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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/4/2009 12:35:13 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
La Raza is racist the same way that NAACP is racist. 
An interesting remark. Now should that be interpreted as support or criticism of both?
Cubes are to square holes as spheres are to round holes.

Now should that be interpreted as support or criticism of both?

K.

They have an extra dimention to their existence?

It's fair to say, in a good faith discussion, that there's a significant difference between racism and advocacy.


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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/4/2009 4:09:34 PM   
Sanity


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That's true. And there is nothing wrong with an advocacy group, as long as it's on the up-and-up, so long as it's not just a front for something more sinister.

That being said, there are still going to be more racists in an advocacy group then there are in the general population, and that's why Sotamayor's questionable words and rulings have given thinking people grave doubts about her qualifications to serve on the highest court in the land.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
It's fair to say, in a good faith discussion, that there's a significant difference between racism and advocacy.




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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/4/2009 4:36:50 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

Actually 3 of the 5 opinions that she has penned that have made it to the SCOTUS have been overturned, with a fourth very likely (the firefighter case). 

Hmmmm, this would seem to indicate that she isn't such a marvellous jurist after all. It is things like this, not some racist strawman, that should be the focus of the debate over her nomination. If the majority of her rulings that have come before the Supreme Court have been overturned, why exactly is she considered Supreme Court material, seems to me that she is getting it wrong more often than not.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/4/2009 4:37:43 PM >

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/4/2009 4:40:33 PM   
Sanity


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It's not a "straw man" if they are recorded, verifiable actions and deeds which are being remarked upon, which they are.

The suspicions that Sotamayor may be a racist are completely valid.


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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/4/2009 6:52:30 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's fair to say, in a good faith discussion, that there's a significant difference between racism and advocacy.

It's also fair to say that if you are an advocate for only one race, if you don't lift a finger when another race is short-changed, and are even willing to justify other races being short-changed to favor your own, then you're a racist.

Just sayin' ...if the shoe fits.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/4/2009 6:57:02 PM >

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/4/2009 6:58:46 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Fair enough.


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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 6:02:40 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		Last time I posted on this thread, Sanity was pretending to be Limbaugh.  I see he still is, but has anyone bothered actually looking at her record, her opinions, and how she's ruled in the past?  That, in my opinion, would speak harshly louder, than assumptions and accusation on if she'd be fair, racist, or otherwise, based on "what your opinion is".

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/judge-sotomayors-appellate-opinions-in-civil-cases/

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 7:17:33 AM   
Sanity


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OH SWEETHEART,

Keep sucking up to me, I do like your approach...

Re: Sotomayor though, here is one ruling that is problematic. She's in favor of seizing private property for redevelopment (see the linked article below). A lot of people are against that. And according to The New York Times, she isn't at all consistent in her rulings, from one case to the next.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/28/us/politics/28circuit.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Last time I posted on this thread, Sanity was pretending to be Limbaugh.  I see he still is, but has anyone bothered actually looking at her record, her opinions, and how she's ruled in the past?  That, in my opinion, would speak harshly louder, than assumptions and accusation on if she'd be fair, racist, or otherwise, based on "what your opinion is".

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/judge-sotomayors-appellate-opinions-in-civil-cases/


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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 7:27:54 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		Michael Greve, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, writing in National Review Online, placed Judge Sotomayor “among the most aggressively pro-plaintiff, anti-business appellate judges in the country.”
 
But others who have examined Judge Sotomayor’s work say the opinions reveal a practical streak. “She does seem to take every one as it comes,” Mr. Pincus said, an approach he compared to that of Justice David H. Souter. He said she issues business opinions that hew closely to the precedents of her circuit and of the Supreme Court.
 
Copied and pasted from your own link.  Its a matter of opinion.  Do we wish to be rational or irrational?  As far as sucking up to you *grins* ...Gary Wright said it best in Dream Weaver...should I quote him, too? 

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 7:33:26 AM   
Sanity


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Status: offline 		I love your deep and insightful analysys too! But don't you agree that the NYT headline said it best when it said,

Sotomayor’s Appellate Opinions Are Unpredictable, Lawyers and Scholars Say


(That damn Liberal rag, anyway... I think they just hate her because her views on abortion are largely unknown and she's a Catholic).


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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 7:42:08 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Re: Sotomayor though, here is one ruling that is problematic. She's in favor of seizing private property for redevelopment (see the linked article below). A lot of people are against that.



I thought you would be applauding her ruling there.

After all, it was the conservative majority on the Supreme Court that ruled eminent domain could be expanded to taking property in the interest of economic development.

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 8:19:34 AM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I love your deep and insightful analysys too! But don't you agree that the NYT headline said it best when it said,

Sotomayor’s Appellate Opinions Are Unpredictable, Lawyers and Scholars Say


(That damn Liberal rag, anyway... I think they just hate her because her views on abortion are largely unknown and she's a Catholic).



Nope.  I will agree you are picking through negative statements to prove a (your) point, but not reading the entire piece of information YOU provided.

The NYTimes Headline News also said...

Some of the attacks against the judge’s business rulings turn a complex legal record into a caricature, said Walter K. Olson, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative organization, and the editor of a blog, Overlawyered.com. While expressing some qualms about Judge Sotomayor’s views, Mr. Olson said “she will not be as liberal as many of the Republicans are saying — but no one could be that liberal, even if they tried.”
 
And for the record...I will agree with the statement above. (editted to clarify....the statement I just pasted from your link...not the one you chose to paste and ask if I agreed on it.)

