RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in Afghanistan?!

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RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 10:36:20 AM

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I believe in the mission to Afghanistan to stop people, the Taliban, who are obviously rabidly anti -modern civilization and against every belief we hold dear. People who have plotted attacks against us in the past, and will do so again with every power in their disposal if they get the chance. People who are downright barbaric and brutal towards women.
However - handing out bibles in a muslim country does not win you friends. We are here to maintain order in the modern world, not go on some fool's crusade.
Iraq was by in large a) about the oil / military contractors and b) a failure and a bad idea.

I am pagan , a religion that long dissapeared from most of it's old strongholds on the earth. We claim many religious shrines as converted pagan temples, once belonging to us. It's kind of entertaining to do. However, it really is more important to maintain your household altar :)

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 10:59:13 AM

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At its core, I'm really for whatever keeps me and mine safe and healthy.
That having been said, I am of rather complicated opinion on this whole bible issue. I'm not a Christian and I'm fairly sure the whole 911 thing (And related incidents) are, among other things, revenge for The Crusades. And, one could argue that we're Crusading again. Lots of death and destruction in the name of God (And, the same God, no less).
So, part of me wants to say that religion needs to be stripped out of everything but that's not going to happen.
I am far more comfortable, however, with an individual service member prostelatizing than am I with policy that has obvious religious undertones or overtones, for that matter.
Another angle, though, is freedom of speech. Now, I know that when our service members sign on the dotted line, part of that is giving up certain constitutional rights but I have to say that I'd support the idea of free speech (Related to the peaceful dissemination of bibles or whatever).
And, since we're speaking of service members and it's Memorial Day, I wish to offer a genuine 'thank you' to all of the men and women who serve and/or have served in our armed forces.
Davan

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RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 11:18:49 AM

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The reason this is so easy to believe ,(besides of hearing it from the soldiers themselves,Orion)is that there is a general Evangelizing of our military.Mostly,the Air Force.

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=4630490&m=4630491

and

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=4630490&m=4630491

It`s not Christians in general,it`s the Evengelicals that are the problem.Saving people may be a wholey sincere and heartfelt endever for Enengelical Christians,but it`s also a wholey selfish one too.A part of their own salvation.

If a church really wanted to help,they`d figure out a way to get dental care there,in force.Most people go un-treated and live lives of misery from oral decay and infections.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/25/2009 11:19:52 AM >

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(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 3:02:55 PM

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You ignore shit very easily. You got your news from youtube, and then pressed on the validity of it actually happening. Now Obama is the President, and he is behind everything to make sure it is run properly.

Here is how it breaks down. Al Jazeera runs a story on it, based upon that video clip you showed. No confirmation was done on whether bibles were handed out. When the military was asked about eh incident their response was/is:

"Col. Julian said the video was edited and only tells half the story. Had the video of the troops with the Bibles been played through, it would have shown that the chaplain instructed that the Bibles not be distributed, Col. Julian said. "

""He didn't break any rules," said Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Mark Wright, because the military was able to confiscate the Bibles before they were distributed. CENTCOM's general order No. 1 forbids U.S. soldiers from proselytizing. "

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/04/military-accused-handing-bibles-afghanistan/

Now a day after this ran on FOX, Reuters runs a story with even more information in it.

""I can now confirm that the Bibles shown on Al Jazeera's clip were, in fact, collected by the chaplains and later destroyed. They were never distributed," spokeswoman Major Jennifer Willis said at Bagram air base, north of Kabul. "

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5441JH20090505

The fucking bibles were confiscated O59, but you neglected to put any of that in your OP. Instead you ran with the propoganda and proceeded to tar and feather these guys.

THE BIBLES WERE NEVER GIVEN OUT.

Refute that or not. I believe everyone else can see what occured here.

If I had discovered they had been given out, I would be up in arms about that, but they were not given out. From everything I researched on it, it was 2 bibles in question, not cases of them or anything else. Those bibles were confiscted.

Do you need it simplified more? Do you need more links to the statements? Admit it, you screwed up and provided a slanted view of it, that wound up not being the truth. Read your OP.

Now if you want to talk about what they discussed, currently discuss, and what they would like to do, that is fine. In this particular instance though, THE BIBLES WERE NOT HANDED OUT.

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(in reply to Owner59)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 3:13:02 PM

RCdc

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You know Owner, it really helps if you get your words correct because you are making a sweeping shitty judgement on people who do not necessarily deserve it.
It's erksome that people misuse words like evangelist and evangelical.

An evangelical has a strong personal conviction and follows a biblical truth known to them(Teachings of Jesus). They are not necessarily Evangelistic.(They follow).
An evangelist is a person who seeks to share the gospel. (They proselytize).

Similar words. Totally different.

the.dark.

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(in reply to Owner59)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 3:19:59 PM

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Owner.. in your own words you called "these men" con men... I would call that a slam on the people in uinform over there. The far right is not the only side with propaganda... thank you for offering us some from the far left as well. We in the center would like for both sides to keep it up. That way maybe we can get more of these ass clowns out of office next time.

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(in reply to RCdc)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 3:39:43 PM

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quote:

Saving people may be a wholey sincere and heartfelt endever for Enengelical Christians,but it`s also a wholey selfish one too.A part of their own salvation.

A Christians salvation has ZERO to do with helping others

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to Owner59)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 4:04:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

A Christians salvation has ZERO to do with helping others

34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37: Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38: When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39: Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

~Matthew 25:34-46

K.

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 4:07:30 PM

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Again....works of ANY kind have ZERO to do with salvation from Christ.

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RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 4:11:15 PM

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MAYBE I AM WAYYYY OFF HERE...

Aren't there Afghanistan laws against proselytizing??

