RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s absolutely torture"

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RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 4:01:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u

You liberals need to stop being so damn pretentiously sanctimonious. Advanced interrogation techniques work and are necessary in a world where terrorists cut people's heads off and fly planes into buildings.

Well, I'm not in favor of torture as official policy. But I do think some "advanced techniques" might hold promise in this situation. We are extremely offended by beheadings and terrorist attacks on civilians. But the terrorists are not similarly offended by suffering torture in the cause of Allah. So personally, I think something more along the lines of offense-for-offense would do more good. Instead of torturing them, I think we should shave their legs, turn them out in pretty little pink dresses with high heels, blonde wigs, lipstick and makeup, and then distribute their photos generously, with bold captions identifying their names. I suspect recruitment would suffer a pause with that kind of potential consequence looming ahead of them. Any virgins in their future would be laughing too hard to fuck.

But hey, nevermind. I'm just having a strange day. Carry on.

K.

As an anti-recruiting strategy it might hold promise. Unfortunately for gathering intelligence quickly all its likely to get you is the address and secret code to the nearest gay bar.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 4:35:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Libertarianism is definitely right wing as the term is traditionally defined...in fact it is far right wing, closer to facism than it is to even modern day "conservatism".

WHAT?

Facism is authortarian. Libertarianism is an anti-authortarian. The two could not possibly be farther apart.

Not in the classical sense of the words:

"On the right wing vs left wing diagrams above, socialism and libertarianism fall outside the realm of democracy. Whereas modern liberalism and American conservatism are best seen as heuristics (decision-making shortcuts), socialism and libertarianism are ideologies which invariably lead to tyranny."

[Mod Note: image removed]

Socialism is the govt. ownership of the means of production...nothing more. Socialism could be as democratic and in republican form as easily as capitalism and is the least likely to lead to tyranny.

For example, for the US govt. to have a majority stake in AIG, is socialism. For the Unions to have 55% of GM...is NOT. For the govt. to compel such an ownership arrangement is to replace the bankruptcy courts not only for financing but also in compelling investors to take the hit instead of the employees and retirees taking the hit.

American conservatism has been in fact a form of corporatism who would and did protect AIG investors (Goldman-Sachs for one) made them whole and paying bonuses while letting GM and it employees/retirees to go to hell or at least...back to work.

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:03:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Waterboarding isn't torture. If you want to see a victim of real torture, go to "bloody intersection" and just wait. That is, if the Taliban ever regains control of it....

My father had what was an accidental waterboarding - he was overloaded with fluid while in end-stage congestive heart failure.

My mom said he was writhing in bed (within 5 days of a hip replacement!) because he was suffocating. He had nightmares for months (so much so that he was on Valium for awhile) and now calls it his "waterboarding session."

So yeah, it's torture.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:20:51 PM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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"But I do think some "advanced techniques" might hold promise in this situation."

They may also hold great peril.

That`s the biggest problem with the argument.

Torture ,whatever name you give it,doesn`t work.

It`s not accurate and you get a bunch of bullshit info.The guy will say anything,to make it stop.That`s not good intel work.That`s just lazy.

dick,the vice torturer, claimed that using "enhanced interrogation" showed that there was WMD in Iraq and an Iraqi link to a-queda,Neither of which were true.

Then, we find out that torture wasn`t used to find links,but to force false confessions of links.Proof that torture doesn`t work for getting info.Proof that torture works well for getting false intel.

And or military are shown small doses of water-boarding to prepare them for what often happens to captured soldiers,torture to get false confessions.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/24/2009 5:27:18 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:21:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

[Socialism is the govt. ownership of the means of production...nothing more. Socialism could be as democratic and in republican form as easily as capitalism and is the least likely to lead to tyranny.

There is always tyranny under socialism...the tyranny of equality and the accompanying loss of freedom. And it is not "least likely" to lead to the other form of tyranny, it is inevitable. As more and more of the means of production are owned by the government the proletariat moves further towards dictatorship.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:23:56 PM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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We just had an eight year dictatorship,tyvm....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:30:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"But I do think some "advanced techniques" might hold promise in this situation."

They may also hold great peril.

That`s the biggest problem with the argument.

Torture ,whatever name you give it,doesn`t work.

It`s not accurate and you get a bunch of bullshit info.The guy will say anything,to make it stop.That`s not good intel work.That`s just lazy.

If you are going to respond to my posts, do me the courtesy of reading them?

K.

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:41:30 PM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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Not interest est in your quibbles.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:48:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: harddaddy4u

Marines are waterboarded as part of their training. Big deal.

If waterboarding some slimebag terrorist will prevent the loss of one American life, then of course we should do it.
It has already proven beneficial in getting information that prevented other terrorist acts - that's a matter of record, even if the naive, pro-appeasement Obama administration won't release the memos proving it.

You liberals need to stop being so damn pretentiously sanctimonious. Advanced interrogation techniques work and are necessary in a world where terrorists cut people's heads off and fly planes into buildings. And no amount of sitting around singing "Kumbaya" is going to change the fact that there are evil people who want to destroy us.

