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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 3:56:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

"Barbaric, theocratic shit bags"

Like Salem Puritanical Calvinist Cuntwhistles that whipped indentured Irish to death if they didn't work to death to build the Industries that allowed them to pay Revere enough to make some of those nice silver Revolutionary Items that go for some much $$ at Christies.

Same shitbags that were the grandads of the guys who penned the Declaration of Independence.

On the Hemp Paper using hemp pulled by the bloody hands of the Irish with whipped backs, btw.

Say, them Iranians and Arabs and many muslims are real found of whippings, ain't they? Have I got that one right?

Sounds to me like on the one hand all that you're talking about is in the past (the first part of your post) and then on the other....very much in the present (like the last sentence of your post).

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 3:57:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
No they wont, each generation of terrorists is replaced with new recruits. Do the maths, if one suicide attack kills just five people, who runs out of people first ?

Ahh, but EVERYONE has a breaking point. And those who are suicide-attacked just might reach theirs. And then these long, tall, slender MISSILES will make a short trek over the ocean and turn the terrorists and all of their current and future generations into glass.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 4:00:59 AM

HatesParisHilton

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Did the British accuse LaFayette of tactics we now refer to as "Terrorist"?

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 4:09:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Exactly my point. We were ready for it much sooner and we made it happen. Their society is a dinosaur that refuses to change and adapt.

Upto the 15th century Europe was a much poorer and backward relation. The opening up of the Americas changed that - the increased opportunity for prosperity demanded new ideas in production and social arrangeent (such as John Locke). The US and British governments are well aware of this and were they really interested in a democratic and prosperous Middle East then they'd keep out of the area and allow them to control the supply of their own resources. But that isn't the idea of course.

Their society will change and adapt as their prosperity rises.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 4:24:27 AM

HatesParisHilton

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"Sounds to me like on the one hand all that you're talking about is in the past (the first part of your post) and then on the other....very much in the present (like the last sentence of your post). "

Well, thank you for catching the subtext. We can assume you're a fellow fan of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, right?

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 8:05:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

It applies to all forms of government. France once was a kingdom. What happened with that?

Since you ask. The main cause of the French Revolution was they were almost bankrupt after fighting the seven years war, as well as helping with the War of Independence.

Why did they change their form of government?

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 10:29:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

Did the British accuse LaFayette of tactics we now refer to as "Terrorist"?

Not that I know of and neither have I. Whats your point ?

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 10:34:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

Why did they change their form of government?

Because the revolutionaries wanted to be the new Monarchy. if I recall correctly the reinstated the monarchy at some point. As well as having two Empires and a couple more revolution. Im suprised you brought the French revolution into the conversation without knowing the reasons for it.

Your question avoids how they became bankrupt in the first place. That lead to no income to run the Country, food shortages, higher taxes, riots ect ect.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 11:47:20 AM

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NG, this is a great summary of why the tyranny-revolution-tyranny cycle happens in various countries and areas of the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
The people who colonised the United States had the benefit of democratic and enlightenment ideas; they adhered to a certain thought process that rendered them capable of living under a democratic system of government.

The point is that for those colonists democracy was an organic process - they were ready for it. Iran is a completely different situation - you can't appeal to abstract ideas and disregard how people actually think and behave. They have to do that themselves through a process of the evolution of ideas.

Experience is there for all to see: Germany after WW1 and Russia more recently - where people's minds aren't ready for a sudden change to democracy the system breaks down and hardliners fill the void.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 12:24:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What is this nonsense you are spouting, RML??? Have you never heard of little things like the atomic bomb and computer controlled gatling guns we come up with from time to time?

This belief originated from the very real world we live in. Where are you coming from?

Where I'm coming from is the original comment by Loki regarding terrorists beheading prisoners and how we can't play nice, which you applauded.

Which suggests that you both advocate an "eye for an eye" philosophy which begs the question of whether we as a country want to be in a race to the bottom of the brutality barrel.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 1:04:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

Why did they change their form of government?

Because the revolutionaries wanted to be the new Monarchy. if I recall correctly the reinstated the monarchy at some point. As well as having two Empires and a couple more revolution. Im suprised you brought the French revolution into the conversation without knowing the reasons for it.

Your question avoids how they became bankrupt in the first place. That lead to no income to run the Country, food shortages, higher taxes, riots ect ect.

It changed because they wanted it changed.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 2:11:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Their society will change and adapt as their prosperity rises.

I've heard how they like to use the age of their society vs the age of ours as some sort of reference point. If theirs is that much older, and you say it will change as prosperity rises.....how long is that going to take?

