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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 12:12:01 PM

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Well DUH!!! Maybe it is based upon he is bi-racial, but most call him BL:ACK. Maybe it is because people (general) that are very impassioned about something (culture and racism), have reacted in extreme and violent ways in the past. So if you were to just break this down to a mathetmatical formula, what would your prediction be ?

Race is an issue, stop side stepping it and face it. That is what Obama has said. Try some open dialogue about these things, rather than back handed insults.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Oh, I see, so your comment about riots following the possible assassination of the first black President had no bearing on his race and you were not even thinking of the Katrina riots, the LA riots regarding King, or the 60's riots after MLK's assassination.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 1:09:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Well DUH!!! Maybe it is based upon he is bi-racial, but most call him BL:ACK. Maybe it is because people (general) that are very impassioned about something (culture and racism), have reacted in extreme and violent ways in the past. So if you were to just break this down to a mathetmatical formula, what would your prediction be ?

Race is an issue, stop side stepping it and face it. That is what Obama has said. Try some open dialogue about these things, rather than back handed insults.

You know that "duh" word seems to be popping up all over the place lately.

Which I find remarkably curious since I don't remember hearing it since I was in third grade.

But, nevertheless, I wasn't the one side-stepping it but rather the one who tried to bring it out after becoming sick of hearing thinly-veiled racist comments.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 2:23:51 PM

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Your perception of "thinly-veiled racist comments" only. My perception of facts.

Facts:

1) The Black culture in the US has rioted before when someone that is black, has been treated with actual or perceived discrimination or injustice.
2) President Obama is considered black, even though he is bi-racial.
3) MLK Jr.'s assassination spurred horrible riots.
4) Rodney King's verdict spurred horrible riots.

Theory: If President Obama were assassinated there would be horrible riots.

So which part of this is racist, because that is pretty much what was said? Your comments and insults against others about it being racist, did not open any dialogue, it shut it down because you are making an accusation that people are being racist, when you have only a guess that they may or may not be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

But, nevertheless, I wasn't the one side-stepping it but rather the one who tried to bring it out after becoming sick of hearing thinly-veiled racist comments.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 2:31:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I wasn't the one side-stepping it but rather the one who tried to bring it out after becoming sick of hearing thinly-veiled racist comments.

You may think the racism in this thread is thinly veiled. But it's obvious to me, and so is where it's coming from. Because by insisting that to suggest the possibility of riots commits a slur against blacks you have exposed your own transparenly racist notion that only blacks engage in such behavior.

A Brief History of Rioting in America

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/7/2009 2:42:20 PM >

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 2:39:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You may think the racism in this thread is thinly veiled. But it's obvious to me, and so is where it's coming from. Because by insisting that to suggest the possibility of riots commits a slur against blacks you have exposed your own transparenly racist notion that only blacks engage in such behavior.

Ok then, how about the notion that only blacks have engaged in 'such behavior' in the 20th or 21st century? Your link did a good job of showing things like political protests back in the 1800's, but nearly all of the most recent 'riots' were started by or perpetuated in black communities.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 6/7/2009 2:47:28 PM >

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 2:53:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Ok then, how about the notion that only blacks have engaged in 'such behavior' in the 20th or 21st century? Your link did a good job of showing things like political protests back in the 1800's, but all of the most recent 'riots' were started by or perpetuated in black communities.

Any group will riot if it feels directly affected and sufficiently offended by something. Frankly, it would not surprise me very much if skinheads and other such groups found their life prospects a lot shorter and less pleasant should some racist white freak actually carry out the kind of scenario we're contemplating here, without a single black person having to lift a finger, unless they wanted a sip of iced-tea during the show.

K.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 3:00:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Ok then, how about the notion that only blacks have engaged in 'such behavior' in the 20th or 21st century? Your link did a good job of showing things like political protests back in the 1800's, but nearly all of the most recent 'riots' were started by or perpetuated in black communities.

Three points on this:

First, in the late 20th/21st centuries in the US the group that has been subject to the most discrmination is also the most likely to turn to violence in protest. That group happens to be blacks.

