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"I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 7:56:24 AM

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From: St George Utah
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I made new friends here in this Religious Mormon Mecca.

They moved in above us.

They are like us......... Kinda.

Last Night after listening to them tell us about their Non-Dynamic (Too long a story and not quite on point for the story so I'll just leave it out for now) she made very strong willed comments and then said "You're talking to a submissive"

Now this wouldn't be so strange expect for the fact that her manners, her words, and the relationship between them most obviously shows her as being the Dominant side of the relationship.

She did not Identify as a Switch she Identified as a Sub.

Have you ever come across the person who likes the idea of what a sub means to them but thier actions don't quite gel with the Idea of a Power Dynamic as we most often see them represented.

If I were to see them at a munch I would have pegged her a Domme and him her loving a dedicated submissive but I am informed it is actually the other way around.

What do you think about this situation?

Have you ever come across it before?

Do you think it's just Fantasy Bullshit or do you think there is a Valid Power Dynamic in which she is submissive and yet very dominating in the relationship?

Steel

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 7/15/2009 7:58:55 AM >

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RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 8:00:35 AM

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Joined: 6/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I made new friends here in this Religious Mormon Mecca.

They moved in above us.

They are like us......... Kinda.

Last Night after listening to them tell us about their Non-Dynamic (Too long a story and not quite on point for the story so I'll just leave it out for now) she made very strong willed comments and then said "You're talking to a submissive"

Now this wouldn't be so strange expect for the fact that her manners, her words, and the relationship between them most obviously shows her as being the Dominant side of the relationship.

She did not Identify as a Switch she Identified as a Sub.

Have you ever come across the person who likes the idea of what a sub means to them but thier actions don't quite gel with the Idea of a Power Dynamic as we most often see them represented.

If I were to see them at a munch I would have pegged her a Domme and him her loving a dedicated submissive but I am informed it is actually the other way around.

What do you think about this situation?

Have you ever come across it before?

Do you think it's just Fantasy Bullshit or do you think there is a Valid Power Dynamic in which she is submissive and yet very dominating in the relationship?

Steel

Ha. i've seen it alot at many munches - a "sub" running everything and the "dom" reacting. i think people can have ideas of what sounds fun etc. and don't realize that we can pretend anything, but we can only be who we are.

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 8:06:36 AM

CreativeDominant

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I made new friends here in this Religious Mormon Mecca.

They moved in above us.

They are like us......... Kinda.

Last Night after listening to them tell us about their Non-Dynamic (Too long a story and not quite on point for the story so I'll just leave it out for now) she made very strong willed comments and then said "You're talking to a submissive"

Now this wouldn't be so strange expect for the fact that her manners, her words, and the relationship between them most obviously shows her as being the Dominant side of the relationship.

She did not Identify as a Switch she Identified as a Sub.

Have you ever come across the person who likes the idea of what a sub means to them but thier actions don't quite gel with the Idea of a Power Dynamic as we most often see them represented.

If I were to see them at a munch I would have pegged her a Domme and him her loving a dedicated submissive but I am informed it is actually the other way around.

What do you think about this situation?

Have you ever come across it before?

Do you think it's just Fantasy Bullshit or do you think there is a Valid Power Dynamic in which she is submissive and yet very dominating in the relationship?

Steel

I have seen it. I admire submissives who demonstrate that dominance in their everyday life with their work, their capabilities in getting things done, their children even but not when they apply it to their dominant. They can call themselves submissive even when they are trying to run the dynamic and I will not argue with them...I just will not be with them. Submission, to me, means yielding of their will to me...not the other way around.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 8:23:55 AM

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I have a friend that in everyday life is very Dominant and independent, but she said that her submissiveness comes out in the bedroom. I wonder if that might be what this gal is like? I am getting a little more assertive in my everyday life with other people, i.e, making sure they respect my boundaries and don't "run me over," but with Sir I'm still very submissive.

~edited for spelling~

< Message edited by sweetsub1957 -- 7/15/2009 8:25:34 AM >

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 8:27:28 AM

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Eh, Steel, remember I'm from behind the Zion curtain too and based on her response, I'd have to wonder if there was some mormon baloney in the background where no matter what, the man is supposed to be the Dominant and leader while the wife is submissive and supportive to the husband. In other words, based on what you described, I'd call "bullshit'.

If I pulled that kind of stunt with Lumus, I wouldn't be sitting for a week, if then. He would make His displeasure known so fast, my head would be spinning. It sounds like this woman has it in her brain that women are SUPPOSED to be submissive and men are SUPPOSED to be dominant and that's that, end of story for her. Reality can be a lot different than what people assume or fantasize about. Depending on my mood, if someone did what she did, in voicing strong opinions and then stating that I'm talking to a submissive, I'd probably look at her and say "so? Who cares, are you my submissive?" or maybe "So what, so am I, big fat deal." (Ok, so I get a little snarky at times, like that's a big surprise to anyone who knows me....)

