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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 6:30:04 AM   
Sanity


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But was if forbidden to speak Reagan's middle name? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

well there is a precedent for your fears - that guy Reagan didnt make much of his Irish roots did he, unless it was convenient and useful - and he refused to stop IRA fundraising in the US - proving his terrorist sympathies.

"the wiser man is he who, when having nothing to say, he says it"

E


< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/8/2009 6:43:10 AM >

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 6:33:15 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		newsflash m'dear, it isnt forbidden to speak the middle name nor the full name nor to know or to proclaim that he has some Muslim roots.

that was last year; when your guys were in charge that freedom of speech and consience were under threat.

E

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 6:45:43 AM   
Sanity


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Point is, Obama worked to keep that hidden. I'm not making any judgments about what he kept hidden, just that he hides things about himself. He claims to really admire Abraham Lincoln, but he isn't honest like Abe. You claim that Obama is center right, but you have no way of knowing because it's evident that he lies. Misrepresents himself, whatever you want to call it.




< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/8/2009 6:49:25 AM >

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 6:50:42 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		How did he work to keep it hidden? It was public knowledge worldwide about his stay in Indonesia, his Kenyan ancestry et al. If he were trying to keep it hidden, he didnt do a very good job!

As for lies, well - I seem to recall he came clean about all this stuff when certain quarters began using it to spread lies about him, having nowhere else to go.

E

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 6:59:10 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Here's how ABC News covered his recent revelations - "He didn't want to frighten voters" prior to the election.

quote:

Given widespread unease and prejudice against Muslims among Americans, especially in the wake of 9/11, the Obama campaign was perhaps understandably very sensitive during the primaries and general election to downplay the candidate's Muslim roots.

The candidate was even offended when referred to by his initials "BHO," because he considered the use of his middle name, "Hussein," an attempt to frighten voters.

With insane rumors suggesting he was some sort of Muslim Manchurian candidate, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and his campaign did everything they could to emphasize his Christianity and de-emphasize the fact that his father, Barack Obama Sr., was born Muslim.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/abc-news-jake-tapper-and-sunlen-miller-report-the-other-day-we-heard-a-comment-from-a-white-house-aide-that-neverwould-have.html


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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:01:54 AM   
Sanity


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And again, my point here isn't that he has Muslim roots, only that he's perfectly willing to "downplay" certain facts about himself in order to not "frighten" the electorate.


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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:02:43 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The U.S. doesn't have a political left relative to global politics.

We have conservative moderates and hard-line reactionary right-wingers.

No, I'm not being sarcastic or ironic or snippy. I mean it objectively as typed.





He writes on the morning that the Senate approves a bill for socializing healthcare....

They don't know how to pay for it but they approved it.

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:02:46 AM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		Well, obviously the tactic didn't work for you, Sanity. You're acting like you're going to piss your pants at any moment over this.

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:06:22 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

newsflash m'dear, it isnt forbidden to speak the middle name nor the full name nor to know or to proclaim that he has some Muslim roots.

that was last year; when your guys were in charge that freedom of speech and consience were under threat.

E


Ah but you ignore the fact that now  I am on or soon will be on the watchlist of Homeland Security, simply for being a conservative Christian veteran...  Not that it bothers me much, as I haven't done or won't do anything worth them watching... well at least that I know of.

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:08:02 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The U.S. doesn't have a political left relative to global politics.

We have conservative moderates and hard-line reactionary right-wingers.

No, I'm not being sarcastic or ironic or snippy. I mean it objectively as typed.





He writes on the morning that the Senate approves a bill for socializing healthcare....

They don't know how to pay for it but they approved it.

I just spent a few minutes looking for news on this supposed passage of a single payer health care plan, because you'd never flat out make something up or mislabel something, and imagine my chagrin when I find that what the Senate is approving isn't even remotely socialized medicine.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/8/2009 7:11:39 AM >

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:12:39 AM   
Sanity


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I'm probably on Obama's watch list too because the way I see it, Republicans are on the far left, Democrats are just barely to their left, while Libertarians and the Constitution party occupy the right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The U.S. doesn't have a political left relative to global politics.

