electric bill by about $3000 a year.
with downstream price of manufacturing goods in the US increase yet to be calculated but which will certainly make sure even more manufacturing jobs get lost.

Health care program promised at the $700 billion range has increased to over $1 trillion cost and if history is repeated it should be close to 2 trillion by the time the final bill is written.

Ford closing plants GM closing plants Chrysler closing plants
All three closing dealerships   equals a huge job loss in the blue collar level, except that they ignored the rule of law and sidelined the secured interests of investers and surplanted them by making the union contract a secured holding ahead of the investers. So the jobs are lost but not the cost of the employee to the companies teatering on bankrupcy.

Porkulus package that has created no real number of jobs

New mileage standards that will no doubt result in further slipping of the 3 big american manufacturers market share in favor of Japanesse manufacturers, but that's ok the Japnessee plants are increaseing in the US and so long as they can keep the unions out they will continue to out produce the US brands.

But I can agree with the stemcell thing so he's not all bad. LOL





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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 10:49:12 AM   
servantforuse


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The Obama administration spent a couple of billion dollars to bail out Chrysler. Now as part of the deal plants in this country close and stimulus money is used to build a new plant in Mexico. How could it not be his doing ? It's his administration that approved all of this. 

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 10:52:25 AM   
Archer


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He signed the bill Owner69 it's all his baby at this point, his party wrote the bill passed it through congress and he signed it can't put that plant closing on Bush.
Lots of things you can put on Bush but this plant closing nope it's on Obama.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 11:28:39 AM   
Owner59


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It`s Chrystler`s management, that`s making this plan.

I constantly hear conservatives call Obama a "socialist" for "nationalizing" the auto industry,government micro-managing private industry.Meddling in the affairs of business,where he shouldn`t belong.Saying he shouldn`t be doing these things.How dare he!

Well, he wasn`t involved in this decision nor is he micro managing.

He is not a socialist and he did not nationalize anything.

This is a silly blame game by some folks who have a great thirst for blame.

Again,how exactly,is this Obama`s fault?What did he do, specifically?How long have these plans been on the table?

.~~~~~~~~~~~~

Great to see you, Archer

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 11:35:34 AM   
servantforuse


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The Obama administration attached strings to all of the bailout money. The feds do indeed have a say in how their businesses are now run. Just ask Rick Waggoneer the former CEO of Gm. He was ousted from the chair in order for GM to get it's own money at the trough. The Feds are also now dictateing just how big ( or small ) the new cars will be.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 12:07:18 PM   
Lucylastic


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What does Pres Obama have to do with the fact that  are 300  GM dealerships are closing here in canada by 2010, or the 11 to 12000 jobs gone at a Toronto GM  plant (direct and indirect losses). 
I see the fuel prices shooting up, I see people worried about the companies being bankrupt and not trusting them to honour their warranties. I see the shift away from big gas guzzlers and trucks, but no where do I see the hand of the "messiah" being mentioned.
One thing I noticed was that the lawyers  helping chrysler are charging 900 bucks an hour and asked a judge to make sure that they would be paid.

Also that since 2004 GM has losses of over 80 billion dollars.

Seems reasonable that "the one" takes responsibility.
Lucy


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 12:19:17 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Amazing how things get reported.  Here is a story about Steele opposing some stupid resolution some committee came up with, and the article closes with some Dem Party spokeshole saying those is no sign of Steele opposing the whackos in the party.  That lack of contact with reality is going to cost the Democrats large in the months and years ahead for this administration.

   


Well, no, that's not what the story was about.

I highlighted that section only to show that while Steele was claiming a change in party focus it was really the same old nonsense.  Instead of being concerned with the issues facing the country, you have a group of Republicans trying to pass some ridiculous resolution to disparage the Democratic Party.  Like children that never quite grew up.

Meanwhile, Steele is talking about how Obama is treated like an American Idol star and claiming the Republicans take issues more seriously.  Amazing irony, huh?

The main story was about Steele claiming the GOP had somehow transformed itself and his claim that Republicans represent "the ideas and concerns of the majority of Americans", while in the same sentence acknowledging they were the minority party.  So, I was curious how that worked. 

If they really did represent the views of most Americans then why are they the minority party?



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RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 12:54:31 PM   
cadenas


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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Lets see


Yes, let's

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Social security going broke date has shifted to 2 years earlier than previously predicted.