Liberals blamed Bush for not preventing 9-11, and then they spent the rest of his presidency trying to hamstring his efforts in trying to prevent another one.

Which he succeeded in doing, by the way - no thanks to the American left.

Torture as an interrogation technique. To quote Nice guy Eddie:

"You can torture a guy into telling you he started the Chicago fire. BUT IT DOESEN'T MAKE IT FUCKING SO."

(in reply to harddaddy4u)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:51:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"But I do think some "advanced techniques" might hold promise in this situation."

They may also hold great peril.

That`s the biggest problem with the argument.

Torture ,whatever name you give it,doesn`t work.

So you are basically saying that ALL enhanced interrogation techniques are torture? Are you sure that is your stance? Kirata specifically said he does not support torture, or did you miss that?

Before you answer maybe you should do some research. I just did and found some that would not classify as torture in anyone's logical definition.

quote:

dick,the vice torturer, claimed that using "enhanced interrogation" showed that there was WMD in Iraq and an Iraqi link to a-queda,Neither of which were true.

I missed this somewhere in the last few years. Could you help me out with a link to Cheney stating exactly that.

quote:

And or military are shown small doses of water-boarding to prepare them for what often happens to captured soldiers,torture to get false confessions.

Here is a good question: Should the CIA, NSA or any other US Intelligence agency be held to the same standards if they are only interrogating for intelligence gathering? I do not mean torture, but there are enhanced interrogation techniques that is not in the revised 2006 Military Guide.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:54:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

So you are basically saying that ALL enhanced interrogation techniques are torture? Are you sure that is your stance? Kirata specifically said he does not support torture, or did you miss that?

Hell, my post wasn't even about an "interrogation technique"! Good luck with getting him to read yours.

K.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/24/2009 5:56:04 PM

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Yeah but I can hope for change ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

So you are basically saying that ALL enhanced interrogation techniques are torture? Are you sure that is your stance? Kirata specifically said he does not support torture, or did you miss that?

Hell, my post wasn't even about an "interrogation technique"! Good luck with getting him to read yours.

K.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 8:16:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

and BHO has done nothing in his life that in any way deserves respect

I'm no fan of Obama, but I know better than to believe the complete invalidation of anyone's life is legitimate.

It sounds like a comment of someone that considers Obama his/her enemy. OK. Any are entitled to view him as such. But it completely disregards the wisdom of Sun Su, in "The Art of War," where he in essence says it is a really bad idea to underestimate, or take for granted, your opponent.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 9:15:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

and BHO has done nothing in his life that in any way deserves respect

I'm no fan of Obama, but I know better than to believe the complete invalidation of anyone's life is legitimate.

It sounds like a comment of someone that considers Obama his/her enemy. OK. Any are entitled to view him as such. But it completely disregards the wisdom of Sun Su, in "The Art of War," where he in essence says it is a really bad idea to underestimate, or take for granted, your opponent.

Uncle Nasty

Not respecting someone is not a "complete invalidation of anyone's life".

(in reply to UncleNasty)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 9:39:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is always tyranny under socialism...the tyranny of equality and the accompanying loss of freedom.

So, then you would define inequality as freedom and the absence of tyranny?

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 9:42:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is always tyranny under socialism...the tyranny of equality and the accompanying loss of freedom.

So, then you would define inequality as freedom and the absence of tyranny?

No, and if you think my statement implies that, then you need to take a logic course.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 9:44:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is always tyranny under socialism...the tyranny of equality and the accompanying loss of freedom.

So, then you would define inequality as freedom and the absence of tyranny?

...i've seen the existence of inequality argued as evidence of freedom and the absence of tyranny. Not saying i necessarily agree. Although there is a grain of truth in it. However degree is also important. A bit of inequality may well be evidence of an absence of tyranny. A lot of inequality may well be proof of the existence of tyranny.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 9:53:26 AM

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No, I don't think your statement implied that at all, I think it quite clearly stated that.

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 9:56:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

There is always tyranny under socialism...the tyranny of equality and the accompanying loss of freedom.

So, then you would define inequality as freedom and the absence of tyranny?

...i've seen the existence of inequality argued as evidence of freedom and the absence of tyranny. Not saying i necessarily agree. Although there is a grain of truth in it. However degree is also important. A bit of inequality may well be evidence of an absence of tyranny. A lot of inequality may well be proof of the existence of tyranny.

"may well be" are the key words. Eg there is a lot of inequality in the US, with considerable freedom and no tyranny (yet).

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Right Wing Radio Host Water-boarded.."it`s abs... - 5/25/2009 10:05:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...i've seen the existence of inequality argued as evidence of freedom and the absence of tyranny. Not saying i necessarily agree. Although there is a grain of truth in it. However degree is also important. A bit of inequality may well be evidence of an absence of tyranny. A lot of inequality may well be proof of the existence of tyranny.

Neither capitalism nor socialism equates to complete freedom and absence of tyranny.

Which was my point.

To claim socialism is tyranny and a loss of freedom is to be going through life with ideological blinders on.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 5/25/2009 10:07:59 AM >

(in reply to philosophy)

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