We have conservative moderates and hard-line reactionary right-wingers.

No, I'm not being sarcastic or ironic or snippy. I mean it objectively as typed.





He writes on the morning that the Senate approves a bill for socializing healthcare....

They don't know how to pay for it but they approved it.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/8/2009 7:13:01 AM >

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:15:24 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The U.S. doesn't have a political left relative to global politics.

We have conservative moderates and hard-line reactionary right-wingers.

No, I'm not being sarcastic or ironic or snippy. I mean it objectively as typed.





He writes on the morning that the Senate approves a bill for socializing healthcare....

They don't know how to pay for it but they approved it.

I just spent 15 minutes looking for news on this supposed passage of a single payer health care plan, because you'd never flat out make something up or mislabel something, and imagine my chagrin when I find that what the Senate is approving isn't even remotely socialized medicine.


I caught the news blurb just abit ago on the television... as soon as a print or web article is available I will post a link... or retract it. 


You should know be better than that.  I do my damndest to stay to the facts...  And the passive agressive attack is definitely underneath you.
-----------------------------------------------
EDITED TO ADD:
 
I must have misunderstood the reporter on the local news, the most I can find on the web is that they have a draft of the bill out making the rounds.
 
 

< Message edited by Thadius -- 6/8/2009 7:31:30 AM >

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:22:51 AM   
Sanity


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Keep trying Mars. When you're finally outrageous enough, someone will notice you! 


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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:24:08 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
quote:


I just spent 15 minutes looking for news on this supposed passage of a single payer health care plan, because you'd never flat out make something up or mislabel something, and imagine my chagrin when I find that what the Senate is approving isn't even remotely socialized medicine.


I caught the news blurb just abit ago on the television... as soon as a print or web article is available I will post a link... or retract it. 


You should know be better than that.  I do my damndest to stay to the facts...  And the passive agressive attack is definitely underneath you.

I know you are exagerating on this issue. No bill anywhere in Congress with any chance at all of passing is a single payer plan or a full socialization of the health care industry.

I also know that Harry Reid's office says no roll calls are scheduled for today until late afternoon and that the full senate won't even convene until 2PM.
http://democrats.senate.gov/calendar/2009-06.html

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:32:33 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

newsflash m'dear, it isnt forbidden to speak the middle name nor the full name nor to know or to proclaim that he has some Muslim roots.

that was last year; when your guys were in charge that freedom of speech and consience were under threat.

E


Ah but you ignore the fact that now  I am on or soon will be on the watchlist of Homeland Security, simply for being a conservative Christian veteran...  Not that it bothers me much, as I haven't done or won't do anything worth them watching... well at least that I know of.


nah - its 'cause you have a beard - obviously Muslim!

seriously though, having been on the watchlist at MI5 since 1989 I think you might be over reacting a little. If being a conservative christian veteran is enough to get you on the watchlist then there will be millions on that list and unless youre attracting attention there's plenty of others who likely are.

and who thought up these watchlists and this intrusiveness anyway?

E

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:44:41 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
quote:


I just spent 15 minutes looking for news on this supposed passage of a single payer health care plan, because you'd never flat out make something up or mislabel something, and imagine my chagrin when I find that what the Senate is approving isn't even remotely socialized medicine.


I caught the news blurb just abit ago on the television... as soon as a print or web article is available I will post a link... or retract it. 


You should know be better than that.  I do my damndest to stay to the facts...  And the passive agressive attack is definitely underneath you.

I know you are exagerating on this issue. No bill anywhere in Congress with any chance at all of passing is a single payer plan or a full socialization of the health care industry.

I also know that Harry Reid's office says no roll calls are scheduled for today until late afternoon and that the full senate won't even convene until 2PM.
http://democrats.senate.gov/calendar/2009-06.html


First off, do you think it will end with just a public funded for some and some mandates on businesses?  For somebody that I believe to be pretty sharp, that seems a bit naive.

