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RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 8:49:00 AM

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Am I the only one who would love to see these two ladies fight, in real life?

... deeply, deeply ashamed of myself

for hijacking this meaningful and productive thread.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Bella1965)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 9:27:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But then Nihilus...to throw your own question back at you...who decides whether or not the act's sole or main motivation IS to molest another's public experience? You?

No. Not me. Not specifically just the offended party either. There is a very big careful gray area here and it would take a lot of detailed specifics to get to it. I'd probably start with a radius of accepted personal public space (unless you've chosen to be in a situation, like a subway at rush hour, where the expectation is silly). But this is getting off into a tangent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Then aren't you doing the same as I or any of the others who've posted about what they prefer to see or not see are doing? Making a judgment call? Seems to be the only difference is in the degree of what I might tolerate or consider offensive vs. what you or anyone else might tolerate or consider offensive.

It could be...but everything I propose I'm doing so in as universal and latent a way. I'm not sure how it's "my preference" to adopt a view that freely permits everyone else to do what they want.

Beyond that, sure...I guess I'm essentially holding people to a social construct that genuinely sees freedoms as the most sacrosanct of personal rights. So the counterargument would be: that people should be free to prioritize their own moral codes and freely act them out however they see fit according to their concept of good judgment.

If we are okay with this social philosophy, then we cannot hold someone like Scott Roeder ethically or legally accountable for killing a doctor because he chose to prioritize the value of his crusade as more important than the life of someone he saw as a monster...even if that prioritization meant he could physically infringe on the freedoms of another and harm them in a decidedly fatal way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Do I want legal or religious mandates on behavior? A tricky line...laws dictate that you cannot drop your trousers and take a dump in the middle of main street. I'm fine with that. Laws dictating that you cannot commit PDAs? I am not fine with that as public displays of affection are not going to harm anyone...not mentally or physically.

Having to witness someone doing a #2 in public harms no one either (your olfactory senses don't really count!

).

Repulsive? Yes. In poor taste? Yes. Harmful? No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

The question for me then comes down, as I said above, to the degree that I expect someone else to tolerate from me and the degree I will tolerate from others and that decision comes down to many factors...the environment, the community, the type of public experience it is, and on and on and on.

Yes, but as Ialda pointed out rather incisively, this view starts with a projection of what "I" would want, and then tries to paint it on everyone else's available options. Life doesn't work that way (anyone involved in at least one relationship should be able to attest to this!).

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 9:49:28 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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I know this was directed at Nihilus, but if I may, I'd like to toss a few coins in the well.

quote:

But then Nihilus...to throw your own question back at you...who decides whether or not the act's sole or main motivation IS to molest another's public experience? You? Then aren't you doing the same as I or any of the others who've posted about what they prefer to see or not see are doing? Making a judgment call? Seems to be the only difference is in the degree of what I might tolerate or consider offensive vs. what you or anyone else might tolerate or consider offensive.

And this is why it isn't quite so simple. See, I'm not judging someone -else-'s behavior. I'm looking at what I am thinking about doing, and where I'm thinking about doing it, and asking -myself- whether I believe that it is appropriate to do this thing in this place at this time, based on whether I think that my actions might be harmful (and not just on a large scale, but, at least for me, I include things like inconvenience and irritation factors in the mix as well). Then I weigh that against the level of potential benefit, and decide whether the benefits of me doing what I was going to do outweigh any harm that it might do.

I can't make this kind of judgment call for someone else. It is my belief that it is my responsibility to do this for me, if I'm going to be interacting with other people, in particular because I am outre in so many ways, so even my physical appearance may be a bit of an 'assault on the senses' for some folks, so I'm already going into the encounter with maybe a bit of a social disadvantage. If I want to have a productive encounter, I'm going to make an extra effort to ameliorate any negative impact my presence might have, just because I want the encounter to work.

I'm honestly not easily offended -- not by boobs, or porn, or prostitution, or drugs (though I am a little offended by people who are careless or deceitful in the exercise of the responsibilities they've chosen to undertake regarding other peoples' money and property!!!) and I recognize, most of the time, that the general populations' sensitivities are a lot higher than my own... and it seems appropriate to me to consider that when deciding on a course of action for myself.

I guess where 'judgment of others' comes it, it comes in for me because I tend to think that the people who insist that they should have their 'rights', with no consideration of how exercising their "rights" might impact a given situation, are, in a way, putting the exercise of their freedoms ahead of the comfort and freedoms of everyone else that they might encounter in a given situation, and I find that an inappropriate attitude for me... I couldn't do it most of the time.