Second, while your "nearly all ....black communities" premise may be true with regard to scope, but it almost certainly isnt true with regard to sheer numbers. For example there have been many significant riots by sports fans that have nothing to do with race. There are a large number Hispanic riots, particularly in the LA area.

Third, since you didnt limit the scope of your premise to the US, there have been numerous riots in Europe by Asians and Muslims as well as blacks.

The common theme amongst rioters is simply passion for their cause incited by a perceived or actual injustice and crosses all races.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 3:11:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Any group will riot if it feels directly affected and sufficiently offended by something. Frankly, it would not surprise me very much if skinheads and other such groups found their life prospects a lot shorter and less pleasant should some racist white freak actually carry out the kind of scenario we're contemplating here, without a single black person having to lift a finger, unless they wanted a sip of iced-tea during the show.

Nice dodge there. I wasn't talking will or won't. I made a specific reference to the last 100 years or so where the majority of riots have been started by or located in the heavily black areas.

Will or won't is irrelevant. Did whites everywhere riot when Kennedy was killed? No. There was a lot of sadness and "where were you when you heard?" stuff, but no riots. But some cops beat up a black guy and all hell breaks loose.

You know, it's funny. I never got the concept of rioting. It's saying "Oooooohhhh I'm SOOO mad at YOU...I'm going to TRASH my OWN home!!!! That'll teach you!!!!"

It's a concept that just never seemed very.....intelligent to me. Take the Rodney King riots. Did they affect me? Nope. I wasn't even in the same state. Did it affect the people in suburbia in that state? No. They just avoided the area. Who was affected? Those who lived there and those unlucky enough to be caught in the area when it started. Whose neighborhood was trashed? Not mine. Not "the man's." But the poor areas where the riots happened.

That never made any sense to me at all.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 6/7/2009 3:12:01 PM >

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RE: Nut jobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 3:25:32 PM

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The Zeitgeist and Venus Project is pretty nutty also, throw in the Planet Nubira believers in and you have a whole fruit salad. I doubt they are out to hurt anyone though.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 3:27:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Nice dodge there. I wasn't talking will or won't. I made a specific reference to the last 100 years or so where the majority of riots have been started by or located in the heavily black areas.

But, I was addressing myself to rulemylife's accusations of racism.

K.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 9:08:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Any group will riot if it feels directly affected and sufficiently offended by something. Frankly, it would not surprise me very much if skinheads and other such groups found their life prospects a lot shorter and less pleasant should some racist white freak actually carry out the kind of scenario we're contemplating here, without a single black person having to lift a finger, unless they wanted a sip of iced-tea during the show.

Nice dodge there. I wasn't talking will or won't. I made a specific reference to the last 100 years or so where the majority of riots have been started by or located in the heavily black areas.

Will or won't is irrelevant. Did whites everywhere riot when Kennedy was killed? No. There was a lot of sadness and "where were you when you heard?" stuff, but no riots. But some cops beat up a black guy and all hell breaks loose.

You know, it's funny. I never got the concept of rioting. It's saying "Oooooohhhh I'm SOOO mad at YOU...I'm going to TRASH my OWN home!!!! That'll teach you!!!!"

It's a concept that just never seemed very.....intelligent to me. Take the Rodney King riots. Did they affect me? Nope. I wasn't even in the same state. Did it affect the people in suburbia in that state? No. They just avoided the area. Who was affected? Those who lived there and those unlucky enough to be caught in the area when it started. Whose neighborhood was trashed? Not mine. Not "the man's." But the poor areas where the riots happened.

That never made any sense to me at all.

I would point you to the riots in Chicago during the Dem convention, and those that followed for the next couple of years. The convention riot occurred in the neighborhood called Canaryville (predominantly whites and Irish), they spread to Bridgeport (predominantly Irish and Italian, also the home of the Mayor), and the more recent riots occured down near the Loop and downtown areas in opposition to immigration reform...

Not disagreeing or agreeing with you, just pointing out some places you neglected to point your generalized finger.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/7/2009 9:18:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
I would point you to the riots in Chicago during the Dem convention, and those that followed for the next couple of years. The convention riot occurred in the neighborhood called Canaryville (predominantly whites and Irish), they spread to Bridgeport (predominantly Irish and Italian, also the home of the Mayor), and the more recent riots occured down near the Loop and downtown areas in opposition to immigration reform...

