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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/8/2009 6:03:28 PM   
DavanKael


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Were you replying to me, lovingpet? 
  Davan

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/8/2009 6:15:27 PM   
lovingpet


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Oh my goodness no! My apologies Davan! Just used fast reply.

lovingpet

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/8/2009 9:06:33 PM   
DavanKael


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Lol, no problem; just wanted to be sure as my posts were supportive of your irritation.  :> 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/8/2009 9:16:40 PM   
lovingpet


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Yes they have been and much appreciated!

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/10/2009 7:31:41 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
Darn that scroll feature! I certainly did not want to miss responding to you LP!

I agree. In a simple play situation, it matters little what the labels are. I would guess that, unless they have seen me play in both worlds, no one at a party would have a clue I had a switch side. It would be irrelavant anyway. Like I said in my OP, if someone actually plays with me, there is no doubt left about my competence as either. If I have responded in a certain way, then it is just as real as it gets. It doesn't mean I share the same level with this stranger that I do with my partner, but it is nonetheless how I am most naturally inclined to interact with that person. There is nothing fake or contrived. There is no role.

Then we come over to cyberworld, where people only know you by what you put in a few blanks and boxes. Now it's a different story. I will say that those with an abundance of experience tend to not make such rabid assumptions, but most others will. Some will be in my favor, most not so. I don't care. If a label I am pretty much having to cram myself into is offputting, then we were not a match anyway. Some of the experienced folks just assume they can never interact successfully with a switch because of a bad experience or even multiple bad experiences.

I have said it about a lot of things, but it is true here as well. If you've related to one switch, you have still only related to one switch. We as a group all tend to function differently to some degree. Fortunately, there are a few who will follow paths wherever they lead. In this rare group, is where I have found a wonderful partner!

lovingpet


<<yes I realize I boo booed on the quote feature! LOL


There, I fixed it for you.  LOL.

I have to admit, lovingpet, I didn't always feel this way about switches.  I've been burned in My life, too, and it just happened to be a switch.  Just My luck, right?  Long story short, I realized that was a person, not a whole group of people.  When I became more open, it allowed Me to get to know and play with some wonderful people.  One of whom, I'm going to miss very much.

Oh, I still have My terms for which I'll enter a dynamic with a switch.  I still am only willing to have the submissive side in a relationship with Me.  I have no problem with them expressing their D side with someone else, but I'm in charge around here.  If they have a sub of their own, I definitely believe in the hierarchy  (I own him, therefore, I own his sub as well) of My poly family.  I expect the same of a switch as I would any other submissive.  Not hard stuff, really.


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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/10/2009 7:44:36 PM   
lovingpet


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Thanks LP!

I agree. Any subbie of mine would be under the direct control of my dominant partner as well. It's not rocket science for sure. I don't even know if I really NEED or WANT a submissive of my own. Like I've said, the chemistry would have to be just so. Further, I am his alpha, so I could potentially have my hands full as it is should he decided to add others. What would I need my own for then? Just kidding. It is all very open right now. I know the "rules" and what the possible senarios are and that is more than enough to ensure smoother sailing.

It is hard to get past being burned by one person of any group in any area of life, but goodness I am glad some can get past it and not write people off based on their membership of a group. Not saying it was the case for you, but sometimes my guess it the expectations are not clear to both and leads to a mess. He is clear with me about how it will work. I don't have to guess. I know what means are available to me if my switch side needs attention. I know perfectly well I won't be indulging it by toppling him.

You've had a lot of insight for this thread and I appreciate it!

lovingpet

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/10/2009 7:45:59 PM   
hardbodysub


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Well, "switches will do, but they're not my first choice" is better than "no switches", isn't it?

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/10/2009 7:54:13 PM   
lovingpet


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Not really no. At least then someone isn't being used until something better comes along. Both are really limiting for reasons I can't really conceive.

lovingpet

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/11/2009 1:19:54 AM   
AlexandraLynch


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Given that I am theoretically a switch who operates entirely as a dominant in this game (Suffice it to say, I am collared in a religious sense) , I have no trouble being open to playing with switches, being friends with them, and seeing where it goes. I'm bi, but I've gone long happy stretches of time without sex with a girl. I don't see where it's any different for a switch.

Besides, if xhe's got a little streak of toppy, then when I lie back and say to hir, "I want five orgasms, then let it wind down and we'll see if you've been good enough to come, " xhe can be forceful enough to push my buttons nicely. Though I do promise ten smacks for every bite mark that shows. (grin) Moderation in all things.


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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 7/27/2009 3:23:28 PM   
aranisiA


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I don't know if this is an American thing (or a non-Norwegian thing; I haven't seen enough of the Euro scene to be able to judge), but I don't think I've ever encountered a person seeming to think I am any less of a submissive or Dominant just because I register as a switcH. Not in person and not online. Then again, it might be that I have been spared such stupidity due to the people I interact with most; the vast majority of the people  I am friendly with are switches. I am actually a bit surprised to see how many people on Collarme refer to themselves as either one or the other...