You mean, it has moved from 75 years in the future to 73 years? Is that 50 year or 60 years longer than any other government program? Social Security going broke is plain a myth. If you extend it out by enough years, everything will go broke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The tax cut for 95% of the people is seriously been negated as being doable anymore, so more than a few folks who were promised a tax cut will see that tax cut end after one or two years and then the increase will be set to try to make up the difference.


Probably because of Republican obstructionism and objections to taxing higher incomes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The Budget ballancing has been put on hold in favor of a first term that will break every record for spending


Every record? Even Bush's? I find that hard to believe. Bush singlehandedly turned a surplus into the largest deficit in US history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Multiple trillions of deficit spending which has had minimal effect in creating any new jobs


Still better than multiple trillions that led to major job losses in the previous administration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Spanish government report that tells us that for every green job it creates two old tech jobs are lost. Wonder how close our own results will match.


And in the 1980s, for every IT job created, we lost two jobs for secretaries and accounting clerks using pen and ink to keep books balanced. Maybe we should shut down Quickbooks, too?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
A Cap and Tax program that has been estimated to increase the average home electric bill by about $3000 a year.
with downstream price of manufacturing goods in the US increase yet to be calculated but which will certainly make sure even more manufacturing jobs get lost.


An average increase of $250/month? That's three times as much as I pay total. The cost must have gone up an awful lot for mansions then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Health care program promised at the $700 billion range has increased to over $1 trillion cost and if history is repeated it should be close to 2 trillion by the time the final bill is written.


Over decades. How much does private health insurance cost over the same time line?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Ford closing plants GM closing plants Chrysler closing plants


Due to the rise in oil prices under BUSH. And due to the utter failure of car companies to anticipate their customers needs. Wasn't there some theory that said that private enterprises would be far more efficient than government to deal with such situations?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
All three closing dealerships   equals a huge job loss in the blue collar level, except that they ignored the rule of law and sidelined the secured interests of investers and surplanted them by making the union contract a secured holding ahead of the investers. So the jobs are lost but not the cost of the employee to the companies teatering on bankrupcy.


Um.... investor's interests are UNSECURED. That's the point of investment. It's called risk. If you want it secured, get a savings account.

By law, in a bankruptcy, salaries and wages always come first. Then secured loans (such as mortgages), then unsecured loans (such as credit cards, or in this case bonds). If there still is anything left, investors get the rest.

NOT wiping out investors would have broken the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Porkulus package that has created no real number of jobs


You mean, like the Bridge to Nowhere? Oh wait. That was for Palin. Inserted by a Republican Senator in the middle of the night. On Bush's watch.

Or do you mean Tom Coburn's (Republican Senator) adding of the gun-in-national-parks to the credit card bill?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
New mileage standards that will no doubt result in further slipping of the 3 big american manufacturers market share in favor of Japanesse manufacturers.


Yep. It's called free market. If they can't deliver what the American people have resoundingly said they want (in the car dealership and on the ballot box both), these 3 big manufacturers have no businesses being in business. Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 12:59:46 PM   
cadenas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The Obama administration attached strings to all of the bailout money. The feds do indeed have a say in how their businesses are now run. Just ask Rick Waggoneer the former CEO of Gm. He was ousted from the chair in order for GM to get it's own money at the trough. The Feds are also now dictateing just how big ( or small ) the new cars will be.


Oh, thanks for explaining capitalism for me, I never realized that is how it worked: you start a business, don't worry if it is going to survive or even if you make the type of products customers buy, because if it doesn't work out, government will come in and give you unlimited bailout money with no strings attached until you convince your customers that they really should be buying your crappy products.

It's a lot clearer now. Thanks! How can I become a capitalist, too?


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 3:04:19 PM   
Archer


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Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Lets see


Yes, let's

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Social security going broke date has shifted to 2 years earlier than previously predicted.


You mean, it has moved from 75 years in the future to 73 years? Is that 50 year or 60 years longer than any other government program? Social Security going broke is plain a myth. If you extend it out by enough years, everything will go broke.

Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, a year sooner than projected last year, and the giant trust fund will be depleted by 2037, four years sooner, trustees reported. SO that's 7 years from now and then 28 years for broke.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The tax cut for 95% of the people is seriously been negated as being doable anymore, so more than a few folks who were promised a tax cut will see that tax cut end after one or two years and then the increase will be set to try to make up the difference.


Probably because of Republican obstructionism and objections to taxing higher incomes.


What a laugh at least have a factoid or two to back you.