I guess, in some ways, I think of myself more like one of the water drips in a cave... it takes a LONG time, but eventually, those little, polite drips that I make combine with the input from everything that the drip touches, and eventually those drips build themselves up into strong stone constructions. There are times when I am more of a firestorm (hence my name), and just raze everything to the ground to start from scratch (and honestly, I'm obviously remembered more for those few occasions where I've just torn through), but my preference, wherever I can do so, is to let self-expression along with good manners do the work for me, even though it often doesn't seem like it's getting results for a long, long time.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 11:04:44 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I am always to busy trying to see everything going on to pay much attention to ages of those there, unless it is obviously a kid and we're walking by, then I will notice those who're underage. Other wise I am just seriously oblivious.

My regrets are that all the hot seedy action is obscured by dozens of people who got there first, and by the time I walk by there's nothing worth seeing, because what's going on is obsured by the crowd hehehe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

They are there but we've never stopped to ask their parents why. When the parents aren't in any sort of lifestyle garb, it seems more strange. But yup, last year we made it a point to notice and every age group was represented from 0-16.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 11:11:24 AM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR, after continuing read thru

Two thoughts, one for Nihilus, & the other just general observation:

Nihilus, there are reasons other than taking offense why depositing feces on a street is illegal: disease transmission. There was a time when human waste was dumped onto city streets (mostly by way of emptying slop buckets) & we stopped doing that, & allowing it, because it's a serious disease risk. Cholera, typhoid / typhus, & polio are just a few examples of serious infectious illnesses transmitted thru feces. So, if we postulate a world in which it's legally acceptable to shit on the street, we can also guess that more than one person will end up making use of this, & we have a serious health issue on our hands.

Okay, the other thing:

Since this thread got going, I've noticed that here on the CM fora there are all kinds of offense taken at pretty mellow stuff -- specifically lately there's been an abundance of comments about CM's new, more liberal pic policy, specifically the ever-unpopular dick pics are widely remarked to be 'offensive' . . . . . & there's also a curious thing about people avoiding using swear words that can be seen all over the place, & even the occasional offense taken at the use of swears.

If a bunch of kinksters get offended by simple nudity & swear words, I'm at a loss why we expect 'vanilla' persons to be more tolerant of more extreme (from a vanilla perspective) behaviors than what level of tolerance we practice amongst ourselves . . .. .

Jus' noticin' with some amusement . . . . .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 7/15/2009 11:13:57 AM >

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 12:54:19 PM

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See perfect example. I prefer not to see dicks, I think they are ugly and disgusting. Well, thank you to the powers that be, I have my profile tweaked so that no dicks appear on my screen. How cool is that?!?!

I also don't think much of female naked bits being on display for all the world to see. Now, I don't find them appearing on my computer screen offensive, but I would think more than twice about getting involved with a woman that would post them of herself.

Neither case am I trying to get someone else to conform to my personal stuff, I am simply keeping their stuff, out of my personal space.

Pretty simple really.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 1:00:54 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Nihilus, there are reasons other than taking offense why depositing feces on a street is illegal: disease transmission. There was a time when human waste was dumped onto city streets (mostly by way of emptying slop buckets) & we stopped doing that, & allowing it, because it's a serious disease risk. Cholera, typhoid / typhus, & polio are just a few examples of serious infectious illnesses transmitted thru feces. So, if we postulate a world in which it's legally acceptable to shit on the street, we can also guess that more than one person will end up making use of this, & we have a serious health issue on our hands.

Win. I hadn't thought of that physiological danger. A perfectly sensible basis on which to curtail a public act.

What if they have someone behind them with a brush, dustpan and "poop bag", though? *strains to keep from chuckling at the visual*

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 1:02:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have my profile tweaked so that no dicks appear on my screen.

Oops.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/15/2009 1:03:16 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 1:22:06 PM

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

As to children and BDSM? That's the parent's job, not mine or anybody else's. Let them police what their offspring are exposed to. It's their duty and responsibility. Not to say I advocate poor judgment, but I refuse to curtail my rights or anyone else's because parents are too lazy or incompetent to exercise good parenting skills.

Bella

Want to explain your point further? Im just incredibly curious as to the point YOU think your rights begin and mine as a parent ends.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Bella1965)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 1:38:11 PM

Posts: 4036
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

As to children and BDSM? That's the parent's job, not mine or anybody else's. Let them police what their offspring are exposed to. It's their duty and responsibility. Not to say I advocate poor judgment, but I refuse to curtail my rights or anyone else's because parents are too lazy or incompetent to exercise good parenting skills.

Bella

Want to explain your point further? Im just incredibly curious as to the point YOU think your rights begin and mine as a parent ends.