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 6/5/2009 8:21:01 AM >

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 8:19:37 AM   
Sanity


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You might want to check your facts on that one... because apparently, you are a Rush Limbaugh Conservative in this regard. 




quote:

Justices Affirm Property Seizures


5-4 Ruling Backs Forced Sales for Private Development

The Supreme Court ruled... that local governments may force property owners to sell out and make way for private economic development when officials decide it would benefit the public, even if the property is not blighted and the new project's success is not guaranteed.

The 5 to 4 ruling provided the strong affirmation that state and local governments had sought for their increasing use of eminent domain for urban revitalization, especially in the Northeast, where many city centers have decayed and the suburban land supply is dwindling.

Stevens was joined in the majority by Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.... O'Connor was joined in her dissent by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. They wrote that the majority had tilted in favor of those with "disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062300783_pf.html



quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I thought you would be applauding her ruling there.

After all, it was the conservative majority on the Supreme Court that ruled eminent domain could be expanded to taking property in the interest of economic development.



< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/5/2009 8:22:16 AM >

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 9:37:44 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Actually 3 of the 5 opinions that she has penned that have made it to the SCOTUS have been overturned, with a fourth very likely (the firefighter case). 

Hmmmm, this would seem to indicate that she isn't such a marvellous jurist after all. It is things like this, not some racist strawman, that should be the focus of the debate over her nomination. If the majority of her rulings that have come before the Supreme Court have been overturned, why exactly is she considered Supreme Court material, seems to me that she is getting it wrong more often than not.

Actually almost all cases reviewed by SCOTUS are reversed. Cases aren't reviewed simply because the court thinks they should be affirmed. Any way you look at the numbers Sotomayor has had an unusually low number of decisions reversed.

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 9:41:26 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		It's all moot anyway. She'll be confirmed. We just have to have the political theater first.

Once everybody gets to grandstand their positions, we'll seat a new Justice.


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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 9:47:20 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Actually 3 of the 5 opinions that she has penned that have made it to the SCOTUS have been overturned, with a fourth very likely (the firefighter case). 

Hmmmm, this would seem to indicate that she isn't such a marvellous jurist after all. It is things like this, not some racist strawman, that should be the focus of the debate over her nomination. If the majority of her rulings that have come before the Supreme Court have been overturned, why exactly is she considered Supreme Court material, seems to me that she is getting it wrong more often than not.

Actually almost all cases reviewed by SCOTUS are reversed. Cases aren't reviewed simply because the court thinks they should be affirmed. Any way you look at the numbers Sotomayor has had an unusually low number of decisions reversed.


3 out of 5 or soon to be 4 out of 6 is unusually low?  Now I am no expert but 67% failure is not something I would be proud of, I could be completely offbase on my thinking on this one.

I am surprised that there hasn't been more opposition from the left about this nominee, in light of her rulings about abortion funding and such...  Perhaps, the outrage that would have been expressed is only reserved for when a member of the right side of the aisle makes such a ruling, or if it would have been a man...

Ce sara sara,
Thadius

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 9:50:00 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
3 out of 5 or soon to be 4 out of 6 is unusually low?  Now I am no expert but 67% failure is not something I would be proud of, I could be completely offbase on my thinking on this one.

I am surprised that there hasn't been more opposition from the left about this nominee, in light of her rulings about abortion funding and such...  Perhaps, the outrage that would have been expressed is only reserved for when a member of the right side of the aisle makes such a ruling, or if it would have been a man...

Ce sara sara,
Thadius

Look up the numbers yourself. Once more any case SCOTUS takes is likely to be overturned so the appropriate measure is how many appelate decisions versus how many have been reversed.

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 9:50:43 AM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		Afternoon Tim,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's all moot anyway. She'll be confirmed. We just have to have the political theater first.

Once everybody gets to grandstand their positions, we'll seat a new Justice.




I agree.  She will be seated, unless some major skeleton is uncovered in the next few weeks.  I am just enjoying pointing out the double standards that are in place from both of the major parties.

The political arena has replaced the gladitorial one, and the mob still enjoys their bloodsports.

I wish you well,
Thadius

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 10:37:58 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



You might want to check your facts on that one... because apparently, you are a Rush Limbaugh Conservative in this regard. 





Yes, my mistake.

I assumed it was a conservative majority because I had remembered a number of liberal groups had filed briefs on Kelo's behalf.

But I have always disagreed with the decision.

What I don't understand is this from your link:

And in a key property-rights case, Didden v. Village of Port Chester, Judge Sotomayor took part in a brief unsigned order from the Second Circuit in 2006. The order, which followed the Supreme Court’s major property-taking decision in Kelo v. City of New London, supported a town’s effort to seize property for the use of a developer. Richard A. Epstein, a conservative legal scholar at the University of Chicago, wrote in Forbes magazine that “American business should shudder in its boots if Judge Sotomayor takes this attitude to the Supreme Court.”

To begin, she was following precedent, so based on the Supreme Court ruling had the circuit court ruled otherwise it would have likely been overturned.

The second part though, about how "American business should shudder in its boots" is what I find most confusing since both of these rulings benefit business interests.

And as I recall now, the controversy at the time was the Justices opinions in the case were opposite of the way they were expected to rule.  Liberals were supporting the rights of business while conservatives were supporting the rights of the underprivileged, as many of these cases condemning property as "blighted" occur in poor neighborhoods (though that wasn't the case in Kelo).

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RE: Obama Picks A White Man for the Supreme Court! - 6/5/2009 10:43:37 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

Look up the numbers yourself. Once more any case SCOTUS takes is likely to be overturned so the appropriate measure is how many appelate decisions versus how many have been reversed.

Good point. I stand corrected.

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