Many economists, including some who voted for Obama, do not believe that he can indefinitely avoid imposing tax increases much further down the income scale — on the middle class.
“You just simply can’t tax the rich enough to make this all up,” said Martin A. Sullivan, a former economic aide in the Reagan administration who said he backed Obama last fall.
“Especially just for getting the budget to a sustainable level, there needs to be a broad-based tax increase,” said Sullivan, now a contributing editor at Tax Analysts publications. “If you want to do healthcare on top of that, almost certainly, it just makes [a middle-class tax increase] all the more certain.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obamas-tax-reckoning-2009-04-14.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The Budget ballancing has been put on hold in favor of a first term that will break every record for spending


Every record? Even Bush's? I find that hard to believe. Bush singlehandedly turned a surplus into the largest deficit in US history.

An annual deficit between $1.67 trillion and $1.85 trillion would mark a record in dollar terms and the highest as a share of gross domestic product since World War II. It would represent between 11.9% and 13.1% of GDP.

"According to CBO, the president's budget would double publicly held debt in five years and nearly triple it in ten years," Gregg said. "I strongly urge the Democratic majority to show the fiscal restraint needed to control spending, maintain a fair tax policy and cut the deficit, so that we can head off the avalanche of debt that is poised to crush the economy."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/20/news/economy/cbo_obama_budget_deficit/index.htm?postversion=2009032016


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Multiple trillions of deficit spending which has had minimal effect in creating any new jobs


Still better than multiple trillions that led to major job losses in the previous administration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Spanish government report that tells us that for every green job it creates two old tech jobs are lost. Wonder how close our own results will match.


And in the 1980s, for every IT job created, we lost two jobs for secretaries and accounting clerks using pen and ink to keep books balanced. Maybe we should shut down Quickbooks, too?

The point being Obama promised to grow the job market with "green jobs" the problem is the job market hasn't been shown to grow in reality when you go green. it in fact shrinks by 1/3. I'm not against going green I'm against the fact that Obama claimed he could create more jobs by doing it, even though the reports on it said it shrinks the job market.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
A Cap and Tax program that has been estimated to increase the average home electric bill by about $3000 a year.
with downstream price of manufacturing goods in the US increase yet to be calculated but which will certainly make sure even more manufacturing jobs get lost.


An average increase of $250/month? That's three times as much as I pay total. The cost must have gone up an awful lot for mansions then.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Health care program promised at the $700 billion range has increased to over $1 trillion cost and if history is repeated it should be close to 2 trillion by the time the final bill is written.


Over decades. How much does private health insurance cost over the same time line?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Ford closing plants GM closing plants Chrysler closing plants


Due to the rise in oil prices under BUSH. And due to the utter failure of car companies to anticipate their customers needs. Wasn't there some theory that said that private enterprises would be far more efficient than government to deal with such situations?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
All three closing dealerships   equals a huge job loss in the blue collar level, except that they ignored the rule of law and sidelined the secured interests of investers and surplanted them by making the union contract a secured holding ahead of the investers. So the jobs are lost but not the cost of the employee to the companies teatering on bankrupcy.


Um.... investor's interests are UNSECURED. That's the point of investment. It's called risk. If you want it secured, get a savings account.

By law, in a bankruptcy, salaries and wages always come first. Then secured loans (such as mortgages), then unsecured loans (such as credit cards, or in this case bonds). If there still is anything left, investors get the rest.

NOT wiping out investors would have broken the law.

WRONG stock holders were placed behind the union when it came to repayment should they company shut down and sell off assets. Stock holders have a legal place in line when a company goes bankrupt.
Obama chnaged the order of the line cutting the union in ahead of the stockholders in that line.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/05/04/chrysler-an-anti-union-backlash-in-financings/






quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Porkulus package that has created no real number of jobs


You mean, like the Bridge to Nowhere? Oh wait. That was for Palin. Inserted by a Republican Senator in the middle of the night. On Bush's watch.

Or do you mean Tom Coburn's (Republican Senator) adding of the gun-in-national-parks to the credit card bill?

Are you really that poor a reader/ thinker? The Porkulus (stimulus package) has created no real jobs as yet.

http://wire.factcheck.org/2009/05/01/fantasy-jobs/



quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
New mileage standards that will no doubt result in further slipping of the 3 big american manufacturers market share in favor of Japanesse manufacturers.