Ya know, a thought just struck me..... any possibility she was trying to do a one-upmanship thing, along the lines of trying to prove that she's more weal and twue? It sounds sorta like it, but then I wasn't there to hear the tone of her voice..... *shrugs*

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 8:32:12 AM

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Perhaps their dynamic at home is different from what you saw.
Take me for instance. I run a munch and am very used to making things happen (even if it is only to get things started). A lot of people assume I am dominant, except those men to whom I have loved or been in a relationship with for a long time. To those men I am submissive, I react as a submissive if they were to bring on that response in me. The x only had to say "Andrea" to get me to stop in mid track and listen. But he was perfectly fine knowing that I can handle being in charge of day to day things.

I have an "on" persona, and a relaxed one. My public face is "on" because it has to be, if it were not I would be too scared to look up. It is an act I developed from an early age to get me out the door, and into life, but it is not me. It is not easy to be "on", but I do it well enough that most people around believe I am the image I present. Any of my x's could tell you it does not take much to get me to lower my eyes, stop what I am doing, and be the me I can only be when they bring me back to my relaxed state.
I could not live happily if I always had to be on.
Kyst

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 8:35:56 AM

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~Fast Reply~
Missokyst, you more precisely say what I was trying to say. Thank you!

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Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:00:48 AM

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This appears to be an iceburg! One sees the tip but what remains hidden from view is the main part of a huge essence.

Fantasy/reality are what's in play here. Walking into anothers F/r play space/life can be confusing/misleading..... If you like the people, continue to explore and learn. If not, you know where the exit is.

Enjoy.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:21:52 AM

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From: Apple County NY
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You can't judge what they are like in private because you being there means they aren't interacting privately but in public. Some people are very different in private from in public.

Beyond that, if he's laid back and fine with her taking over the conversation, she could still be submissive to him. You don't know them well enough.

I remember a discussion on another site years ago about subs deciding what to cook, and one dominant's response was that he had spent twenty years in the military and would eat anything, and had no taste buds left to speak of. The fact that everyone else said that if the sub picked the dinner or the restaurant then the dom wasn't in charge didn't matter to him. Other people would view her saying "tonight we're going to the seafood place" to mean that she was the domme, but the truth of the matter was far different.

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RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:22:37 AM

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This sort of makes me think of the sub/slaves who claim it takes someone very very strong to make them submit, because they themselves are very very strong. I have to wonder are they really that over the top strong or are they really not submissive but want the kink that goes along with it. After all isn't wanting to please and obey part of being submissive, and if your desire to be stronger willed than the other person cancels that out, are you really submissive?

Frankly I've seen quite a few brats who are submissive DAMMIT! LOL

~Lashra

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:30:46 AM

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quote:

I admire submissives who demonstrate that dominance in their everyday life with their work, their capabilities in getting things done, their children even

i have the feeling there are a lot of subs like this...more than you would think

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RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:42:43 AM

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I will firmly disagree with this. Over the 10 or so years I have run groups I can count on one hand how many men who made me feel submissive. And it was not that they were strong it was that they were confident they could inspire my submission. There have been others, the knuckle dragging, you woman me boss, type that make my hackles rise.
I am relatively successful in life. Any man who to whom I have become submissive was my match or over, and it was that which inspires me to follow.
Wanting to please and submit is part of that. But some people, at least my dominants were never cuckolded by the fact I am capable and not afraid to show it. Behind closed doors OR at his will was another matter entirely. And in my opinion if the dominant is comfortable with the face his (generic label) submissive shows, shouldn't that be the only thing that counts?
Brat..? some men like that.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

This sort of makes me think of the sub/slaves who claim it takes someone very very strong to make them submit, because they themselves are very very strong. I have to wonder are they really that over the top strong or are they really not submissive but want the kink that goes along with it. After all isn't wanting to please and obey part of being submissive, and if your desire to be stronger willed than the other person cancels that out, are you really submissive?

Frankly I've seen quite a few brats who are submissive DAMMIT! LOL

~Lashra

(in reply to Lashra)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:45:14 AM

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I observe that in my experience the best subs are capable intelligent funny (all those positive DOING maybe even leading words) achievers. Personally that makes their submission all the better.

(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:48:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I have seen it. I admire submissives who demonstrate that dominance in their everyday life with their work, their capabilities in getting things done, their children even but not when they apply it to their dominant.

I don't know about the phrasing here. What you are describing here is "competence" not "dominance".

Strangely, I think this is the issue with much of the innards of this topic we're discussing.

People will tend to criticize themselves and their submission as still inherently negative if the general prsumption is that competence and submissiveness cannot exist in unison.

And then, other people will start criticizing other subs/slaves who aren't concerned with "dominance" because the criticizer mistakenly presumes they are too 'weak' in their submission because of not choosing to force that aura of "dominance".

Ironically, subs who have an emotional fixation on the need to display "dominance" (because they cannot divorce the idea of the word as synonymous to competence) are less competent as being genuinely submissive...as in, expecting someone to act as they say they are...which brings us right back to Steel's point.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/15/2009 9:49:15 AM >

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:49:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

This sort of makes me think of the sub/slaves who claim it takes someone very very strong to make them submit, because they themselves are very very strong. I have to wonder are they really that over the top strong or are they really not submissive but want the kink that goes along with it. After all isn't wanting to please and obey part of being submissive, and if your desire to be stronger willed than the other person cancels that out, are you really submissive?