I suspect she's aluding to a point similar to what I wrote here:

quote:

Besides, aren't we big on personal responsibility here? When does the responsibility of the parent to accurately assess what could happen in a public setting that would (phantom) harm their child suddenly get preempted by the general public's supposed responsibility to know exactly what moral construct that specific parent is so as not to violate any ethical preferences/biases?

There is no "parental right" of expecting the general public to magically divine what an individual parent specifically thinks is "appropriate". It's flatly illogical.

The responsibility lies with the parent to enforce their own moral compass and to hide or expose the child accordingly based on it, not for the rest of the world to fall in step with it.

The funny thing is that this topic is likely mostly irrelevant because young children are still in a developmental stage where they don't automatically attach all this morality value onto acts. They just are what they are. It's only the parents essentially saying: "my child is witnessing something that, if s/he grows up with the exact ethical structure I want him/her to, s/he would find that act publicly unacceptable."

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:04:44 PM

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Odd how we have come full circle. On one hand, parents are being told they are too lenient, they arent parenting, they arent taking control. on the other, they are now being told that their own morality isnt what they should be teaching children because that morality doesnt fit in with what every other person deems to be their own moral value. In the privacy of my own home, I certainly can control what is seen and what isnt. In the home of another, not so much, but, if I find something objectable, I dont have to go back, nor would I. In public... hmmm... extremely grey area. I dont have the right to tell anyone what they can do with their rights. I do have the right to not have my child subjected to things I find distasteful, as long as the law backs me up.

Unless they have sneaked in law changes, public nudity is still against the law. Public sex is a no no. Public exposure is yet another. Now what i may consider to be indecent exposure, another may not. My child is 23, so the point of me being responsible for his upbringing and moral code is now past.. thank god. At the time, i would not have taken him to a nude beach. you can take yours, if you wish, i decided not too. But i did take him to exhibits of the human body. I did not censure his viewing of art work. I would not have taken him to a bdsm gathering.

At age 5, he asked me what a condom was. his sex education began then, at his pace. if he had questions, we talked, until he had decided he had heard enough. but he was my child. for me to have done that with someone elses chaild, and i would have ended up in jail more than likely.

The breast feeding of a child is one of the most natural, and beautiful, things to behold. The viewing of a naked body is just as natural, in the proper setting. The objectification of humans isnt. some of us may enjoy it. some of us may revel in it. if my son decided he does as well, i would not hold that against him. but, as a mother, i could not in good conscious teach him that that was the norm for people, because its not what society considers normal. some people love the shock value. when do we draw the line with children. when bobby is tying a rope around suzie's neck on the play ground and yelling at her "bark bitch?" children emulate what they see.

i saw people saying how parents should take responsibility. does that responsibility include forcing our children to stay indoors incase others decide to parade around in public .. naked... leashed.. whatever...for the thrill of being seen? I always thought the lifestyle was extremely protective of the little ones. I agree, to hell with the rest. I am an adult, and if i cant handle seeing two adults fucking in a park, i need to stay inside myself. by myself, i would make the decision to turn around and walk away. but when you thrust that view into a child's line of sight, and do nothing but walk away with an explanation of.. thats not how people should act...

as i said, children often duplicate what they see. especially when they know its upsetting. so, no, you dont have to curtail what you do in public. you can drop your pants and do your business. you can rip off your shirts and let the jugs fly. but, what you dont have the right to do is to

1) tell me how to raise my child
2) to complain when others object to what they are seeing in a public venue
3) to subject others to YOUR view of morality
4) to bitch and moan about the "blue hairs" and their morals
5) to cry and whine when the cops show up

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:04:57 PM

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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*WARNING*

The following is potentially gross & offensive.

Okay, Nihilus, I'll see you one nit-picky weirdness & raise you some graphic particularities.

Poop is frequently soft, wet. A brush is gonna not eliminate the germ factor.

& we do have a 'slave' that efficiently removes our waste products in a reasonably sanitary manner, takes them away to be processed & have the harms reduced: the toilet attached to a septic system, a sanitary sewage system, or similar.

Given how many assholes there are in the world, the level of public defecation could require an army of 'dookie servants' armed with buckets & mops & disinfectants, if shitting in public was a-okay . . . . .

Ah. & the disease-carrying mechanism is also at the heart of why public urination or non-toilet urination is problematic -- hepatitis is what immediately springs to mind as something that can be conveyed via urine.

Oh. & technically, if you are smelling shit, there are literally little molecules of shit aerosalized & touching the mucosa in one's nose to produce that sensation of 'smelling' . . . . . . Not saying it's possible to get a disease that way, just like to point out that reality . . . . .