Yep. It's called free market. If they can't deliver what the American people have resoundingly said they want (in the car dealership and on the ballot box both), these 3 big manufacturers have no businesses being in business. Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?



LOLLLLLLL you have to be kidding the new mileage standards represent a free market???????????
That doesn't even rate a retort beyond this laugh.



< Message edited by Archer -- 5/20/2009 3:06:27 PM >

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 3:41:00 PM   
servantforuse


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Ralph Nader ( a true liberal ) was on Fox Business tonight with Neil Cavuto. He will be testifying before congress next week. It appears that GM is planning on moving their corporate headquarters to communist China. If this were to happen in Obamas first year it will be political suicide for him and the democrats. Naders info states that GM now sells more cars in China than here and can eliminate union jobs making those cars. Now how do the unions that put him in office feel. Bend over...

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 4:01:59 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Ralph Nader ( a true liberal ) was on Fox Business tonight with Neil Cavuto.



Nader is SO credible. Your concern is completely understandable.

Edited for missing 't'.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/20/2009 4:14:33 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 4:09:59 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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I'm tellin' ya, Obama is the greatest persuader ever to occupy the Oval Office. Who would have thought that in just 4 short months, he'd have Servantforuse believing something Ralph Nader said? 

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 4:13:58 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'm tellin' ya, Obama is the greatest persuader ever to occupy the Oval Office. Who would have thought that in just 4 short months, he'd have Servantforuse believing something Ralph Nader said? 




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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Steele says GOP comeback has started - 5/20/2009 7:40:37 PM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Lets see


Yes, let's

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Social security going broke date has shifted to 2 years earlier than previously predicted.


You mean, it has moved from 75 years in the future to 73 years? Is that 50 year or 60 years longer than any other government program? Social Security going broke is plain a myth. If you extend it out by enough years, everything will go broke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, a year sooner than projected last year, and the giant trust fund will be depleted by 2037, four years sooner, trustees reported. SO that's 7 years from now and then 28 years for broke.


So you are saying that when today's college kids retire, Social Security might be at a point where the Federal Government has already been since Ronald Reagan? Boo-Hoo, scary.

The Federal government paid more than it collected in taxes since Roland Reagan, with the exception of the Clinton Surplus - and it doesn't have another huge savings account to draw on.

Incidentally, the CBO (whom you quote further down yourself) expects the trust fund to last until 2052, and even after that Social Security will be able to continue to be solvent until your 110th birthday, around 2075.

What you are also conveniently forgetting is that these are extremely long-term guesstimates. NO budget, projections more than five years into the future are no more tha vague ballpark numbers. The only thing reliable about it is: this will be many decades in the future. A change of a year one way or the other is just a mathematical gimmick with no real meaning. Can you tell me, to the day, when you will outlive your 401(k)? It's no different on the big picture.

Maybe before we get too concerned about Social Security, we should worry about military spending (which is where the lion's share of the Federal dollars go).


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The tax cut for 95% of the people is seriously been negated as being doable anymore, so more than a few folks who were promised a tax cut will see that tax cut end after one or two years and then the increase will be set to try to make up the difference.


Probably because of Republican obstructionism and objections to taxing higher incomes.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
What a laugh at least have a factoid or two to back you.

Many economists, including some who voted for Obama, do not believe that he can indefinitely avoid imposing tax increases much further down the income scale — on the middle class.
“You just simply can’t tax the rich enough to make this all up,” said Martin A. Sullivan, a former economic aide in the Reagan administration who said he backed Obama last fall.
“Especially just for getting the budget to a sustainable level, there needs to be a broad-based tax increase,” said Sullivan, now a contributing editor at Tax Analysts publications. “If you want to do healthcare on top of that, almost certainly, it just makes [a middle-class tax increase] all the more certain.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obamas-tax-reckoning-2009-04-14.html



... believe... ... indefinitely... said a former economic aide in the Reagan administration ...

Forgive me for not taking this very seriously. Even when he "claims" to have supported Obama. Probably for about two days of his career.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The Budget ballancing has been put on hold in favor of a first term that will break every record for spending


Every record? Even Bush's? I find that hard to believe. Bush singlehandedly turned a surplus into the largest deficit in US history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
An annual deficit between $1.67 trillion and $1.85 trillion would mark a record in dollar terms and the highest as a share of gross domestic product since World War II. It would represent between 11.9% and 13.1% of GDP.

