CallaFirestormBW
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quote:
Here's where I tend to perhaps nitpick the word "responsibility" when it's used. I mean, objectively speaking, I guess that, yes, the responsibility lies in at the risk of alienating one's self (as we talked about above)...but I still think that is just a consequence one must understand when choosing to express their freedoms. I don't necessarily like the idea that it's an active responsibility that we must abide by (which would be a decree to someone of how to live their life, even if it's not directly harming anyone).
I can concur, to a certain extent. Perhaps 'responsibility' is not the right word in general, though it didn't occur to me that there might be another way to phrase it, since I guess I -do- think of it as a responsibility--and one that I taught my offspring, because I do think it is important to be considerate of others when determining whether or not to do something in a given situation.
I also see your point about the issue of boorishness being completely self-balancing, with those who share one's perspectives being willing to spend time in one's company, and those who do not choosing different company... and that, if one is boorish enough, by a given group's standards, that pool of individuals willing to spend time in one's company would likely dry up to naught.
I think the only place we may end up disagreeing is whether or not there is any intrinsic value on a society-wide level to choosing a more considerate, flexible, and socially considerate way of presenting oneself (or choosing environments where one's chosen manners of presentation will be comfortably appropriate -in general-). I think that there -is- some value in that, with the concession that, in order to effect social change, there will be occasions when the envelope will -have- to be pushed... the only addition I'd make is that sometimes, a gentle, persistent pushing is more effective than an overblown, super-inflated shove, and to me, that is where good manners come in, even when one must push the envelope to make a valuable point.
I can give an example of the above. I've worked at the same job for 5 years, and have several tattoos and piercings that are difficult if not impossible to cover without going to special lengths, including one on my collarbone that peeks out, at least in part, in every single thing I wear except for a couple of Victorian shirtwaists I wear on occasion.
Now I've interacted with one of our faculty for every one of those 5 years. I've stood in his office, dealt with him in clinic and at regulatory meetings, and hunched over the computer together hashing out the wording on clinical protocols. Several days ago, I took some papers for him to sign down to the clinic, and was wearing a summer top that clearly showed the entire tattoo that I have on my collarbone. He had apparently missed all the other times that I'd had bits of it showing, but he noticed it this day, and commented, and we spent a couple of minutes taking about the significance and the other pieces I've had done, and the safety issues around penetrative body modification and comparisons to plastic surgery, and it was a -very- pleasant conversation.
Later, he dropped by our office, and he said to me (in front of my boss and my boss's boss) "You know, any time I'd seen someone with tattoos, I'd always felt very negative towards it, because the people who have them have always been so curt and nasty to me, and really difficult to work with. I couldn't see how someone could have tattoos and still be professional. I admit that I probably fostered that by being rude myself, but you have -always- been polite and pleasant, even when I wasn't polite or pleasant to you, and you have -always- been the consummate professional. In the time we've worked together, I would never have guessed that you were a tattooed person, and especially that you would have more than one tattoo, and you've given me a new perspective on why someone might want to have that done and that some people might -not- be ashamed of it in 20 years. It never would have occurred to me." Then, he asked my boss if -she- had any tattoos, and was surprised... but with a grin... when she said yes, but explained that hers wasn't someplace it could be seen.
I think manners and consideration of others matter, and I think that our social progress might actually go faster if we could learn to present our arguments in ways that respect the person on the other end as a human being, first, and then consider presentation of a perspective on its own merits. Of course, I don't expect anything... but I have to admit that it is very pleasant and does incline me to a more generous and open perspective when it happens.
Dame Calla
< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/14/2009 7:12:16 PM >
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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"
"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer
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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 
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