The current draft calls for a government run program that will compete with the private sector (which will force the smaller insurance companies under), and a mandate for most employers to provide healthcare or pay a penalty (depending on what the requirements are, this will put even bigger burdens on small businesses).  The costs will put even more pressure on the states that are having a hard enough time paying for mandates and everyday costs, some aren't even able to make those payments.  Etc, etc, etc...

Now back to the topic at hand... it has been stated many times on the left here(general usage of here, meaning in this country) that they wish to make our country more like our European friends.  The move to the left is coming... and it is not going to be in small steps; the funny part is that some of those countries are moving (slowly) to the right.

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:44:48 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And again, my point here isn't that he has Muslim roots, only that he's perfectly willing to "downplay" certain facts about himself in order to not "frighten" the electorate.



Personally I believe such a scenario would say far more about the electorate than about the man.

E

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 7:55:39 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Now back to the topic at hand... it has been stated many times on the left here(general usage of here, meaning in this country) that they wish to make our country more like our European friends.  The move to the left is coming... and it is not going to be in small steps; the funny part is that some of those countries are moving (slowly) to the right.


Sorry but no.

The centre right vote in the UK remained static - the centre right did well because the socialist vote stayed home or went for a protest vote at the way the centre left has become so cosy with Anglo Saxon capitalism at the expense of its traditional electorate, the working people.

The centre right vote in Europe was due to its promotion of what might be called "caring capitalism" that is capitalist free market economics limited by and structured towards social ends. A model starkly opposed to the "Anglo Saxon" model prevalent in the US and UK and gaining in popularity due to the mess that our version has caused. It should be borne in mind that the larger economies of the continent have been under the rule of the centre right for some time, and this vote was for the new model not against socialism.

One could argue that what Obama is moving you towards is akin to this continental model and away from the Anglo Saxon model. To argue that this is evidence of socialist subterfuge is to deeply misunderstand the continental model and indeed to argue that this continental model is socialist is to deeply misunderstand what socialism is.

E

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 8:02:22 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Now back to the topic at hand... it has been stated many times on the left here(general usage of here, meaning in this country) that they wish to make our country more like our European friends.  The move to the left is coming... and it is not going to be in small steps; the funny part is that some of those countries are moving (slowly) to the right.


Sorry but no.

The centre right vote in the UK remained static - the centre right did well because the socialist vote stayed home or went for a protest vote at the way the centre left has become so cosy with Anglo Saxon capitalism at the expense of its traditional electorate, the working people.

The centre right vote in Europe was due to its promotion of what might be called "caring capitalism" that is capitalist free market economics limited by and structured towards social ends. A model starkly opposed to the "Anglo Saxon" model prevalent in the US and UK and gaining in popularity due to the mess that our version has caused. It should be borne in mind that the larger economies of the continent have been under the rule of the centre right for some time, and this vote was for the new model not against socialism.

One could argue that what Obama is moving you towards is akin to this continental model and away from the Anglo Saxon model. To argue that this is evidence of socialist subterfuge is to deeply misunderstand the continental model and indeed to argue that this continental model is socialist is to deeply misunderstand what socialism is.

E


Point taken.

I was merely suggesting that the policies, control, and services are moving in that direction.  Government ownership and running of banks, car makers, insurance companies, and possibly health care... it is definitely a foundation to build upon if one wanted to convert this country to a socialist one.

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RE: For those on the political left....new worries - 6/8/2009 8:04:34 AM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The centre right vote in the UK remained static - the centre right did well because the socialist vote stayed home or went for a protest vote at the way the centre left has become so cosy with Anglo Saxon capitalism at the expense of its traditional electorate, the working people.
Yep.  In fact, that pattern seems to have been generally repeated across Europe.  The turnout was down to 43%.  This vote isn't so much an indicator of Europe moving to the right, as it is a reflection of widespread antipathy towards all mainstream politicians, right and left.


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As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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