& *smirkles* . . . . How many points does it take to get a 'win'?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Win. I hadn't thought of that physiological danger. A perfectly sensible basis on which to curtail a public act.

What if they have someone behind them with a brush, dustpan and "poop bag", though? *strains to keep from chuckling at the visual*

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:12:20 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

Odd how we have come full circle. On one hand, parents are being told they are too lenient, they arent parenting, they arent taking control. on the other, they are now being told that their own morality isnt what they should be teaching children because that morality doesnt fit in with what every other person deems to be their own moral value.

Sorry, tazz, but that wasn't what was said AT ALL. In fact, Nihilus made a specific point of essentially saying that teaching one's offspring about moral values is -strictly- up to the parent, and that parent shouldn't expect society to do it for them, or be surprised when the rest of society doesn't share their moral compass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

The responsibility lies with the parent to enforce their own moral compass and to hide or expose the child accordingly based on it, not for the rest of the world to fall in step with it.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:17:02 PM

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That was a general post to the feelings on the boards, Calla. Not everyone stated all those things. But the general message is... suck it up, parents.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:21:15 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

& *smirkles* . . . . How many points does it take to get a 'win'?

Ick.

Was that really necessary? Can I just give you 20 points to not put any more pictures in my head, particularly as I'm about to head off to work?

*waves to Calla on the way out*

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:40:10 PM

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Am I the only one who would love to see these two ladies fight, in real life?

... deeply, deeply ashamed of myself for hijacking this meaningful and productive thread.

REDMAGIC!

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:41:11 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

As to children and BDSM? That's the parent's job, not mine or anybody else's. Let them police what their offspring are exposed to. It's their duty and responsibility. Not to say I advocate poor judgment, but I refuse to curtail my rights or anyone else's because parents are too lazy or incompetent to exercise good parenting skills.

Bella

Want to explain your point further? Im just incredibly curious as to the point YOU think your rights begin and mine as a parent ends.

I am not sure I understand the point either. I certainly agree that it is the parent's responsibility to manage their offspring and what they are exposed to in areas that they can control. I don't think it is up to a parent to have to, for instance, remove a child from a public park because a couple have decided to have naked sex. Of course everyone has rights but along with those rights comes individual responsibility.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:41:18 PM

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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I was waiting for that!!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:45:06 PM

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline

Hey, you were warned. I did my due diligence.

Were you offended? Given the context of this thread I am 'twooly' amused, for the rest of my day.

(& I'm gonna pay the price for that icky-detailed post, the hordes of toilet-types are now perving my profile en masse . . . . . . & despite the impression I've probably given, I'm not into that, I'm into history. Especially the history of icky subjects like how women dealt with menstruation, how people engaged in hygiene & self-care, what kinda underwear people have worn, that sorta thing. Um, the history of intimate behavior, I guess you could say . . . . . lol)

& if you give me 20 points under the circumstances outlined below, isn't that rewarding 'bad' behavior?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Ick.

Was that really necessary? Can I just give you 20 points to not put any more pictures in my head, particularly as I'm about to head off to work?

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Public BDSM - should we tolerate it? - 7/15/2009 2:50:45 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

The following is potentially gross & offensive.

Okay, Nihilus, I'll see you one nit-picky weirdness & raise you some graphic particularities.

Poop is frequently soft, wet. A brush is gonna not eliminate the germ factor.

& we do have a 'slave' that efficiently removes our waste products in a reasonably sanitary manner, takes them away to be processed & have the harms reduced: the toilet attached to a septic system, a sanitary sewage system, or similar.

Given how many assholes there are in the world, the level of public defecation could require an army of 'dookie servants' armed with buckets & mops & disinfectants, if shitting in public was a-okay . . . . .

Ah. & the disease-carrying mechanism is also at the heart of why public urination or non-toilet urination is problematic -- hepatitis is what immediately springs to mind as something that can be conveyed via urine.

Oh. & technically, if you are smelling shit, there are literally little molecules of shit aerosalized & touching the mucosa in one's nose to produce that sensation of 'smelling' . . . . . . Not saying it's possible to get a disease that way, just like to point out that reality . . . . .

& *smirkles* . . . . How many points does it take to get a 'win'?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Win. I hadn't thought of that physiological danger. A perfectly sensible basis on which to curtail a public act.

What if they have someone behind them with a brush, dustpan and "poop bag", though? *strains to keep from chuckling at the visual*

Eww... just EWWWW! Potty-mouth~

(Sorry... couldn't resist)

DC

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to DemonKia)

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