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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 11:28:18 AM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		geeeeeeeeee you have no faith in the awesomeness of the younger generation


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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 11:38:38 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

geeeeeeeeee you have no faith in the awesomeness of the younger generation



I will have all the faith in the world in those that do, rather than talk. Talk is 99% of what I get. And it really doesn't have anything to do with age.

Last month I spoke with a woman that was pushing 50 and was one of the worst of the lot. Told me adamantly how service oriented she was, details about her previous service, on and on and ON. I get her on the phone and all she wants to do is discuss what I will do to her when she visits. Wants to "serve me" by masterbating for me while on the phone. Etc etc etc...... Then tells me what a fake I am for not finding her brand of service absolutely intoxicating.


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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 11:52:18 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks subtlebutterfly aka pretty winged one... Now I have to listen to Duffy! lol

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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 11:58:39 AM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		awwwwwwwww....sorry ahem..not funny....ok just a tad
big hugz n smoochies n all that stuff! =)


..ha! You do that Lockit I luuuuuuuuuuv Duffy =P


< Message edited by subtlebutterfly -- 5/28/2009 12:04:21 PM >

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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 12:07:31 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		The gender dynamic and the fact that it was a first encounter makes it quite different from a topic I brought up a couple of weeks ago.

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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 2:35:27 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I found the OP story pretty interesting, but I also kind of wonder if it had a lot more to do with the thought that the person you were describing tends to be more unique than the majority of submissives you'll find that come to this whole process with a goal-oriented cost-benefit analysis paradigm.

I say this as I am a pretty happy person when I'm a service submissive, but it means a lot more to me when we're not talking about give and take based on how much work is conducted or what is or is not done. For me, it works out great when the woman has expectations of service and sees me as "hers" to do with as she feels is appropriate. The understanding is that it can turn out to be a lot of work, based on whatever her needs and desires are at the time. The agreement is that that's part of the "deal", not that there's some kind of menu with charges for specific types of behaviors (i.e., "two loads of laundry washed and dried = one short spanking", etc.).

Right now, I find myself seeking a service-based relationship now that I have just returned to the San Francisco Bay Area from Korea (returned yesterday). At the same time, a lot of the drama that comes as baggage to these types of relationships worries me because it seems that so much negativity is already present when I haven't even started a conversation with a woman yet.


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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 9:07:52 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		slavekal, I'm aware that the circumstances are different, though I don't see it as a different *gender* dynamic, since in both cases it was a man (or men) doing something for a woman. Asking for help with computers, help with carrying heavy items, transportation, etc. is a lot easier than help with housework or yardwork. I just was struck by the difference in approach compared to a lot of submissive men who have offered to do things for me, and to some of the statements on that thread. I agree that there wasn't the same D/s dynamic, but if she was feeling "vanilla" that day, I still don't understand why you weren't just willing to help her anyway, since she obviously does things that do meet your needs on other days and in other situations!

peon, you were one of the guys on that thread who said that doing a favour for a woman you're attracted to feels the same as helping a neighbor or male friend, unless she expresses D/s. (I'm summarising from what I recall, so I may have misunderstood what you meant). It seems to me that even without any D/s dynamic in place, doing things for a lady you're attracted to should feel different emotionally.

littlesarbonn, I guess I am sounding a little cynical, negative, and discouraged. I don't assume that all submissive men have the "stick another quarter in the Walmart pony" attitude toward service, but it surprises me a little that more submissive men aren't willing to help women in a "wanting to make her life easier/wanting to impress her" frame of mind at least to start with. The D/s dynamic takes time to build. Also, suggesting service at my home, from someone who I haven't *met* yet, feels unsafe to me. I think that many Dommes aren't willing to bring someone in who they don't know, and suggesting it can certainly come across as pushy. I don't know what the answer is - this particular time, I actually did need help, in a public place with other people around, so it didn't set off any "red alert" when he offered.

subtlebutterfly, I have lots of platonic friends, and most of my ex-boyfriends, who I would help out and who would be happy to reciprocate. Almost all of the guys I've dated have been fine with giving me a hand with various things if I asked, or offering if they noticed something I needed. The reason this struck me as more unusual was because we didn't have an established emotional connection ahead of time, not because I don't know anyone who is helpful and caring!