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 2:30:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

I've heard how they like to use the age of their society vs the age of ours as some sort of reference point. If theirs is that much older, and you say it will change as prosperity rises.....how long is that going to take?

Muslim countries had a stranglehold over trade for a good 700 years and there seemed no way out for Europeans. An ocean to the West; an ocean to the North; Muslim control to the East and South.

A few things changed that: gun powder - navigation - Protestantism. It's an evolved process that takes time and there's no reason to think that the same cause and effect process will not happen in another part of the world in the not too distant future - though not in our lifetime granted.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 2:35:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Muslim countries had a stranglehold over trade for a good 700 years and there seemed no way out for Europeans. An ocean to the West; an ocean to the North; Muslim control to the East and South.

A few things changed that: gun powder - navigation - Protestantism. It's an evolved process that takes time and there's no reason to think that the same cause and effect process will not happen in another part of the world in the not too distant future - though not in our lifetime granted.

Well, I've been to two of those countries. I can't say I share your optimism that change is coming. The places I saw....'change' wasn't even headed that way. Those places weren't even located on 'change's' GPS.

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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 2:36:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

NG, this is a great summary of why the tyranny-revolution-tyranny cycle happens in various countries and areas of the world.

Perhaps the equivalent is expecting a cat to live by the laws of a lion. It doesn't matter how much an enlightened mind tells everyone they should live according to grand ideas - that is the equivalent of saying we could all be Chomsky at the drop of a hat.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 3:51:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

It changed because they wanted it changed.

Well duh, of course it did. However, there are more substantial reasons for change taking place, that your glib answer overlooks.

This thread is about Iran, many want change, but until there are many more that want change than those that dont, nothing is going to happen, is it ? So those that want change, dont get the government they deserve or want. Is this too hard to follow ?

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 4:19:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

It changed because they wanted it changed.

Well duh, of course it did. However, there are more substantial reasons for change taking place, that your glib answer overlooks.

This thread is about Iran, many want change, but until there are many more that want change than those that dont, nothing is going to happen, is it ? So those that want change, dont get the government they deserve or want. Is this too hard to follow ?

You can change forms of government but if you don't have enough people who want it to then you will have problems keeping it from changing back.

Perhaps the Iranians are ready to change whats going on there. Maybe not. Maybe they need a few more of these kind of elections before they are. Time will tell. But eventually enough of them will get mad enough to put a stop to it. Maybe that time is now.

I am speaking of societies as a whole not individuals. Otherwise you could not make any decisions because there will always be at least 1 person who opposes something.

< Message edited by blacksword404 -- 6/27/2009 4:22:04 PM >

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/27/2009 4:35:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

You can change forms of government but if you don't have enough people who want it to then you will have problems keeping it from changing back.

Perhaps the Iranians are ready to change whats going on there. Maybe not. Maybe they need a few more of these kind of elections before they are. Time will tell. But eventually enough of them will get mad enough to put a stop to it. Maybe that time is now.

I am speaking of societies as a whole not individuals. Otherwise you could not make any decisions because there will always be at least 1 person who opposes something.

I broadly agree with this. My whole point was in reply reply to your first comment that people get the government they deserve. I`m not speaking from an individual point of view, but from a significant section of the population. Hopefully a large majority will start to see the need for change in Iran and it will take place.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/28/2009 1:28:15 AM

HatesParisHilton

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"Not that I know of and neither have I. Whats your point ? "

my point is that if Iran does anything that (removing any cultural whitewash) has been done by ANY Western Culture, no western Culture has the right to say SHIT ALL ABOUT IT.

McCarthy in the 50's would have executed anyone he didn't like "on suspicion" for mere disagreement with his fat hrrid ugly ol' ass if he could have. Nothing has changed.

Pull abusive shit in the 1770's with history books backing you, still shitty behavior, and do it in the 2010's , SAME THING.

Behavior is your MUG shot, NOT your passport.

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RE: Iranian cleric urges executing some protesters - 6/28/2009 10:17:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

"Not that I know of and neither have I. Whats your point ? "

my point is that if Iran does anything that (removing any cultural whitewash) has been done by ANY Western Culture, no western Culture has the right to say SHIT ALL ABOUT IT.

McCarthy in the 50's would have executed anyone he didn't like "on suspicion" for mere disagreement with his fat hrrid ugly ol' ass if he could have. Nothing has changed.

Pull abusive shit in the 1770's with history books backing you, still shitty behavior, and do it in the 2010's , SAME THING.

Behavior is your MUG shot, NOT your passport.

Are you suggesting each generation is unable to question world affairs, due to the behaviour of previous generations. Surely you jest ?

(in reply to HatesParisHilton)

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