RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

Post #: 21

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/30/2009 9:20:19 PM

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Why is that? I do not have a problem with them being at the Federal Pen's here. We had a lot of the cubans years ago. If there is room for them, let them come. I have been to the Atlanta Pen, and have two aquaintences that work there. I believe you are just trying to make a dig because of me pointing out some serious flaws in your posts on other topics, unless you have a good reason to offer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I suggest they transfer all Gitmo detainees to a prison in Georgia.

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Post #: 22

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/30/2009 11:48:56 PM

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I remember the "other post", where you accused me of "being a liar" and stating all muslims are terrorists. When I called you out on it to prove that I was a liar and said that all muslims were terrorists, the thread suddeenly vanished. No explanation. How odd is that?

But the reason I said they should go to Georgia is... if you want them out of Gitmo so bad, you should take them.
But remember, the men who planned the terrorist attack in New York recently were radicalized in prison.
Do you think you can separate them from other prisoners forever? Keep them from influencing those prisoners?
If you can, then take them. But that might be why all but 6 senators voted against funding closing Gitmo. But I guess you are smarter and know more about the issue than those senators... most of which are democrats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Why is that? I do not have a problem with them being at the Federal Pen's here. We had a lot of the cubans years ago. If there is room for them, let them come. I have been to the Atlanta Pen, and have two aquaintences that work there. I believe you are just trying to make a dig because of me pointing out some serious flaws in your posts on other topics, unless you have a good reason to offer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I suggest they transfer all Gitmo detainees to a prison in Georgia.

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Post #: 23

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 5:34:50 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

But remember, the men who planned the terrorist attack in New York recently were radicalized in prison.

I'm assuming this wasn't really what you meant to say, because I can't imagine how much more radical they could get after after sending their followers to fly airplanes into buildings.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 24

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 5:41:21 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Then if indefinate detention without trial or conviction is where the U.S. wants to go, then it has just consingned to the past all it's tennants of freedom and justice. Something all of you, in fact all of us should be aware of, for the passing of such bills in times of so called tension removes the freedoms our ancestors fought and died for.

I do not disagree, and that is why it bothers me that this may be continued by another President. Then there is the side of me that says "If two Presidents, privy to information that I do not have, make the same decision, then there may be a good reason for it.".

quote:

So called anti terrorist laws that have been brought into existence in recent years have turned freedom into an idea, not an actuality, none of us are free, perhaps never were in entirety, but now, even less so, we have in effect gone backwards, not forwards. Just to think, anything can be labelled a security threat by the powerful when ultimate power is wanted, be that for political, financial or other means.

They have not been blatantly used, but the existance of them is something I do not like. I hope some of that will change soon, but I am not holding my breath. These things set bad precedent, and are open to abuse, as has been illustrated by the previous admin.

quote:

But as to those terrorists that initially woke up the Western World to what has now become a war with the West sending their loved ones to fight and die in the supposed home lands of terrorism, what was their initial aim, and did they achieve it, perhaps they did, for we all now suspect our own countyrmen of being the enemy, anti terror laws prove this. The idea of one nation being looking forward has changed to one nation, looking everywhere, even at our closest neighbours.

If they sought chaos in the western world, they have largely achieved it, old laws and ideals have been consigned to past.

I think this may be better in it's own topic, so I will not respond and derail this topic.

Then if there is such information, it would help their cause if they made such information available to those they rule, for without they only invitite suspicion and distrust. It could be asked, just what are they afraid of, if moral right is on their side, they should not be fearing the populus. Transparency is often truthful.

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Post #: 25

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 6:05:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I remember the "other post", where you accused me of "being a liar" and stating all muslims are terrorists. When I called you out on it to prove that I was a liar and said that all muslims were terrorists, the thread suddeenly vanished. No explanation. How odd is that?

You would have to talk to the mods about a post getting pulled.

quote:

But the reason I said they should go to Georgia is... if you want them out of Gitmo so bad, you should take them.

I figured as much, and it also does not surprise me that you use passive aggressive tactics, it is a trait of a deceptive personality.

quote:

But remember, the men who planned the terrorist attack in New York recently were radicalized in prison.
Do you think you can separate them from other prisoners forever? Keep them from influencing those prisoners?