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 5/28/2009 9:09:02 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/28/2009 11:33:27 PM   
darchChylde


Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline 		Wait, i'm supposed to be getting a reward for doing dishes?  Did Ma'am get this memo?

Just kidding, i never could get how this could be such a major hurdle for some guys.

Edited to add:  Just for the record, i do get rewarded for doing things around the house: a less stressed and not pissed off Ma'am is a reward for the whole household.


< Message edited by darchChylde -- 5/28/2009 11:37:08 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 12:23:58 AM   
MoGa


Posts: 1001
Joined: 8/25/2008
From: Hellizona!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Granted, I have zero experience with submissive men, aside from having a few as friends/aquaintances, but I really don't think there is much difference in "return for effort" between men and women. I've yet to meet a submissive/slave woman, that was solely service oriented, without concern for her own gratification of some sort.

Not saying these people do not exist, just saying I've yet to know one.



LaT,
Remember Veronica? He was a service sub only. He got nothing physical out of it, and sometimes I wonder if he ever got anything emotional from it either.
 
<Wonders what happened to him?>

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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 12:57:37 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Andalusite
peon, you were one of the guys on that thread who said that doing a favour for a woman you're attracted to feels the same as helping a neighbor or male friend, unless she expresses D/s. (I'm summarising from what I recall, so I may have misunderstood what you meant). It seems to me that even without any D/s dynamic in place, doing things for a lady you're attracted to should feel different emotionally.!


Did I say that?  If so, I overstated.  Of course I'm going to feel different when helping a lady to whom I'm attracted.  I'd be a bit of a cold fish otherwise!  But that 'feeling different' may well have no D/s element involved in it.  In fact, that'd be true most of the time I'm helping her in any given way, I'd guess.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 6:32:01 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
Shakti, I can see that, though it still surprises me that on average, submissive men here seem to be less interested in approaches women will actually enjoy/that are likely to work, both online and offline, than dominant or switch men are.


I guess it's just a problem of mismatching needs and expectations?  Many submissive men seem to genuinely believe that certain approaches will work, or even if they won't work, that they SHOULD work; they have some preconceived notion of what female dominance means and they are constantly disappointed by the reality.
After having hashed this out in many threads and seen many posts and responses from all sorts of people, I think the upshot for me is this:  there is nothing about the submissive/bottom orientation that makes you automatically considerate or empathic toward your partner and his/her real needs.  (And by this I mean the unsexy and inconvenient needs that a person REALLY has, not the bullshit fantasy needs that you WANT them to have when you're jerking off about being dominated.)

Many submissives and bottoms are actually very insensitive, demanding people, who are far less interested in real relationships than they are in living out their fantasies.  In this respect, they have a lot in common with selfish, demanding people of any orientation.  I think it's probably safe at this point to simply let those people become part of the "background noise" of dumbfuckery which is common throughout the world and accept that worthwhile people of any demographic group are rare, precious and should be cherished. 




Holy cow yes!!!  I have a sub male friend that I go through this exact thing ALL the time with!!!!  He is always calling me to tell me about the newest hot (vanilla) woman he's met and how can he get her to let him clean her house for free and how can he quickly incorporate his fetish into this and blah blah blah...
 
It's never just him being a nice guy that likes to be helpful to people. At least not the stories he tells me about anyway.
 
I've suggested that maybe he should just call himself a fetishist instead of a sub because he just isn't submissive.
I just want to say that I don't think this type of behavior is typical of all sub men.  But the majority that I have talked to over the past few years, yes.



Give me Alfred, Bruce Wayne's butler, any day.  Now THERE is a submissive man!!
 