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 4:15:22 PM

slavefortpeasap

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Joined: 4/23/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I'm not a Christian and I'm fairly sure the whole 911 thing (And related incidents) are, among other things, revenge for The Crusades. And, one could argue that we're Crusading again. Lots of death and destruction in the name of God (And, the same God, no less).
So, part of me wants to say that religion needs to be stripped out of everything but that's not going to happen.

I don't think the Crusades played much of a part for the terrorists before 9-11. Their form of Islam hates modernity, and anything that isn't Islam. Also, I don't think the West is Crusading in Iraq since there are so many different versions of Christianity in the West now, and the Crusades were under one cross. Finally, once you take religion out of everything, you wind up with Robespierre, Stalin, and Hitler. No thanks.

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 4:20:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Again....works of ANY kind have ZERO to do with salvation from Christ.

Indeed, there is nothing anyone can do, no act that can be performed in order to acquire salvation, its all down to faith - and yet "faith without works is dead" I believe?

Which is where it all gets a bit tricky I suppose, unless one is clear that the works stem from the faith et al?

E

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RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 5:39:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

...i've got an order of pitchforks and flaming torches here.......who's going to sign for them?

i prefer the flaming torch to see through all the b.s and the pitchfork i can lean on.
not a christian, but do know it is for some to preach the word of Jesus. It has been done , is being done and will be done. I am not a mob though, prefer to stay out of mob mentality.

< Message edited by oceanwinds -- 5/25/2009 5:56:54 PM >

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RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 5:55:29 PM

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The debate is out on that. If you truly accept and believe, then helping others will occur. Kirata posted a good one on that. Some of the translation may differ slightly depending upon the version you use, but the idea and presmise is still the same.

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

Saving people may be a wholey sincere and heartfelt endever for Enengelical Christians,but it`s also a wholey selfish one too.A part of their own salvation.

A Christians salvation has ZERO to do with helping others

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 6:08:56 PM

Posts: 530
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

At its core, I'm really for whatever keeps me and mine safe and healthy.
That having been said, I am of rather complicated opinion on this whole bible issue. I'm not a Christian and I'm fairly sure the whole 911 thing (And related incidents) are, among other things, revenge for The Crusades. And, one could argue that we're Crusading again. Lots of death and destruction in the name of God (And, the same God, no less).
So, part of me wants to say that religion needs to be stripped out of everything but that's not going to happen.
I am far more comfortable, however, with an individual service member prostelatizing than am I with policy that has obvious religious undertones or overtones, for that matter.
Another angle, though, is freedom of speech. Now, I know that when our service members sign on the dotted line, part of that is giving up certain constitutional rights but I have to say that I'd support the idea of free speech (Related to the peaceful dissemination of bibles or whatever).
And, since we're speaking of service members and it's Memorial Day, I wish to offer a genuine 'thank you' to all of the men and women who serve and/or have served in our armed forces.
Davan

Regarding 9/11, i know more then a few astrologers who have linked that to the Trail of Tears as well in regards to karma. But i not going to expound on that.

All through history of the Christian religion converting others was the key ideal for them, because of their belief that this is the only way to heaven. Why would they act differently now?

I do not know the exact details of "Christian" Soliders handing out bibles, and the media is never not slanted to give it much credit. Being raised Jewish and having Christianity shoved down my throat as a 'gift', by being given the bible, i can see why it should not be done. That though comes from a personal factor and not knowing the facts. Now being a pagan, i still get people trying to convert me in the name of their god as a gift to save my soul. This will never stop, it is their belief. It would be nice if they didnt have this need to, however nice and realistic just doesnt connect.

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 6:09:30 PM

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So as not to derail the thread if anyone would like to contact me via collarme email i'd be happy to explain why works are not apart of Christ's salvation for us.

_____________________________

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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 8:53:06 PM

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

A Christians salvation has ZERO to do with helping others

34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37: Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38: When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39: Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

~Matthew 25:34-46

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Again....works of ANY kind have ZERO to do with salvation from Christ.

And here all these years I always thought Christ was the King.

No wonder modern Christians make no sense to me.

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 9:33:02 PM

Posts: 285
Status: offline

[/quote]

I'm guessing you missed the bit where Jesus told his followers to sell their clothes to buy swords...
[/quote]

Peter had just said he would follow Christ to prison or to death. Christ remarked that Peter would deny him three times before the rooster crowed. The shit was about to come down as the soldiers were minutes away from apprehending Christ. The remark about selling their coats and buying a sword might have been a way of him saying that if they were fearful of their lives to go get a sword and miss out on all the fun. When it was reported that they had two swords he said that was enough. When one of the soldiers had a piece of his ear removed by one of those swords, Christ reportedly healed it. I don't see that as him advocating the use of a sword. As far as him saying that he is not coming in peace, but with a sword may also just be a figure of speech meaning he is coming to divide the wheat from the shaft. We all will someday "buy the farm" but in no means will we all own one.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 9:38:13 PM

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To be a Christian is to strive to be "Christlike".
Do you thinkJesus sat around and said, I'm the Son of God. I'm already saved. I know I'm going to heaven. Ya'll can just help yourelves and feed and clothe yourselves. I don't need to do anything for you because I'm already saved.

Yes, it is true that salvation comes from te Baptism. But to claim to be Christian, you have to strive to be like Christ.

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Again....works of ANY kind have ZERO to do with salvation from Christ.

_____________________________

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(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: "Christian"Soldiers Handing Out Bibles in... - 5/25/2009 9:47:32 PM

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

So as not to derail the thread if anyone would like to contact me via collarme email i'd be happy to explain why works are not apart of Christ's salvation for us.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to breatheasone)

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