Radicalization occurs all over the world. This is a pretty lame excuse to keep someone indefinately, or isolated. We have this thing called the US Constitution that we are supposed to live by. Maybe you should read it some time.

quote:

If you can, then take them. But that might be why all but 6 senators voted against funding closing Gitmo. But I guess you are smarter and know more about the issue than those senators... most of which are democrats.

I consider myself better than most politicians, yes. If you had bothered to read some of my other posts, I have admitted that maybe they have some information that the public does not have. I cannot see why they would withold that information. I srtill believe that integrity and honor means more than any of the lame excuse you have offered. I believe living by what this country is founded on, to be more important. I can understand why you are against it though.

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Post #: 26

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 5:45:05 PM

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So are you saying any prisoner who is kept in solitary confinement is having his rights violated and could sue the government?

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Post #: 27

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 6:48:07 PM

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Let me educate you a little. A prisoner in solitary confinement has been convicted, and due process has been applied. They have had their time before a judge and jury, and they lost their rights to the state. Do you see the difference between those that have had due process, and those that have not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

So are you saying any prisoner who is kept in solitary confinement is having his rights violated and could sue the government?

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 28

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 7:30:05 PM

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If we pick up a soldier on the battlefield, who doesn't surrender but is captured, what do we do with them? Give them back? Give them therapy and prozac? Or take them out to dinner and a show?
And this is your quote...
Radicalization occurs all over the world. This is a pretty lame excuse to keep someone indefinately, or isolated.
You don't say anything about the supposed terrorists in Gitmo... you said "someone". What do you mean by "someone"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Let me educate you a little. A prisoner in solitary confinement has been convicted, and due process has been applied. They have had their time before a judge and jury, and they lost their rights to the state. Do you see the difference between those that have had due process, and those that have not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

So are you saying any prisoner who is kept in solitary confinement is having his rights violated and could sue the government?

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Post #: 29

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 7:40:40 PM

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Uhhhh, I realize you may have some difficulty following things, but someone would be those in the OP, which are the detainees we are speaking of.

I propose they be processed using DUE PROCESS. You see a long, long, long time ago there were some people in a country that were not always afforded due process. So they got together and wrote this quaint little thing called THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION .

Who are we at war with? Name a country? Can you link to this formal declaration of war? It is not an actual war, can you not understand that?

I propose we treat them with the same laws and ethics we apply to ourselves. To do anything else lacks integrity and is hypocritical, but you seem to already understand that. Geez how many times do you have to have things spelled out for you in a very basic and elementary manner?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

If we pick up a soldier on the battlefield, who doesn't surrender but is captured, what do we do with them? Give them back? Give them therapy and prozac? Or take them out to dinner and a show?
And this is your quote...
Radicalization occurs all over the world. This is a pretty lame excuse to keep someone indefinately, or isolated.
You don't say anything about the supposed terrorists in Gitmo... you said "someone". What do you mean by "someone"?

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 30

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 8:01:01 PM

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http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/19/sprj.irq.int.bush.transcript/

Bush declared war in Iraq in May 2003. So... yes, we are at war. Whoever declared it.
So who doesn't understand what?

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Post #: 31

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 8:15:06 PM

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Also curious as to what you consider a "real" war. I wonder if the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan think they are in a real war or not.
I also wonder if the militants setting up IEDs and shooting rockets at said soldiers think they are at war.
So if both sides have weapons, and both sides are fighting each other, and both sides feel they are at war, does that constitute a real war?

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Post #: 32

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 8:19:29 PM

Aneirin

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It was my understanding that the detainees in GTMO were picked up in Afganistan, not Iraq, has anyone declared war on Afghanistan ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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Post #: 33

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 8:35:47 PM

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For fuck sake. I am not about to spell things out for you in crayon. I am not about to try and teach a pig to sing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/19/sprj.irq.int.bush.transcript/

Bush declared war in Iraq in May 2003. So... yes, we are at war. Whoever declared it.
So who doesn't understand what?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 34

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 8:48:42 PM

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We are at war in Iraq. It was declared. I gave you the link.

your quote:

Who are we at war with? Name a country? Can you link to this formal declaration of war? It is not an actual war, can you not understand that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

For fuck sake. I am not about to spell things out for you in crayon. I am not about to try and teach a pig to sing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/19/sprj.irq.int.bush.transcript/

Bush declared war in Iraq in May 2003. So... yes, we are at war. Whoever declared it.
So who doesn't understand what?