Not disagreeing or agreeing with you, just pointing out some places you neglected to point your generalized finger.

It's exceptions that prove the rules.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/8/2009 12:16:10 AM

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Oh good grief.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/8/2009 12:19:00 AM >

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/8/2009 12:28:20 AM

hlen5

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This may be considered a hijack but one white person affected by the Rodney King riot was a truck driver who was dragged out of his truck and beaten to death. I'm not sure but his name was Steven something?

I just googled it and his name was Reginald Denny and was NEARLY beaten to death.

Edited to add the google info.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 6/8/2009 12:31:30 AM >

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/8/2009 4:13:06 AM

Crush

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It isn't about race...it is about cultures, incomes, and the values of that cultural group.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_the_United_States

Typically, rioting is used by economic classes or subcultures that feel marginalized in some way. Race, class, culture can be a factor, but typically is it is the marginalized groups that can't find any other way to, um, "express" themselves effectively. More often than not, the group tends to isolate themselves even more as a result of their action, including giving that group a cultural "stigma" that reinforces a stereotype.

A riot differs significantly from a protest march. Not that protest marches can't become riots, but a riot will not become a protest march. Difference? Cultural values and expectations of efficacy of the action. And typically, riots involve criminal activities (such as looting) unrelated to the "spark plug" event, whereas protests typically remain peaceful and mostly issue-focused, though emotionally charged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest

(And yes, protests can involve civil disobedience, but not to the level of the ad-hoc criminal activity of a riot.)

And while wikipedia isn't a valid source to cite, wikipedia does have valid sources cited, for those that care to do the research.

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/8/2009 10:48:20 AM

Arpig

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quote:

It's exceptions that prove the rules.

Exactly!!! However I am pretty sure you didn't mean to say what you actually said.....oh the delicious irony

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/exception-that-proves-the-rule.html

ETA: Sorry Crush, not a reply to you, it was meant for Loki....durn quick reply function!!

< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/8/2009 10:49:15 AM >

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/9/2009 11:50:32 AM

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tap... tap... tap... tap...

tap... tap... tap... tap...

tap... tap... tap... tap...

That's me taping my fingers, wondering if you are going to answer my question (do you honestly believe that there would be no riots if President Obama were assisnated?) or correct your libelous assumption that my contention that such riots would occur stem from racism on my part and not from an honest analysis of American history?

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/9/2009 12:11:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Your perception of "thinly-veiled racist comments" only. My perception of facts.

Facts:

1) The Black culture in the US has rioted before when someone that is black, has been treated with actual or perceived discrimination or injustice.
2) President Obama is considered black, even though he is bi-racial.
3) MLK Jr.'s assassination spurred horrible riots.
4) Rodney King's verdict spurred horrible riots.

Theory: If President Obama were assassinated there would be horrible riots.

So which part of this is racist, because that is pretty much what was said? Your comments and insults against others about it being racist, did not open any dialogue, it shut it down because you are making an accusation that people are being racist, when you have only a guess that they may or may not be.

So, what you are saying is you expect the black population of this country will take to the streets in uncontrolled violence if that should happen.

Do you have any black friends, neighbors?

Is that what you expect them to do?

When Reagan was almost assassinated did you expect the people in Beverly Hills to be smashing out windows on Rodeo Drive and loading up the trunks of their Mercedes' and Bentley's?

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RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/9/2009 12:19:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

You may think the racism in this thread is thinly veiled. But it's obvious to me, and so is where it's coming from. Because by insisting that to suggest the possibility of riots commits a slur against blacks you have exposed your own transparenly racist notion that only blacks engage in such behavior.

A Brief History of Rioting in America

I'm well aware of the history of riots in this country and I never suggested it was only blacks who riot, in fact my point was the opposite.

I suggest you scroll up and re-read the thread because that suggestion was not mine.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Nutjobs coming out of the woodwork... - 6/9/2009 12:26:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Any group will riot if it feels directly affected and sufficiently offended by something.

Which then begs the question of Obama being bi-racial and the majority of comments here assuming it would be blacks rioting, and then in the next breath claiming that is not a racist assumption.

(in reply to Kirata)

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