 
 

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 7:10:39 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I would LOVE an Alfred!

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 7:50:50 AM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		I'll take a trio!: Mr. Hudson [Upstairs, Downstairs] and his sang-froid, Jeeves [Wodehouse] and his wits, and Bunter [Lord Peter Wimsey] for his courage and cookery, for complete Service, all of them sub-pervised by Mr French [Family Affair], or John Gielgud's character in 'Arthur' ["I shall alert the media"].

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 7:53:48 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I guess I need a bigger house.....and a more urban lifestyle. I think Alfred would be lost as to how to manage my little cottage on the hill.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/29/2009 7:54:45 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 8:18:38 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Peon, that's perfectly reasonable! As I mentioned on the other thread, I have experienced the difference between submissive service and being helpful myself, when I was a submissive in my last relationship, and I frequently have pounced the guy I was dating while he was doing dishes (after turning the hot water off, first) or housework and spiced things up a bit. It wasn't required, though, and that kind of expression toward someone I *feel* about that way, especially if I initiate it rather than them demanding it/setting up as quid pro quo, felt natural. If a guy demanded I start being bitchy and go put on some heels, I'd feel annoyed, not dominant! Getting the "I'm getting my rocks off/getting my kink on" feeling from a guy I'm attracted to and sexual can feel wonderful, but from a guy I've never met, or have just met, it feels creepy and tacky. I don't see anything wrong with starting out from a place of helpfulness/caring, and letting the kink or D/s aspect develop at its own pace!

BSB, your friend sounds like a real charmer.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 9:38:41 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

: Andalusite

Peon, that's perfectly reasonable! As I mentioned on the other thread, I have experienced the difference between submissive service and being helpful myself, when I was a submissive in my last relationship, and I frequently have pounced the guy I was dating while he was doing dishes (after turning the hot water off, first) or housework and spiced things up a bit. It wasn't required, though, and that kind of expression toward someone I *feel* about that way, especially if I initiate it rather than them demanding it/setting up as quid pro quo, felt natural. If a guy demanded I start being bitchy and go put on some heels, I'd feel annoyed, not dominant! Getting the "I'm getting my rocks off/getting my kink on" feeling from a guy I'm attracted to and sexual can feel wonderful, but from a guy I've never met, or have just met, it feels creepy and tacky.


I've got to the stage where I get find it a bit depressing both that there seem to be so many dominants who expect too much from sub males who announce that they have a 'service mentality' (or similar) and with those sub males who aren't aware (or BS) about the extent of their service mentality.  Me: I'm clear, at least, that I don't know how much or how little of said mentality I've got in me.  So . . . .

quote:

I don't see anything wrong with starting out from a place of helpfulness/caring, and letting the kink or D/s aspect develop at its own pace!


. . . I'd go with that policy too.

quote:

BSB, your friend sounds like a real charmer.


Which friend?  All my friends are as suave and as debonair as am I!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 9:47:48 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not entirely sure I feel complimented that the most highly-regarded service-sub-figures seem to be British!

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 9:54:00 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:BossyShoeBitch,

Give me Alfred, Bruce Wayne's butler, any day. Now THERE is a submissive man!!

Did you ever see the movie "Remains of the day"?(Anthony Hopkins/Debra Winger).....What did you think if you did?


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 12:29:35 PM   
AlexandraLynch


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think it's such a complicated equation. I understood it when I was a kid. If I pitched in and helped get the work done, Mom would have time to read me a story. If I didn't, she wouldn't.

If the sub helps me with my housework, then we have time to play, and when the housework gets done, I feel happy. I am inclined to work on making everyone around me feel happy too. How is this difficult to understand? (sigh)

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Service vs. favours - 5/29/2009 12:40:41 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Like I told someone the other day in jest (kinda) "As the saying goes 'if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy!'"

If I am happy, everyone around me is going to be happy. If I am not happy, chances are, no one around me is going to be happy. Pretty simple really.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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