I do see the point a couple of people have made about the difference between scening and a relationship, especially a relationship that's completely monogamous/private. Personally I don't think I'd be able to be in that kind of relationship with anyone, switcH or no - I am far too much in love with what I refer to as innocent play @ my local club. I am also of the type of switch who is able to switch from sub to Dom in the blink of an eye - but an important addendum to that is that though I love it, I only do it with people I know are into that kind of thing or as a one-time attempt to see if it works. If it doesn't work or if the person has said in advance that she doesn't switch - then alright, that is all good.

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 8:27:43 AM   
curiousheart


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Hey just for the record, Iheartswitches.

My experience is that there's more chance of good chemistry with a switch compared with a Domme during vanilla time/conversation/relaxing, they're just nicer generally!

Plus the contrast between that and their Domme persona really makes for something extra, as with a Domme you can pretty much draw a line from their personality to their BDSM style.

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 9:00:00 AM   
littlewonder


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My experiences with switches is that they've always said to me "I won't switch when I'm with you. I'm all Dom. I can live with that." only to find down the road that they get an itch they need scratched and I can't scratch it since I'm a slave in my relationships, I don't switch at all and I'm completely monogamous.

So it's always led to what felt like deceit to me and then heartbreak. I couldn't deal with their depression of not being satisfied with our life together or their cheating meant the end of our relationship.

As for the "a switch will do", I think that comes from profiles of people who are just looking to play and not looking for anything other than that.

So if you're looking for more than just play then just shrug it off and move on...not what you are seeking.

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 9:49:59 AM   
Wolf2Bear


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As a switch, I have yet to find my role being a problem! That also could be that when I do submit to a 'D' type, that is when I know that I am submitting as an 's' type to the 'D' type. It is based on the "d" type knowing that I am fulfilling my need to submit and that is the role I keep myself in. 

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Take the pain
Take the pleasure
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Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 9:50:50 AM   
daintydimples


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Please consider this:

If you are ill .. would you want a doctor or just someone who plays one on TV?

When your transmission breaks down... do you want a master mechanic to do the repair or someone who just always wanted to work one one?

There are people who just like to ride a horse and there are those riders that realize you have feed, water and groom the horse.

As angry as you are, realize that this is the conundrom of being a switch. The truth of the matter is- being a swtch does not guarantee you the best of both worlds with the partner of your choice.


I found this post incredibly condescending. This is exactly the kind of attitude switches have always battled, the idea that we are somehow less than the real thing because we switch.

I am a very dual-natured person in general. I have a strong dominant side and a strong submissive side. I routinely cycle from one side to another throughout my business day. For example, when dealing with financial matters, the dom side comes out. If I'm doing customer service, the sub side is needed. It's not a question of me not knowing who I am, or not being that fully, it's a simple matter of my being able to flow from one side to the other depending on the situation presented to me. And yes, I am well aware this abilty is disturbing for some.

So far I have never met a submissive off line who did not think I could take control of  them completely. Conversely those (admittedly rare) males who can dominant me have always been supremely aware of my submissive response.  

It's been my experience that I am better submissive for knowing my dominant side, and vice versa.

I recently took a facebook test entitled, "Are you right brained or left brained?" I came out 50/50. I think many of the switches who have contributed to this thread would get similar results. It's just who we are.

I have also encountered male dominants who have no problem with me being a switch at ALL until I tell them my gender preference is primarily for males (I consider myself bi-lite or hetro-flexible).  Sharing with another female is fine for them, sharing with another male, not so much.

I tend to get all of this out in the open right away. If someone makes condescending comments, I know to move on.













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Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 1:32:43 PM   
DemonKia


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FR, after read thru

I'm a bi-switch. Both, for me, come from a space of preferring to keep my options open & of deliberately cultivating my own fluidity . . . . But they also play out in rather more complicated ways than some simple little labels imply . . . . . .

Let's first consider my 'bisexual' label. & let's look at it with a slightly more complicated notion of what 'partnered sexuality' is about, a tri-pronged model: physical desire, emotional attachment, & social / friend choices. (The latter is a significant factor in how people's sexual lives play out even tho' it seems quite independent of sexual partnership choice.) This was an academic model that I found quite useful. In my case I am most strongly attracted lustfully towards guys, I have the best emotional relationships with women, & I seek & cultivate friendships with both men & women, equilaterally . . . . . That is, I am somewhat more hetero-inclined from a purely physical basis, emotionally I'm quite 'lesbian', & socially I am pretty bi . . . . . . .

(By way of comparison, let's think of some hypothetical extremes: a man who's physical, emotional, & social preferences are all strongly for other men would be strongly gay, similarly a woman who preferred other women in all three spheres would be strongly lesbian. Hetero's end up being more complicated, because the only thing the hetero label really clearly indicates under this tri-partite model is the physical desire part . . . . . )

Now let's take a look at some of what I see when I contemplate D/s dynamics. I'm of the opinion that everyone has what I like to term 'power & control' issues, that humans have an innate tendency to 'hierarchiate' (that is, delineate themselves & others into power hierarchies), & that D/s dynamics are how that general state interacts with human sexuality. Thus D/s / M/s dynamics are about taking those power relationships that are embedded in all human interactions & deliberately playing with them for erotic effect & / or relationship satisfaction . . . . . .