Frankly I've seen quite a few brats who are submissive DAMMIT! LOL

~Lashra

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I do understand the "strong personality sub". I am one. Here's my take on it. Yes, I am genuinely submissive. Genuinely, but not generally.
Once I have submitted to a man, it's a done deal. I do "want to please and obey", for that one man. There isn't some kind of ongoing power struggle, or constant attempts to top from the bottom, or any of that kind of thing that one might think would be going on.
I do not want to be stronger willed than a man, and therefore, I choose a dom that fits in within that framework. That man has to be superior to me in intelligence, wisdom, and strength of character. Why would I challenge such a man? Once I see he is indeed superior in those regards, I am happy to recognize them as such, and I respect him deeply.
It's just that my "on" personality that I have to use to get thru my day to day dealings with clients, etc., is a necessary evil. But at the end of the day, I want nothing more than to hand over the leash to someone who knows exactly what to do with it.
j

(in reply to Lashra)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:49:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Now this wouldn't be so strange expect for the fact that her manners, her words, and the relationship between them most obviously shows her as being the Dominant side of the relationship.

There could be any number of reasons why she came off as dominant in this particular situation. Off the top of my head, maybe he's shy in social situations, so she "serves" him by being the one to step up to the plate and hold down the fort when guests are visiting.

I'd be curious to know what type of words or actions or manner did you witness that you interpreted as her being dominant? Can you give a couple of specific examples of something she said or did??

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 9:57:04 AM

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

This sort of makes me think of the sub/slaves who claim it takes someone very very strong to make them submit, because they themselves are very very strong. I have to wonder are they really that over the top strong or are they really not submissive but want the kink that goes along with it. After all isn't wanting to please and obey part of being submissive, and if your desire to be stronger willed than the other person cancels that out, are you really submissive?

Frankly I've seen quite a few brats who are submissive DAMMIT! LOL

~Lashra

This hits on a funny human habit: the desire to be or find the exception in our romantic lives.

A lot of women like the "bad boy" that they are able to harness and tame into their own "good man".
A lot of men want the sexually aggressive woman who then becomes conveniently chaste and 'proper' once with him.

It builds the human ego to think we are the special one that has made someone change in a way they normally would not just to be with us.

Also, some subs and Dom(me)s have their dynamic and respective role reinforced by a continuous rollercoasters of events that requires the Dom(me) to exert hir dominance and for the sub to feel put in hir place...and then there are some dub and Dom(me)s who have it reinforced by finding a role-balance where there is no need for these 'altercations' because both have their roles reinforced by the serenity of the role matching well (the sub being happily obedient and the Dom(me) leading the way).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/15/2009 9:58:51 AM >

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(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: "I'm Submissive DAMNIT!!!" - 7/15/2009 10:01:02 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

This sort of makes me think of the sub/slaves who claim it takes someone very very strong to make them submit, because they themselves are very very strong. I have to wonder are they really that over the top strong or are they really not submissive but want the kink that goes along with it. After all isn't wanting to please and obey part of being submissive, and if your desire to be stronger willed than the other person cancels that out, are you really submissive?

Frankly I've seen quite a few brats who are submissive DAMMIT! LOL

~Lashra

Many people think they have to *be a submissive* if they want or desire a D/s relationship style. You don't have to. You DO have to accept, fully, that YOU CHOSE IT, though.....and that goes for both.

Being strong-willed and NOT submissive hasn't stopped me being the *submissive* part of a D/s relationship for many years.

It's probably a bit more stormy than some relationships but it's worked well for a very long time.

So many people have *feelings* of one sort or the other, regarding D/s, read up on it and then try to contort all the bits about themselves that don't fit the oft trotted out pattern or characteristics.

agirl

(in reply to Lashra)

a voice of reason - 7/15/2009 10:11:44 AM

vasha

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im so not going to jump on that bandwaggon. things are most often not what they appear. i can easily see the woman being passionate about her religion and appearing dominant because of it... regardless of other factors that WE just dont know.

to much is unfilled in there.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: a voice of reason - 7/15/2009 10:51:45 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I agree. I had someone on here tell me I didn't sound submissive, because I spoke my mind, was forth right, and told it like it was and didn't play games or bullshit, said what I meant and meant whatI said, was clear in just what I meant, and I replied with and just what does a submissive sound like? They didn't have a reply for that.

For us personally Daddy likes me to speak my mind say it like it is and pull no punches and he's proud that I do. He would never expect me to be meek or docil or play word games and not say what I mean or not speak up when I feel there's a need to. because it's not who I am. I am quite ok with people thinking what they want though, because Daddy and I know what our relationship is or is not, and we don't need other people's validations to know it and be happy with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vasha

im so not going to jump on that bandwaggon. things are most often not what they appear. i can easily see the woman being passionate about her religion and appearing dominant because of it... regardless of other factors that WE just dont know.

to much is unfilled in there.

(in reply to vasha)

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