_____________________________

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 35

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 5/31/2009 9:56:19 PM

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Try reading Article 1, section 8 of the United States Constitution. I gave you the link to a hyper text version of the US Constitution. Maybe that was too difficult for you to manage, so here it is http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8

The War Powers Act of 1973 allows the President only limited use of the military during only certain circumstances and conditions. Try reading it and educating yourself.

There is no formal declaration of war against anyone at this time. There have actually only been five declarations of war issued by the United States Congress, and the last one was during WWII against Germany, Japan, Italy, Belgaria, Hungary, and Romania. There have been several military engagements authorized by Congress, and Iraq is one of them. We have actually been operating under a UN mandate, and that is why an agreement or treaty with Iraq is needed to continue operations there.

Now that you have been educated some more, you can continue to show your ignorance if you like. If you plan on pulling the Bush-Malaki agreement out, do not bother as it is blatantly unconstitutional and is an end run around Congressional authority.

Also, do not attempt the "real war" bullshit about weapons on both sides. I am from a military family and doubt you would understand the difference between combat and war. Open your eyes Virginia, there is more to the world than the mountains before you.

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Post #: 36

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 6/1/2009 7:36:56 AM

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Wow... you are on a roll with the insults. I have been from California to Florida, and probably 20 states in between. I've also been to three different countries.
There is another world out there? Yea, I've been on a plane more times than I can count.
And yes, Bush did declare war. Just because YOU didn't like it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can't erase the past.

Now... if you say it was an illegal war, why don't you educate yourself a little about what the liberal democrats said about Iraq BEFORE Bush was voted into office. The democrats were biting their nails, hoping someone would come along and take out Saddam. And then when they did, they started talking out of the other side of their face. Just like a liberal.

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Post #: 37

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 6/1/2009 7:55:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Wow... you are on a roll with the insults. I have been from California to Florida, and probably 20 states in between. I've also been to three different countries.
There is another world out there? Yea, I've been on a plane more times than I can count.
And yes, Bush did declare war. Just because YOU didn't like it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can't erase the past.

Please link to the formal declaration of war. You cannot because it does not exist. Try doing the research, it is classified as a military engagement/operation and not a war. Only Congress has the constitutional authority to declare war, and I provided you the proof of that. Refute the proof found in Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution. You cannot refute that, because it does not exist. In fact Congress created the War Powers act to reign in Presidential use of the military because of the problems in Korea and Vietnam. It is not a matter of whether I like it or not, it is FACT that I support with evidence.

quote:

Now... if you say it was an illegal war, why don't you educate yourself a little about what the liberal democrats said about Iraq BEFORE Bush was voted into office. The democrats were biting their nails, hoping someone would come along and take out Saddam. And then when they did, they started talking out of the other side of their face. Just like a liberal.

I do not need to educate myself, because I know what they said. I have been involved polically for as many years as you have been alive. I will not say it is an illegal war, because it is not a war. It is a legal military operation, using a UN mandate that I believe expired recently or is soon to expire. It was also supported by a Congressional resolution http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/content-detail.html

As I said before, educate yourself. I do not mind teaching you, as I have been doing.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 38

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 6/1/2009 7:59:52 AM

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LMAO... that was hilarious.
Have you ever been to the middle east? I have.
So stop talking like you know everything, and everyone else knows nothing.
And stop with the insults. It's unattractive, and pathetic.

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Post #: 39

RE: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End... - 6/1/2009 8:05:52 AM

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Yes I have. I have shown that I obviously know more than you on this matter, as my statement are backed by facts. What have you backed your's with? Just your opinion and rhetoric. Your ignorance of these issues is what appears unattractive. If you have ever been involved in other topics I have been on, I clearly state when things are my opinion and not fact. When I make a statement of fact, I usually back it with supporting links or evidence. When I am mistaken (rarely) I admit it and move on. I do not involve myself in topics that I do not know anything about, unless to ask questions.

Now if you are finished flirting with me, I think I will go on the deck and have a cider.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

LMAO... that was hilarious.
Have you ever been to the middle east? I have.
So stop talking like you know everything, and everyone else knows nothing.
And stop with the insults. It's unattractive, and pathetic.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MissSepphora1)