In addition to the above, there's also the reality that most dyadic relationships are unequal (on all kinds of levels) & contain power imbalances, with this being particularly pronounced & at issue in romantic-sexual relations . . . . (Ie, the most obvious case being the 'desire differential' between partners, with one desiring the other some amount more than the other way 'round . . . . . )

I am a 'naturally dominant' human being . . . . . & being able to take a break from that is such a relief . . . . . I like playing with power dynamics, especially in an erotic context . . . .. There are levels, for me, where being able to make explicit the power dynamics in a romantic-sexual relationship is necessary to have 'effective communication'.

The flip side of the bi-or-switch-equals-wishy-washy-&-insatiably-needy argument is that there are those who are rigid, inflexible, & are thus limited by their (inherent) roles. Perhaps the issue is more that those who are most insecure in their constrained choice set are most likely to flare out at those they perceive as experiencing greater freedom . . . . . (Which then sets the heart of this matter in the dichotomy between freedom & safety, I suspect . . . . . )

But limits are a good. The above paragraph could be read as inflammatory, if one takes limits & rigidity as 'bads' . . . . . I tend to think of these concepts more thru the metaphor of building materials than from some kind of either-or good-bad frame. Some are most comfortable being like steel or concrete & some are more comfortable being like wood or bamboo . . . . .

I'm limited in how many people I can have close, intimate (emotionally, physically, whatever) romantic-sexual-BDSM relationships with, 2 or 3 & I'm pretty much maxed out . . . . .

Anyway, my experience of the in-person 'scene' is that switches, & bis, are the majority, & it's the purely-thisses-or-thats who are in the minority . . . . . . Which is consistent with my experience of the 'vanilla' world, which I found to contain a much larger proportion of bisexual & otherwise more flexible people, & rather fewer of the more limited sorts . . . . . (Of course, there's a great deal of 'closeted' stuff out in the 'vanilla' world . . . . . )

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The Verbossinator

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 3:04:17 PM   
daintydimples


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Great post, DemonKia. I always enjoy your unique perspective.

You said: Of course, there's a great deal of 'closeted' stuff out in the 'vanilla' world . . . .

There is in the D's world as well. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, many males keep their switchiness a secret. 


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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/6/2009 4:04:12 PM   
DemonKia


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Thank you . . . . .

Yeah, & I see 'closeting' as a sequelae to stigma . . . .. Since both switchiness & bisexuality are stigmatized (especially for guys, who have somewhat more rigid role expectations to live with around both sexuality & 'power & control' issues), it seems expectable that there is a lot of 'closeting' around both of those . . . . . & what's funny is it can be from so many angles; homosexuals can be as intolerant of the bisexuals as can the heteros, in symmetry to how both top/D/M types & bottom/s types can have issues with switches . . . .

But since my experience is that most in the flesh-life have some switchy stuff, it ends up being a relative few who are at the further ends . . . . . As in so many things, I suspect it's a rather vocal section of that minority that makes their presence disproportionately felt . . . . .

There's also something about how 'creating safe space' can allow people to access their inner stuff (which oh-so-frequently is unique in its cumulative individuality) .. . . & sometimes results in fitting the labels to ones own curves rather than the generic model; I have a friend who has gone thru various ways of thinking of her preferred role & is currently much liking on 'sadomasochistic Dominant bottom' . . . . . . There's a process in giving self permission to be different, & one may end up a profoundly different person after decades of following those permissions . . . . . .

I like labels, tho' they're more like road signs signifying a general direction rather than some kind of box that holds me in . . . . . .

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/7/2009 3:19:59 AM   
daintydimples


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What I find very interesting is how certain orientations are perceived as "better" by certain groups. For instance, if you're a fem sub, being bisexual is perceived my many male dominant as being "better." 






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Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/7/2009 8:03:59 AM   
canukeepup


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some good posts...decent information ....tho it does increase my thought that the more the label the more screwy things can be....i'm new BUT i read ALOT....education is the key to ANYTHING.....example...seems just knowing the deffint diff between sub/ slave is NOT totaly clear ...OTHER then to the 2 people in question...wich is fine with me....sure hope SHE sees it that way......how bi could be ''better''?? hmmm DD i do like your concept bout how bein a swtich gives your personality options and a plus to dealing with your buss life.....*shrugs* but...wada i know.....

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RE: Can I Play Too???? (A Rant) - 9/7/2009 9:52:30 AM   
DemonKia


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Mostly it's that it's a 'preference', which concept easily morphs into 'better' . . . .

& this is one of those spaces where it's about being human, rather than anything specific to BDSM . . . . . & the handy-dandy rule-of-thumb that insecurity lies at the root of the demonstrated need to display 'superiority' . . . . . Some of that lovely set of two-sided sword-tools that are innate to humanity, it probably also serves some function of motivating humans to get stuff done, but has unpleasant sequelae . .. . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

What I find very interesting is how certain orientations are perceived as "better" by certain groups. For instance, if you're a fem sub, being bisexual is perceived my many male dominant as being "better." 


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