"According to CBO, the president's budget would double publicly held debt in five years and nearly triple it in ten years," Gregg said. "I strongly urge the Democratic majority to show the fiscal restraint needed to control spending, maintain a fair tax policy and cut the deficit, so that we can head off the avalanche of debt that is poised to crush the economy."


a) Don't forget that Bush routinely excluded the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars from the budget to make the numbers look better. If he had been honest and included those expenses, his deficit would have dwarfed those numbers.

b) It might help to mention that the "Gregg" this opinion is from is Judd Gregg, R-NH. I wish he had told that Bush Jr. - who DID double the national debt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Multiple trillions of deficit spending which has had minimal effect in creating any new jobs


Still better than multiple trillions that led to major job losses in the previous administration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Spanish government report that tells us that for every green job it creates two old tech jobs are lost. Wonder how close our own results will match.


And in the 1980s, for every IT job created, we lost two jobs for secretaries and accounting clerks using pen and ink to keep books balanced. Maybe we should shut down Quickbooks, too?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The point being Obama promised to grow the job market with "green jobs" the problem is the job market hasn't been shown to grow in reality when you go green. it in fact shrinks by 1/3. I'm not against going green I'm against the fact that Obama claimed he could create more jobs by doing it, even though the reports on it said it shrinks the job market.


Um... It seems to me that there is no point.

- Your statement isn't even backed up by a source. Not even an opinion by some Republican politician reported in some media outlet. Just some reference to some obscure Spanish papers.
- Over which time frame? A year?
- What happened to the jobs that were neither "green" nor "tech"? What about jobs that were both?
- How did they define "green" and "tech" jobs in the first place?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
All three closing dealerships   equals a huge job loss in the blue collar level, except that they ignored the rule of law and sidelined the secured interests of investers and surplanted them by making the union contract a secured holding ahead of the investers. So the jobs are lost but not the cost of the employee to the companies teatering on bankrupcy.


Um.... investor's interests are UNSECURED. That's the point of investment. It's called risk. If you want it secured, get a savings account.

By law, in a bankruptcy, salaries and wages always come first. Then secured loans (such as mortgages), then unsecured loans (such as credit cards, or in this case bonds). If there still is anything left, investors get the rest.

NOT wiping out investors would have broken the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
WRONG stock holders were placed behind the union when it came to repayment should they company shut down and sell off assets. Stock holders have a legal place in line when a company goes bankrupt.
Obama chnaged the order of the line cutting the union in ahead of the stockholders in that line.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/05/04/chrysler-an-anti-union-backlash-in-financings/


Yep. Stockholders do have a legal place - at the very end of the line, after EVERYBODY else.

And incidentally, the OPINION piece that you cite as evidence doesn't even touch on stockholders.

Incidentally, you may also want to mention that unions also took over huge liabilities for healthcare and retirees - which is why they got what they did in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Porkulus package that has created no real number of jobs


You mean, like the Bridge to Nowhere? Oh wait. That was for Palin. Inserted by a Republican Senator in the middle of the night. On Bush's watch.

Or do you mean Tom Coburn's (Republican Senator) adding of the gun-in-national-parks to the credit card bill?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Are you really that poor a reader/ thinker? The Porkulus (stimulus package) has created no real jobs as yet.

http://wire.factcheck.org/2009/05/01/fantasy-jobs/



You may want to re-read your own factcheck reference, because it basically confirms Obama's claim about the package. He said "saved or created". Without it, we would have lost even more jobs.

And the data is supporting that; the job losses - which started before he ever became President - are leveling off.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
New mileage standards that will no doubt result in further slipping of the 3 big american manufacturers market share in favor of Japanesse manufacturers.


Yep. It's called free market. If they can't deliver what the American people have resoundingly said they want (in the car dealership and on the ballot box both), these 3 big manufacturers have no businesses being in business. Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
LOLLLLLLL you have to be kidding the new mileage standards represent a free market???????????


Just a reflection of what the market already wanted and for the longest time couldn't buy at all. That is, until the Prius and Insight came along. Mileage standards a decade ago would have forced GM and Chrysler to invest and actuallly sell such cars instead of Hummers could have saved them now from "further slipping behind the Japanese" as you put it.

Are you aware of the EV-1? GM built it in the 1990s. It flew off store shelves like crazy. People wanted them, and there was a huge waiting list. Then GM simply pulled the plug on it. Because GM had refused to sell the car, only lease it, three years later GM scrapped all of the lease returns.


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 60
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